Could any Canadian city become a 'First Nations Atlanta'?

[hipster duck]

Atlanta is sort of known as a city with a sizable black middle class, and a city where blacks have historically held more political power and had deeper ties to the business community than most other American cities in the north or south. This Wikipedia article actually is a pretty good primer on why that might be the case. Now, that's not to say that black Atlantans are better off than white Atlantans or that black Atlantans don't face a disproportionate amount of social problems. Far from it. But if I were black and looking for a metro to raise my family, Atlanta would probably be high up on the list. Even as a non-black person I felt this when I went on a business trip there once.

This led me to wonder whether a Canadian city could emerge as a First Nations mecca with a healthy, decent-sized Aboriginal middle class and institutions. Granted, there are fewer FN as a percent of the Canadian population than blacks in the US. Also, black Americans across the US have more common cultural and ancestral ties than FN groups, all of whom are very different from one another historically. Finally, black culture and a black "sense of self" has always been more on most Americans' (of all races) consciousness, while First Nations culture - for various reasons, including the sad fact that it was mostly exterminated up until very recently - has only begun to reemerge.

I was thinking that any number of cities - Vancouver, Winnipeg, one of the Alberta cities, and even Ottawa or Toronto - could be the one, but we're not there yet, and each city has its pros and cons to forming a healthy Aboriginal middle class.

But I'd be interested to know the thoughts of people who may know a little more about this subject than I do, or who live in places with a large FN population (like the prairies).

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Atlanta is sort of known as a city with a sizable black middle class, and a city where blacks have historically held more political power and had deeper ties to the business community than most other American cities in the north or south. This Wikipedia article actually is a pretty good primer on why that might be the case. Now, that's not to say that black Atlantans are better off than white Atlantans or that black Atlantans don't face a disproportionate amount of social problems. Far from it. But if I were black and looking for a metro to raise my family, Atlanta would probably be high up on the list. Even as a non-black person I felt this when I went on a business trip there once.

This led me to wonder whether a Canadian city could emerge as a First Nations mecca with a healthy, decent-sized Aboriginal middle class and institutions. Granted, there are fewer FN as a percent of the Canadian population than blacks in the US. Also, black Americans across the US have more common cultural and ancestral ties than FN groups, all of whom are very different from one another historically. Finally, black culture and a black "sense of self" has always been more on most Americans' (of all races) consciousness, while First Nations culture - for various reasons, including the sad fact that it was mostly exterminated up until very recently - has only begun to reemerge.

I was thinking that any number of cities - Vancouver, Winnipeg, one of the Alberta cities, and even Ottawa or Toronto - could be the one, but we're not there yet, and each city has its pros and cons to forming a healthy Aboriginal middle class.

But I'd be interested to know the thoughts of people who may know a little more about this subject than I do, or who live in places with a large FN population (like the prairies).

Blacks consist of 32% of the population of metro ATL. I would be shocked if there is a city in canada that has 5% first nations population. On another note, Atlanta is a great city with a great vibe. It's a big city but not land locked like most major U.S. cities. I go there for business 3-4 times a year and love it.

[vid]

Thunder Bay, despite its issues with racism, does have a decent sized First Nations middle class, and a well-educated First Nations community. There isn't as much presence of First Nations people in local politics right now but the city government itself is very supportive of them (usually) and in the next election I think that could start to change.

Winnipeg is pretty similar, but they have other major ethnic minorities there, while all Thunder Bay has is its native people, so they've got a bit more influence over things here because they're competing with fewer voices. They're also the city's sole growing demographic.

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Blacks consist of 32% of the population of metro ATL. I would be shocked if there is a city in canada that has 5% first nations population. On another note, Atlanta is a great city with a great vibe. It's a big city but not land locked like most major U.S. cities. I go there for business 3-4 times a year and love it.

Thunder Bay is 12.8% aboriginal. This is excluding the reserve across the river from the city, which has an additional 1,000 people.

Winnipeg is 12.2% aboriginal.
Saskatoon is 11.3% aboriginal.
Edmonton is 5.5% aboriginal.

Shocked?

Toronto is 0.9% aboriginal. Vancouver is 2.2% aboriginal. Calgary is 2.9% aboriginal. If you only go to those big cities, then you might get the impression there aren't many indigenous people in cities in Canada. And this is a fairly recent development. In 1996, Thunder Bay was only 5.6% aboriginal.

[ssiguy]

Blacks in the US have a quite a unique and collective culture which is not the case of FN in Canada. Natives in Canada make up a lot of different nations with different culture, demographics, economic opportunities, social values and priorities, as well as being highly geographically dispersed. Many FN communities have nothing in common except the fact that they are run by the same federal Native laws.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by vid

Calgary is 2.9% aboriginal.

I was surprised to learn that Ottawa has the same % of aboriginals as Calgary.

I think Ottawa might be a dark horse in fostering a successful integrated and wealthy First Nation enclave and sustainable community. If First Nations begin to have a more intertwined relationship with the Federal government, and their public job offers swell in ranks with cushy pensions and well paid positions, it could get the ball rolling into a broader upper middle class entrenchment in Ottawa.

[saffronleaf]

Winnipeg. In the Canadian scheme of things, Winnipeg is a major metropolitan area with about 800,000 people. 12.2% of the people in the metropolitan area are indigenous peoples. I haven't lived in Winnipeg, but it feels like they have a strong presence.

vid is correct though, Thunder Bay has a greater percentage of indigenous peoples and they are not at risk of being drowned out by competing groups. The only thing holding back Thunder Bay IMO is that it is not one of the major metropolitan areas of Canada, like Winnipeg is or like how Atlanta is in the US. But Thunder Bay has all the tools to get there and hopefully it does.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Blacks in the US have a quite a unique and collective culture which is not the case of FN in Canada. Natives in Canada make up a lot of different nations with different culture, demographics, economic opportunities, social values and priorities, as well as being highly geographically dispersed. Many FN communities have nothing in common except the fact that they are run by the same federal Native laws.

Black Americans aren't culturally homogeneous either. Although it's true that most African Americans are more likely to share collective roots in colonial America and the legacy of slavery rather than be descended from separate distinct waves of migration (the way white Americans, Hispanic Americans or Asian Americans are), there's still tremendous variability in their cultures.

On the eastern seaboard of the US, in places like NYC and Miami you have a decent Afro-Caribbean influence from places like Jamaica. One in three black Americans is foreign born in metro Miami, 28% in NYC's metro and 15% for Washington DC. In Minneapolis, there's a sizeable Somali-American population. Nationwide, just under 10% of the black population is foreign-born (but that's not counting their native-born children).

Even among native-born African Americans you have distinct cultures.
For example, the Gullah people of South Carolina and Georgia still speak a distinct creole language and have carried more West African elements than most native-born communities, though their population is small compared to the population as a whole. There's also distinctive cultures in Louisiana.

Additionally, among native-born black Americans, you have a huge range of peoples' experiences going from those who have "assimilated" to white American culture to those who have much more distinctive African American culture. Someone who's the only black family in a small town in Oregon might have a totally different experience of being black in America than someone living in Atlanta among other blacks their entire life, among the native born let alone the immigrant communities.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I'd wager either Thunder Bay, or Winnipeg.

[Docere]

Winnipeg really seems to be the only one when it comes to visiblity and critical mass.

[niwell]

Thunder Bay or Winnipeg IMO.

RE: Ottawa, there is a sizeable Inuit population in the city as well, which don't associate much with First Nations from "southern Canada".

[MolsonExport]

Atlanta is most certainly land locked.

Yes, I have been there several times. Can't say I liked it very much, aside from the Civil Rights Museum (which was first rate).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Atlanta is most certainly land locked.

I believe Atlanta's seaport is about on par with Montreal's and Edmonton's.

[lio45]

About the topic at hand, first off they would have to be willing to move to a given city to start some sort of snowballing effect like what's happened for Atlanta.

Saskatoon would be a good candidate -- not too big already (unlike Wpg), and geographically central so it could pull people from BC, Edmonton, NWT, Winnipeg and Thunder Bay. It could easily be half-aboriginal if there was a concerted effort.

[vid]

Here's an idea: what if all of the Highway 17/Yellowhead corridor cities become First Nations Atlantas?

[Metro-One]

Surprised no one has suggested the North, particularly the NWT (Yellowknife) and Nunavut.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by lio45

I believe Atlanta's seaport is about on par with Montreal's and Edmonton's.

???

Montreal actually has a seaport.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by niwell

RE: Ottawa, there is a sizeable Inuit population in the city as well, which don't associate much with First Nations from "southern Canada".

True. Both Ottawa and to a lesser extent Gatineau have a sizeable Inuit population. I suspect that most work for the federal government (Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada, which is located in Gatineau). For those who don't work for the government and who want to experience life in a major city in the South/go to university or college, the fact that the Ottawa airport provides most of the connections with the Arctic is probably regarded as very convenient.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Surprised no one has suggested the North, particularly the NWT (Yellowknife) and Nunavut.

Iqaluit and Goose Bay, especially the former, are substantially Indigenous, especially Inuit.

And Prince Alberta SK is about 40% Indigenous.

But a "First Nations Atlanta" suggests a bigger city. In the Canadian context, a city of at least a few hundred thousand. Here's an interesting infographic. If I'm eyeballing it correctly, Winnipeg and Saskatoon (and Thunder Bay, not on this graphic) are around ten percent Indigenous, and I think the proportion is growing fastest in Winnipeg.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by geotag277

I was surprised to learn that Ottawa has the same % of aboriginals as Calgary.

I think Ottawa might be a dark horse in fostering a successful integrated and wealthy First Nation enclave and sustainable community. If First Nations begin to have a more intertwined relationship with the Federal government, and their public job offers swell in ranks with cushy pensions and well paid positions, it could get the ball rolling into a broader upper middle class entrenchment in Ottawa.

Not to nitpick but I wouldn't call it an "enclave" because that suggests a geographic concentration in a specific area of the metro. Which is not the case in Ottawa.

I agree with the rest though. With the caveat that as always we're talking about highly disparate groups and other than having First Nations status and having been mistreated historically, there is little in common between a Haida from the west coast and an Innu from Quebec's north shore.

Of course, in some cases perhaps those two factors are sufficient to give them a common purpose for certain things at least.

Also, the growing aboriginal "civil society" that we are seeing in Canada (evidenced by stuff like APTN, etc.) is arguably leading to a growing cultural commonality across these disparate groups.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Black Americans aren't culturally homogeneous either. Although it's true that most African Americans are more likely to share collective roots in colonial America and the legacy of slavery rather than be descended from separate distinct waves of migration (the way white Americans, Hispanic Americans or Asian Americans are), there's still tremendous variability in their cultures.

On the eastern seaboard of the US, in places like NYC and Miami you have a decent Afro-Caribbean influence from places like Jamaica. One in three black Americans is foreign born in metro Miami, 28% in NYC's metro and 15% for Washington DC. In Minneapolis, there's a sizeable Somali-American population. Nationwide, just under 10% of the black population is foreign-born (but that's not counting their native-born children).

Even among native-born African Americans you have distinct cultures.
For example, the Gullah people of South Carolina and Georgia still speak a distinct creole language and have carried more West African elements than most native-born communities, though their population is small compared to the population as a whole. There's also distinctive cultures in Louisiana.

Additionally, among native-born black Americans, you have a huge range of peoples' experiences going from those who have "assimilated" to white American culture to those who have much more distinctive African American culture. Someone who's the only black family in a small town in Oregon might have a totally different experience of being black in America than someone living in Atlanta among other blacks their entire life, among the native born let alone the immigrant communities.

They may not be totally homogenous (what group is?) but African-Americans most definitely have more things in common across the country and their demographic subgroups than Indigenous Canadians do. By a *far* measure.

Almost all people of African or Afro-Caribbean origins who move to the U.S. eventually dovetail towards a significant proportion of the existing homegrown African-American culture. (I.e. even if they may reject stuff like gangsta culture and ebonics, their kids are almost never indifferent to other aspects of it like basketball, music, fashion, etc.)