The Great Canadian Surname Thread

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Looking back at my posts I think I may have given away more clues than I thought I had... so you're gonna have to work for it, guys!

The thing is, with a decade's worth of tidbits about you here and there, I'm pretty sure a skilled investigator with unlimited free time would find out who you are.

MonctonRad I expect is among the twelve easiest to figure out... from PEI, American mother, his age, his profession, and more. No doubt he's among your SSP identity "hunt trophies".

I expect that I'm still anonymous to most people here, except Acajack, and a few exceptions - the three main Sherbrooke forumers plus SignalHillHiker who basically "knows" (he was curious to see the building where I lived, and I figured it was fair enough, since I already knew his exact address - I said go for it when he asked us SSPers with real estate experience whether he should buy his current St. John's hen cage).

Speaking of which, I know of at least one internet forum that forces users to register using their full first and last names, and that is what serves as their screen name. Let me tell you, the place is abnormally civil by internet forum standards!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

The thing is, with a decade's worth of tidbits about you here and there, I'm pretty sure a skilled investigator with unlimited free time would find out who you are.

MonctonRad I expect is among the twelve easiest to figure out... from PEI, American mother, his age, his profession, and more. No doubt he's among your SSP identity "hunt trophies".

I expect that I'm still anonymous to most people here, except Acajack, and a few exceptions - the three main Sherbrooke forumers plus SignalHillHiker who basically "knows" (he was curious to see the building where I lived, and I figured it was fair enough, since I already knew his exact address - I said go for it when he asked us SSPers with real estate experience whether he should buy his current St. John's hen cage).

Speaking of which, I know of at least one internet forum that forces users to register using their full first and last names, and that is what serves as their screen name. Let me tell you, the place is abnormally civil by internet forum standards!

SignalHillHiker is probably the easier to find out. I think he's given his first name and surname (or its meaning anyway) on a few occasions. So you just have to put 2+2 together.

[MonctonRad]

Everyone knows Signal's real name.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by lio45

Making matters even more complicated, while I'm firmly on record saying I would count Chinese Vancouverite Lee and Chinese Vancouverite Li as having the same surname - one just happens to have been anglicized already, the other not - in the USA you probably have plenty of Smiths that were originally Schmidts. (An even more obviously illigitimate case of this would be ex NY Governor Al Smith, whose surname was originally Ferraro (meaning "smith" in Italian)). All these Smiths would be lumped together but they're actually thoroughly unrelated. I guess it still counts*, I suppose - the same way an adopted kid would become a Smith, regardless of ancestry.


* Still feels somewhat weird that we can't lump a McDonald and a MacDonald together, yet we're okay with lumping an Italian guy named Ferraro and an Anglo one named Smith as having exactly the same surname (after the former just went and changed his).

The reverse of the "lumping" problem would still be difficult to solve -- re-splitting up a name that's lumped together by spelling but "originally" different is harder than lumping together to start with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_(E..._same_spelling

If we lump the Chinese Li's and Chinese Lees together, we still have to take out the English Lees, some of the Irish Lees (which in some cases don't share roots with the English Lees because they can be anglicizations of separate previous Irish surnames, like Ó Laoidaigh) from the Chinese Lee/Li count, but then possibly still keep Korean Lee and Chinese Lee/Li, along with other East Asian variants, like Vietnamese Ly etc. (which share a common source according to Wikipedia).

I suppose for arguing surname commonality one could use a nationality/language/culture based classification

- Lee/Li (Chinese)
- Lee (Korean)
- Lee (English)
- Lee (Irish)
- Lee (other)

vs. an etymological classification.

- Lee/Lea/Leigh (from Old English word lēah, for meadow or forest clearing, and all surnames that take their root from this source)
- Lee/Li/Ly/Rhee (from Chinese word, for plum, and all surnames that take their root from this source)
- Lee (other source)

Each with a separate rank.

etc.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

But that still leaves the reverse of the "lumping" problem unsolved -- splitting up a name that's lumped together by spelling but "originally" different -- If we lump the Chinese Li's and Chinese Lees together, we still have to take out the English Lees, the Irish Lees and (depending on your view, the Korean Lees, since according to Wikipedia, the Korean Lee and Chinese Lee/Li, along with other East Asian variants, like Vietnamese Ly etc. share a common source) from the non-Chinese "Lee" list that would not be the "same name", which might be hard, unless you go through each individual's background info.

a nationality/language/culture based classification

- Lee/Li (Chinese)
- Lee (Korean)
- Lee (English)
- Lee (Irish)
- Lee (other)

vs. an etymological classification.

- Lee/Lea/Leigh (from Old English word lēah, for meadow or forest clearing)
-Lee/Li/Ly/Rhee (from Chinese word, for plum)
- Lee (other)

Each with a separate rank.

etc.

This was never going to be an exact science.

[Capsicum]

I guess my last post was probably a better example than my "Shakespeare" example, of what I meant when I said "it's a judgement call" for what are "different names" versus "different spellings of the same name".

For the Shakespeare case, we know that Shakspere was just another version of Shakespeare spelled differently, because it's the same guy who signed his name.

Whereas for the Old English and Old Chinese "Lee" example, the descendants of people named after the word for "meadow" might not all agree on if they only share the same name with the "meadow" people all spelled differently, and the "plum" people with the other "plum" people all spelled differently.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

I guess my last post was probably a better example than my "Shakespeare" example, of what I meant when I said "it's a judgement call" for what are "different names" versus "different spellings of the same name".

For the Shakespeare case, we know that Shakspere was just another version of Shakespeare spelled differently, because it's the same guy who signed his name.

Whereas for the Old English and Old Chinese "Lee" example, the descendants of people named after the word for "meadow" might not all agree on if they only share the same name with the "meadow" people all spelled differently, and the "plum" people with the other "plum" people all spelled differently.

In Vancouver I'm pretty sure the #1 most widespread surname is 李, not Leigh. It's just "lucky" that splitting it in two still allows it to retain its rightful top spot (while the variant is, impressively, still within the top ten, at #8).

I'm in total agreement with you guys that it's not an exact science at all, which is probably why it kind of presses my buttons it's a pet peeve of mine whenever people (not you guys) try to apply rigorous methods to things that are inherently unruly.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And don't forget another few hints such as his Acadian origin (the number of Acadian surnames is relatively limited).

I've always assumed that the Aca part of his nom de plume is an homage to his Acadian origins. This might mean that the Jack portion of his forum name might be for Jacques or, using the Jack/John paradigm in English, perhaps Jean. A good part of Acajack's upbringing was in English Canada therefore Jack could mean either Jacques or Jean........

Are we getting close????

BTW, if I really did know who you were (and I don't), I wouldn't "out" you in public. I might send you a PM "hello" though.......

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think I just answered your question in my post number 131!

There are probably close to a dozen people on here that I could identify by their real names, and only a few - one or two - actually know that I know. But I'd never ever share that info on the forum. So don't worry!

Maybe MonctonRad and myself should unite our efforts in order to finally figure out your identity once and for all, so we can be even!!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Maybe MonctonRad and myself should unite our efforts in order to finally figure out your identity once and for all, so we can be even!!

Oooh two smart guys on my case!

[vid]

Every time someone in the forum reveals my real name, I get messages asking if I'm Jewish. I've been asked if I'm Jewish quite a few times here and in real life, it's very strange how people want to know that kind of thing.

One of my signature links actually goes to a page that has my name, so it's not hard at all to find that out. And I think that site links to my Facebook profile.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't really follow day-to-day US politics much or have an opinion on this, but the deeper question of how to balance these rights is interesting. My post wasn't a covert comment about this Sarah Huckabee Sanders person.

Huckabee Sanders sounds like some kind of made up Americana name. Who's the next Trump appointee? Billy Bob Apple Pie Manifest Destiny Jr.?

Huckabee seems like a surname I've heard of in the US but not Canada. It's interesting that there are a few surnames (even if of British Isles origin) that are proportionally more common and associated with the US than Canada, even if both originated from settlers from the same region.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Huckabee seems like a surname I've heard of in the US but not Canada. It's interesting that there are a few surnames (even if of British Isles origin) that are proportionally more common and associated with the US than Canada, even if both originated from settlers from the same region.

Yes, I've noticed that too. Especially in the southern states.

I can think of Montgomery, Hawkins, Culpepper, Dickerson, Knox, McInenny(?), McGillicuddy(?), Ingram, Washington, Madison, etc.

Some of these of course are primarily borne by African-Americans these days. Especially the "presidential" ones for some reason.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, I've noticed that too. Especially in the southern states.

I can think of Montgomery, Hawkins, Culpepper, Dickerson, Knox, McInenny(?), McGillicuddy(?), Ingram, Washington, Madison, etc.

Some of these of course are primarily borne by African-Americans these days. Especially the "presidential" ones for some reason.

While not common, you would find Canadians with those surnames. McInenny strikes me as a variant of McInery/McKenna/Mawhinney, etc, etc.

Another difference I've seen is in the surname "Fraser", which is much more likely to be rendered as "Frasier" or "Frazer" in the USA than it is in Canada. A cop speaking on TV yesterday after the Maryland shootings (speaking of ugly ...) gave his name as "Frayshure", which would be a spelling I've never seen before.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

A cop speaking on TV yesterday after the Maryland shootings (speaking of ugly ...) gave his name as "Frayshure", which would be a spelling I've never seen before.

Phonetic spelling for the illiterate. Common in rural Appalachia.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Phonetic spelling for the illiterate. Common in rural Appalachia.

Quite possibly, although to be fair, their ancestors arrived in the 18th century before name spellings had standardized. That said, I'd wager that there are no "Frayshures" in Scotland!

[O-tacular]

I met a Jaymz on Tuesday. That's actually how he spells it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Quite possibly, although to be fair, their ancestors arrived in the 18th century before name spellings had standardized. That said, I'd wager that there are no "Frayshures" in Scotland!

You also had this in Canada as well (widespread illiteracy influencing the spelling of names). Things just went off in different directions depending on which side of the border or even in some case which region you were in.

I do notice that American spellings of names do tilt more towards simpler, more phonetic spellings, with fewer frills like "Es" at the end.

For example Woodroffe vs. Woodruff, Metcalfe vs. Metcalfe.

Also MacLean vs. McLain, MacLeod vs. McCloud/McLoud, McCray vs. McCrae, etc.

But then again American spelling as seen in Merriam-Webster also tends to be closer to pronounced English than British English.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I met a Jaymz on Tuesday. That's actually how he spells it.

Odd spellings of popular childrens' names seems a "thing" these days.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Odd spellings of popular childrens' names seems a "thing" these days.

This guy was in his 40's.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, I've noticed that too. Especially in the southern states.

I can think of Montgomery, Hawkins, Culpepper, Dickerson, Knox, McInenny(?), McGillicuddy(?), Ingram, Washington, Madison, etc.

Some of these of course are primarily borne by African-Americans these days. Especially the "presidential" ones for some reason.

I didn't think of Ingram as one of them, because of Jay Ingram.

But the "presidential" surnames do strike me as something much more American that I haven't seen much of in Canada.

I heard claims that African Americans took up president names as surnames because they might have been seen as empowering names from the point of view of those freed from slavery.