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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by eltodesukane View Post
"a proper CENTRAL RAILWAY STATION for the countries CAPITAL CITY."
-- also needed: a proper CENTRAL BUS STATION for the countrie's CAPITAL CITY.
Also needed are decent MARINA FACILITIES for the country's CAPITAL CITY....Dows Lake for visitors from Toronto/Kingston area and Ottawa River for visitors from Montreal area
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RobOttawa View Post
Very unlikely, but it would be very cool if they recladded it to match the canal side and resurrected the plaza idea from a few years back (minus LRT of course).



http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6002/5...f167fb03_z.jpg



http://i2.wp.com/westsideaction.file...u100-plaza.jpg
Almost there - now just enclose the whole thing under glass!
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Even if some level of government was willing to pay to pay the big bucks to run a train tunnel parallel to the LRT line (which seems unlikely), I don't think it is a very suitable location. It is a dead end and North American trains are not easily bi-directional (backing in or out in Montreal wastes a lot of time). They would have to build platforms to modern widths (and not the Edwardian widths that were there before) so they wouldn't be able to have many platforms, accessibility is an issue (although maybe the senate renovations may improve that) and it is quite small, particularly given Via's love of long lineups. Plus space is severely constrained by the buildings on the east side of colonel by and the canal.
Platforms would most certainly have to be underground. Biggest issue (other than money) would be, as you've said, the dead end and having to reverse the trains however, with the plans to electrify the VIA network, they might buy bi-directional train sets. And I'm pretty sure the station is significantly larger than the current one on Tremblay. It also has room for expansion (east and south sides).
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 4:10 PM
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If you are digging a tunnel, you can always run a single track tunnel with two platforms running in a through setup instead of a dual tracked dead end tunnel. Either way you're going to have a capacity issue.

If the LRT runs at the frequency they've publicly stated and VIA figures out a way to fare integrate (Is it really that hard? I know it is, it is just annoying!) or sell tickets at a fare machine, I don't think you save enough time to be worth it.
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Platforms would most certainly have to be underground. Biggest issue (other than money) would be, as you've said, the dead end and having to reverse the trains however, with the plans to electrify the VIA network, they might buy bi-directional train sets. And I'm pretty sure the station is significantly larger than the current one on Tremblay. It also has room for expansion (east and south sides).
Even if it is underground, there is about 20m between the edge of the canal and the buildings on Colonel by. Unless it is a very deep tunnel (below the canal and foundations) that leaves about half the platform/track area available at Tremblay). When there was a rail station there, the platforms extended well into what is now the Conference Centre and Westin Hotel.

Seems like an enormous amount of money to save some some passengers a 5 minute LRT ride.
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Does anyone actually care if residents of 700 Sussex are annoyed by the view? Or by anything else for that matter.
Nope.
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
That's dangerous thinkin', boy.
As I was waiting for a bus at Mackenzie to get to the train station today, I must admit that I was fantasizing about what it would be like to not have to make my way out to Ottawa's arsecrack to catch a train...

But one way or another, it will be very interesting to see what becomes of the station after the Centre Block renos - all of a sudden, it will be a freshly-renovated heritage building in the heart of central Ottawa. It will be 2028, so hey, perhaps we'll be talking about a downtown station back then, who knows?
We'll be too busy building LRT to Stittsville and Rockland and Metcalfe by then.
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Even if it is underground, there is about 20m between the edge of the canal and the buildings on Colonel by. Unless it is a very deep tunnel (below the canal and foundations) that leaves about half the platform/track area available at Tremblay). When there was a rail station there, the platforms extended well into what is now the Conference Centre and Westin Hotel.

Seems like an enormous amount of money to save some some passengers a 5 minute LRT ride.
Seems like a decent amount of money to spend to have a G7 capital with interurban train service that's not a laughingly bad embarassment, nor to have such service in the city centre as the other three of the four largest cities in the country do.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 2:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Roughly the view from 700 Sussex right now:



April 24, 2016
Photo by me.
Yeah, it's not pretty. The guy I was talking to understands renovations are happening, but this is his view every morning, all he wants to know is if the public is being updated on timelines and could have input on the final exterior design, which is what every community wants, rich or not.
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 3:44 AM
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Does anyone know if the glass and iron stairwell will return? I loved that feature of this building.
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 3:50 AM
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
Yeah, it's not pretty. The guy I was talking to understands renovations are happening, but this is his view every morning, all he wants to know is if the public is being updated on timelines and could have input on the final exterior design, which is what every community wants, rich or not.
Seems like a bit of an odd request considering the plan is to restore the heritage of the building. Its not exactly going to be a wild new concept when its done.
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 4:41 AM
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Returning trains to the downtown train station has been a mental exercise of mine for awhile now.

I don't see how you could not do a cut and cover tunnel down the canal to bring trains to the downtown core. It's a big ditch. The new platforms can be constructed by mining like the LRT stations are now. The existence of Fallowfield station allows an electric pusher/puller to be added/removed to the train while stopped for the trip into Ottawa and through the tunnel.

Yeah, there are hurdles involved- the biggest being the fact trains can't change grade quickly. But, the idea is:

Grade down the line and tunnel under Billings Bridge, possibly cut and cover under riverdale ave. then cut and cover down the ottawa canal. The challenge is grades around the river and getting to the canal.



And the feasibility in spending millions on this, just to return the trains to the downtown.

But, if we do it. We could also integrate the train station with the Rideau Centre & LRT station to the East and the NAC / Confederation Square in the West. In my vision you could off your train and exit into Confederation Square. Or get off the LRT in the Rideau Centre and pass through the Grand Hall (or at least bellow it in an extension of it) of the train station on the way to the Confederation Square exit.

This would also free up the current train station for- DING DING DING- a new home for the Canadian Science & Tech. Centre, or a Canadian Railroading Centre.
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 11:18 AM
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Residents on Riverdale probably wouldn't be thrilled about trains rumbling beneath their street.
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 11:25 AM
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Your imagination is good, but even sniffing around the canal with a shovel is a non starter.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 4:39 PM
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Might as well build a proper subway beneath the canal with access on either side so the stations are also underground pedestrian crossings. And oh, just cut and cover from Dow's Lake to downtown, with a nice smooth refrigerated surface on top so we have guaranteed skating for at least 4 months out of the year despite global warming
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 4:41 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
Yeah, it's not pretty. The guy I was talking to understands renovations are happening, but this is his view every morning, all he wants to know is if the public is being updated on timelines and could have input on the final exterior design, which is what every community wants, rich or not.
At the very least there will be a new fire escape down the side for the time being. Time to start thinking about post Senate uses ten years from now, then can think about what can be spent. There is likely to be a elevator shaft and stair case going in on the exterior wall.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 5:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikeed View Post
Returning trains to the downtown train station has been a mental exercise of mine for awhile now.
I've thought a fair bit about different ways to do what you propose, and you do have an interesting concept.

As much as I would like to have trains return to Ottawa though, I think the biggest issue is that Ottawa isn't a terminus. I believe that Ottawa benefits more from having all Toronto-Montreal trains stop here than we would from having a downtown rail station. Although not all trains stop here now, most do, and VIA's HFR proposal routes service through Ottawa. As soon as trains have to pull into Ottawa, this would mean they have to reverse out, and passengers traveling though Ottawa won't like facing different directions or the lost time. VIA will end up running trains that bypass the central station or all of Ottawa. This might be OK if the trains that do serve downtown remain frequent, however we're a long way from that point.

I think it will be interesting to see what HFR does for rail service in Ontario. We may see the train being used to commute into Ottawa from the surrounding area, which would be an excellent reason to build a downtown rail station. Whatever we do, we should be looking for a corridor into the station that can be protected. I've always thought that a path straight west from the current VIA station and north from near Lycee Claudel station is would have the tracks cross the river and dive under the Queensway where the Alta Vista link was supposed to be. The new hospital link does complicate the approach from the west though.
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 11:04 AM
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I don't think an end station would be as big a problem as it's been made out to be. After all, Montreal's station is a terminus (for all intents and purposes since VIA can't continue down the tunnel) and VIA's newly-renovated cars are made to be easily reversible (50/50 front/back-facing seating arrangement). I'd imagine that the new locomotives they're planning on purchasing in the HFR plan will also be located on either side of the train (the higher the speed, the more it's necessary to have two cabs), which means that if a train pulled in to a new Ottawa Central Station, while the passengers are alighting and boarding, the conductor could lock the front cab, walk to the back cab and pull out, easy as day.

I'm not saying that it'd be exactly like that, but it's just to illustrate that it's not some enormous, insurmountable pickle.

As for my proposal for a station location, I'd love to arrive in Union's hall, but the concourse would have to be very deep to avoid the Canal and to be able to tunnel under part of the Shaw Centre. Perhaps an easier alternative would be a station where DND now stands. It could be shallow, pretty easy to build (cut&cover vs boring) and a lot bigger (a downside of an end station is that it requires more tracks for the same capacity as a through station).

But I digress.
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
As for my proposal for a station location, I'd love to arrive in Union's hall, but the concourse would have to be very deep to avoid the Canal and to be able to tunnel under part of the Shaw Centre. Perhaps an easier alternative would be a station where DND now stands. It could be shallow, pretty easy to build (cut&cover vs boring) and a lot bigger (a downside of an end station is that it requires more tracks for the same capacity as a through station).

But I digress.
It would have to be deep to arrive at Union for not only Shaw and the Canal but also for the Confederation line that is being built now. But this isn't impossible, and if the new train sets are reversible, it would not be an issue to have a 'dead-end' at Union with a switch further south to direct the trains to either Montreal or Toronto.

A station where DND is impossible. The building is forecast to be occupied for at least the life span of the building, and likely much further beyond given the lack of life cycling DND does. Another issue is security, DND would probably not be too happy with a station under it.
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  #80  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 3:13 PM
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In this scenario, DND will have relocated. I thought they were in the process of gradually moving, no? Their need for a secure precinct isn't well-suited to an urban location. Let's say they do move: Then that concrete block can be demolished and replaced with a station and perhaps some development above. The tracks could emerge from a Nicolas C&C and the tracks could be just one level below the street and two levels below the Mackenzie King Bridge.

However, no matter where they place the station, it wouldn't cross the LRT tunnel since the access tunnel would most likely be placed under Nicolas or Col. By (west of the LRT) and the station wouldn't cross Rideau St. (where LRT swings westward).
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