Examples of Multi-nodal metro regions ( MSAs) in the US and Globally

[jd3189]

This was a topic I thought about in the Charlotte RNC thread.


Anyways, I have looked at many of the metro areas in the country, ( specifically MSAs, but CSAs also can count) and I noticed that many of them basically consist of a major city with extremely minor secondary cities and suburbs in terms of population and influence over the rest of the metro. New York is one famous example. As a city of 8 million, it forms a large chunk of its Metro's population and is more than 10 times larger than the next largest city in the metro (Hempstead). As such, one could say that NYC is very much dominant in its metro. Same could be said for Chicago and most other metros.


However, one metro that seems to not be built in that way is the Miami area or South Florida. Although Miami is the largest city of its metro, it's not as overwhelmingly dominant. The second largest city, Hialeah, only has around half the population of Miami. In addition, the region has 3 international airports and about 3 main central business districts. Thus, one could live in South Florida but never needs to go to Miami unless for a national sports game or some federal issues.


Anyways, are there other multi-nodal metros in the US or around the world where there is still a major city but the city doesn't overwhelm the metro area? Dual cities could also count, but seeing metros with 3 or more would be interesting.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by jd3189

This was a topic I thought about in the Charlotte RNC thread.


Anyways, I have looked at many of the metro areas in the country, ( specifically MSAs, but CSAs also can count) and I noticed that many of them basically consist of a major city with extremely minor secondary cities and suburbs in terms of population and influence over the rest of the metro. New York is one famous example. As a city of 8 million, it forms a large chunk of its Metro's population and is more than 10 times larger than the next largest city in the metro (Hempstead). As such, one could say that NYC is very much dominant in its metro. Same could be said for Chicago and most other metros.


However, one metro that seems to not be built in that way is the Miami area or South Florida. Although Miami is the largest city of its metro, it's not as overwhelmingly dominant. The second largest city, Hialeah, only has around half the population of Miami. In addition, the region has 3 international airports and about 3 main central business districts. Thus, one could live in South Florida but never needs to go to Miami unless for a national sports game or some federal issues.


Anyways, are there other multi-nodal metros in the US or around the world where there is still a major city but the city doesn't overwhelm the metro area? Dual cities could also count, but seeing metros with 3 or more would be interesting.

Phoenix, LA, Dallas are basically all areas of agriculture and independent towns that grew together over time. Also miniapolis/st Paul comes to mind

The Phoenix metro has at least 4 “centers” downtown, midtown, Scottsdale, Tempe. Until recently Scottsdale and Tempe were far more urban and commercially relevant than our downtown Tempe and downtown are almost a Minneapolis/st Paul situation at This point. And we have another emerging center with chandler.

La in much the same way is a collection of cities looking around the LA basin it’s like it ha smutipe “downtown” clusters

[isaidso]

In Canada, Vancouver comes closest to having a secondary city that is quite significant compared to the primary central city. Abbotsford - Mission pictured in the map below is a separate CMA.

Vancouver CMA: 2,463,431 (2016)



City of Vancouver: 631,486
City of Surrey: 517,887
City of Burnaby: 232,755
City of Richmond: 198,309
City of Coquitlam: 139,284
District Municipality of Langley: 117,285
City of Delta: 102,238
District Municipality of North Vancouver: 85,935
City of Maple Ridge: 82,256
City of New Westminster: 70,996
City of Port Coquitlam: 58,612
District Municipality of West Vancouver: 42,473
City of Port Moody: 33,551
City of White Rock: 19,952
City of Pitt Meadow: 18,573

[Boisebro]

I think Salt Lake City and, on a smaller scale, Boise both qualify.

SLC - population of 194,000; metro suburbs have a population of nearly 1 million, and the CSA is double that. I know many people who live in the metro and rarely go into SLC's CBD.

Boise - population of 235,000; two largest suburbs (Meridian and Nampa) are about 100,000 each and growing; CSA currently at 750,000+ with most of the growth in the western suburbs. Meridian's central location in the valley has made it a strong alternative for shopping, eating, working, etc.

[cannedairspray]

Since the OP mentioned Charlotte, it got me thinking of the Research Triangle/Raleigh-Durham. Raleigh has 423k and Durham 239k. But the metro also has Cary with 151k and Chapel Hill with 58k.

Also that monster at the mouth of the Chesapeake is maybe the most multinodal (in different cities, anyway) metro I can think of the US, all in Virginia:

1 Virginia Beach 452,602
2 Norfolk 245,115
3 Chesapeake 237,940
4 Newport News 181,825
5 Hampton 135,410
6 Portsmouth 95,252
7 Suffolk 89,273

And then while Williamsburg, the next largest town, is way down there at 15k, it punches above its weight as a tourist destination for all things colonial, Busch Gardens, William and Mary, and Camp Peary. I find it very easy to believe that people can live in that metro and rarely, if ever, go to to more than one or two of those cities. If you're living in Newport News and working in Hampton, how often are you gonna go to Virginia Beach? Living in Portsmouth and working in Norfolk, Suffolk could very well be a town you just drive through to get to 95.

If there's a metro of any decent sized with a similar ratio breakdown, I'll be surprised to see it.

[isaidso]

Another one in Canada that comes to mind is the Kitchener-Waterloo CMA with the Guelph CMA just 15km to the east. It will likely all merge into one urban area in about 15-20 years.

City of Kitchener: 233,222
City of Cambridge: 129,920
City of Waterloo: 104,986

Guelph CMA: 151,984

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by isaidso

In Canada, Vancouver comes closest to having a secondary city that is quite significant compared to the primary central city. Abbotsford - Mission pictured in the map below is a separate CMA.

Vancouver CMA: 2,463,431 (2016)



City of Vancouver: 631,486
City of Surrey: 517,887
City of Burnaby: 232,755
City of Richmond: 198,309
City of Coquitlam: 139,284
District Municipality of Langley: 117,285
City of Delta: 102,238
District Municipality of North Vancouver: 85,935
City of Maple Ridge: 82,256
City of New Westminster: 70,996
City of Port Coquitlam: 58,612
District Municipality of West Vancouver: 42,473
City of Port Moody: 33,551
City of White Rock: 19,952
City of Pitt Meadow: 18,573

How is it not Mississauga or Gatineau?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

How is it not Mississauga or Gatineau?

In the Toronto CMA, the City of Toronto (2,731,571) is much larger than City of Mississauga (721,599). In the Ottawa CMA, the City of Ottawa (934,243) is much larger than the City of Gatineau (276,245). In the Vancouver CMA the 2 largest cities are similar in size.

[LA21st]

By your definition, the LA wouldn't count. It does overwhelm the metro. That said, it's dowtown doesn't nor the city itself.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by isaidso

The City of Toronto (2,731,571) is much larger than City of Mississauga (721,599) while the City of Ottawa (934,243) is much larger than the City of Gatineau (276,245). In metro Vancouver the 2 largest cities are similar in size.

But are they the same in stature? City limit numbers can be misleading.

[Centropolis]

St. Louis, MO:


hilton.com

Clayton, MO:


claycorp.com

accountingbyart.com


wikipedia.com

data.websitebox.com

hard to find up to date photos of clayton but there is a huge crane over a new tallest which is almost topped out, plus a few other new skyscrapers/projects...clayton also has dedicated ROW (elevated) light rail stations that connect to downtown/airport/illinois.

visionarycap.com

[Centropolis]

i live just north of the central clayton district within walking distance and it's strange watching a brand new skyline rise above me since i'm like 8-9 miles west of downtown st. louis. it feels sort of like metro dc or even a larger sunbelt downtown, which is a funky contrast to st. louis city. downtown clayton is basically unknown outside of st. louis but it's a massive class A district with more premium office space than fort worth and other similarly sized downtowns. also, forsyth blvd in downtown clayton has the second priciest commercial real estate in the midwest, second only to wacker drive.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by cannedairspray

Since the OP mentioned Charlotte, it got me thinking of the Research Triangle/Raleigh-Durham. Raleigh has 423k and Durham 239k. But the metro also has Cary with 151k and Chapel Hill with 58k.

Also that monster at the mouth of the Chesapeake is maybe the most multinodal (in different cities, anyway) metro I can think of the US, all in Virginia:

1 Virginia Beach 452,602
2 Norfolk 245,115
3 Chesapeake 237,940
4 Newport News 181,825
5 Hampton 135,410
6 Portsmouth 95,252
7 Suffolk 89,273

And then while Williamsburg, the next largest town, is way down there at 15k, it punches above its weight as a tourist destination for all things colonial, Busch Gardens, William and Mary, and Camp Peary. I find it very easy to believe that people can live in that metro and rarely, if ever, go to to more than one or two of those cities. If you're living in Newport News and working in Hampton, how often are you gonna go to Virginia Beach? Living in Portsmouth and working in Norfolk, Suffolk could very well be a town you just drive through to get to 95.

If there's a metro of any decent sized with a similar ratio breakdown, I'll be surprised to see it.

I live in Norfolk and I can tell you most people here never leave the Norfolk/VB city limits. People never go to Portsmouth because of tolls or to NN or Hampton because of the tunnel traffic and honestly theres nothing there that isn't here.

I've been in Norfolk for four years going on close to five in a few months. Only driven through NN, Hampton, Chesapeake and Suffolk. Been to Portsmouth twice. Worked in Virginia Beach so I went there daily, but now that I am not working there I stay in Norfolk 99% of my time. I don't think my story is entirely unique but I will say there is a *huge* breakdown between North/South metro in terms of where people go.

To add to the divisiveness of the area, VB has the most people and is important for its Military bases and tourism but Norfolk is the employment leader with its military base, port, and downtown area. There is not real *leader* in the area but there does seem to be a central area, which is downtown Norfolk, which is held back by so many other areas trying to enhance their identities instead of focusing on one area.

[softee]

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

But are they the same in stature? City limit numbers can be misleading.

Despite it's large size, most people in Toronto proper don't even see Mississauga as a legit city -- it's just considered the suburbs. Hamilton is the only place in the greater urbanized area that is recognized as a real city, but it's puny compared to Toronto. Toronto absolutely dominates the metro in terms of stature.

[PoshSteve]

Looking at multi-nodal CSA's, Cleveland-Akron-Canton would be a prime example. Instead of adding additional mostly rural counties to an MSA, it merges three separate MSA's into one. The core cities are not terribly far away in population, being approximately 385k, 197k, and 70k each, respectively. The Cleveland MSA dominates the group though, comprising 2M people out of the 3.5M total. The suburbs of the three have all merged together by now, so you can drive through seamless suburbia from Lake Erie to the foothills of Appalachia south of Canton. The two largest employment centers are both in the City of Cleveland though, being Downtown and University Circle.

[Centropolis]

i guess we should sort of delineate between metro areas that have developed multiple urban nodes of their of volition and metro areas (or CSAs) that have happened to swallow other pre-existing larger towns/cities.

lets see the latest bellevue, washington pics please.

[dc_denizen]

Boston and it's satellite cities (worchester, lowell etc) seems the most multi-nodal to me.

[dubu]

Originally Posted by Boisebro

I think Salt Lake City and, on a smaller scale, Boise both qualify.

SLC - population of 194,000; metro suburbs have a population of nearly 1 million, and the CSA is double that. I know many people who live in the metro and rarely go into SLC's CBD.

Boise - population of 235,000; two largest suburbs (Meridian and Nampa) are about 100,000 each and growing; CSA currently at 750,000+ with most of the growth in the western suburbs. Meridian's central location in the valley has made it a strong alternative for shopping, eating, working, etc.

from bend to boise its 5 hours and slc to there it 5 hrs. overpopulation im saying jk. it would be nice if there was one more city.

[muppet]

Hankou, Hanyang and Wuchang were three ancient, walled and vying cities at a confluence of the Yangtze, that grew into one - Wuhan



www.china-tour.cn, www.nancyliu.com





It now numbers 19 million, but these cities still have their own unique character, city centres and culture from one another



Wuchang looks like it's winning the competition for investment:


http://wx3.sinaimg.cn

While Hankou is still the traditional centre:




The other more famous example, but where the CBDs dont face off each other is of course the Pearl River Delta, where Shenzhen, Dongguan, Guangzhou and Zhongshan have merged into one another.

[SIGSEGV]

The Quad Cities seem like an obvious example (although, to be fair, I've been through there but never stopped).