United Gulf towers | ~90m | 27 fl | Approved

[Empire]

Does anyone know when the Twisters Towers will break ground?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Empire

Does anyone know when the Twisters Towers will break ground?

Not likely going to happen in 2008, or 2009. As per the development agreement they are required to start construction 3 years from approval, could be 4 but it is part of the deal.

With what everyone is seeing in the global economy, local economy and the lack of money available i doubt this will happen before the schedule deadline.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Originally Posted by sdm

Not likely going to happen in 2008, or 2009. As per the development agreement they are required to start construction 3 years from approval, could be 4 but it is part of the deal.

With what everyone is seeing in the global economy, local economy and the lack of money available i doubt this will happen before the schedule deadline.

Is there an option to renew the development agreement after four years?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

Is there an option to renew the development agreement after four years?

Don't believe so. If there was it will likely be subjected to approval again.

[someone123]

The local economy seems to be doing fine and is what has the largest impact on these projects.

As far as I know, most renewals of development agreements are more or less trivial, although they do require a council vote. In this particular case the deadlines are also kind of unreasonable since final approval was not granted until long after the original development agreement was drafted.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by sdm

Not likely going to happen in 2008, or 2009. As per the development agreement they are required to start construction 3 years from approval, could be 4 but it is part of the deal.

With what everyone is seeing in the global economy, local economy and the lack of money available i doubt this will happen before the schedule deadline.

Actually the local economy is doing quite well.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Actually the local economy is doing quite well.

Local economy is doing well yes, but there is no market for 500k plus condos nor market segment for high end hotel at this point.

Furthermore money for financing is tight, and will be getting tighter. I am already seeing commercial developers moving away from projects due to requirements in financing the projects that are not the traditional norms. We are recession bound in my opinion.

The deadline for ground breaking is tied to the last hurdle they encountered, not the original development agreement granting date. If it was then it would need to be in the ground within a short period of time. Furthermore this particular development agreement is very very fine in the details of what is permitted etc.

[someone123]

The financing issue is possible, although this is a project by a pretty major developer.

I don't know what their planned price structure is but I would imagine that there is a certain degree of pent-up demand for this project. It will also take a couple of years to build, minimum, so there's lots of time to absorb the new condos.

When Bishop's Landing was first proposed people said many of the same things. In fact, I don't think there's been any period during the past 10 years when I *haven't* heard people saying the economy was about to tank and condo sales were finished.

In reality we've seen a big shift above and beyond demographic changes. More people want to live downtown and are willing to live in condos, so they're a major part of the housing market and there will always be demand as long as there are more people looking for housing.

I don't know much about the hotel market in the past year or two but there's nothing to say that they won't try to jump into a saturated market and steal business from other older hotels. Hotels are also capable of 'growing the market' if they are large and nice enough, especially when it comes to tourists.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by someone123

The financing issue is possible, although this is a project by a pretty major developer.

I don't know what their planned price structure is but I would imagine that there is a certain degree of pent-up demand for this project. It will also take a couple of years to build, minimum, so there's lots of time to absorb the new condos.

When Bishop's Landing was first proposed people said many of the same things. In fact, I don't think there's been any period during the past 10 years when I *haven't* heard people saying the economy was about to tank and condo sales were finished.

In reality we've seen a big shift above and beyond demographic changes. More people want to live downtown and are willing to live in condos, so they're a major part of the housing market and there will always be demand as long as there are more people looking for housing.

I don't know much about the hotel market in the past year or two but there's nothing to say that they won't try to jump into a saturated market and steal business from other older hotels. Hotels are also capable of 'growing the market' if they are large and nice enough, especially when it comes to tourists.

Trust me on the financing problems, there will be blood in the streets within the next 6-8 months. Furthermore the developer does not have the capcity to fund the project. The costs of construction have probably risen 30-40% since proposed which will further hender development.

Hotels are built to demand, however when supply exceeds demand all hotels suffer. With 60% occupancy rates hotels are barely making a profit.

Agree, people want to be downtown, but at 500k plus there will be little who can afford such in my opinion.

[Keith P.]

Geez, SDM, you're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you?

I have no doubt the condos will work out fine. The hotel is possibly another matter, but time will tell. There is no top-class hotel in Halifax, so if this goes into that segment, it will be unique and will likely do well.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Geez, SDM, you're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you?

I have no doubt the condos will work out fine. The hotel is possibly another matter, but time will tell. There is no top-class hotel in Halifax, so if this goes into that segment, it will be unique and will likely do well.

Yeah really talk about negative...geech! Office space is well in demand maybe one of towers could be an office tower as opposed to a Hotel. I guess there would be some design changes for an office tower but it could be possible.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Yeah really talk about negative...geech! Office space is well in demand maybe one of towers could be an office tower as opposed to a Hotel. I guess there would be some design changes for an office tower but it could be possible.

Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble.
Sure i would love to see new development downtown, but unfortunately we have missed the boat yet again in Halifax for large scale projects. The developer is already quoted as saying the project may not go.

Haliguy, the development agreement is very detailed to what is to be developed on the site. Switching to office would require the developer to amend the agreement and therefore open the process again.

That being said, dependant upon the final design (which on a side note theres rumors floating around that are claiming the twist in the design may not be feasible) may make the building less attractive to business office use as floor layout and core design may make in inefficient combining with the building common area design in which office tenant typically pay their proportionate share of costs.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by sdm

That being said, dependant upon the final design (which on a side note theres rumors floating around that are claiming the twist in the design may not be feasible) may make the building less attractive to business office use as floor layout and core design may make in inefficient combining with the building common area design in which office tenant typically pay their proportionate share of costs.

That's unfortunate, but architects are supposed to think of these things before they propose it. That being said, towers with a twist are being built elsewhere, such as the Turning Torso in Malmo, and the Ritz-Carleton and the Erickson in Vancouver.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=138004

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=138570

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=turning+torso

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Architype

That's unfortunate, but architects are supposed to think of these things before they propose it. That being said, towers with a twist are being built elsewhere, such as the Turning Torso in Malmo, and the Ritz-Carleton and the Erickson in Vancouver.

I don't think there has ever been a major project in Halifax that was not accompanied by speculation as to how it would ultimately end up failing in any number of ways.

Similarly there's never been a time in Halifax where the condo market wasn't supposedly at imminent risk of collapse.

[phrenic]

Article from the Herald today.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1048722.html

[skyscraper_1]

That is totally not fair at all. After going though years and years of appeals(and winning everyone of them) just to have the top cut off anyway. Hopefully it will get started ASAP.

[someone123]

Well they have three years to start it and they were given an expiry date from the beginning. The article title strikes me as more misleading spin than anything else.

Kind of disappointing how UG is going to finish up other projects before seriously starting on the towers. Back in the fall it sounded more like they'd be starting on the detailed planning immediately.

[Spitfire75]

I find it odd how the title in the actual paper was "Towers height probably won't be affected" or something like that, however the title on the website has completely opposite spin.

[Helladog]

I'm confused about the height restriction. That's a tall building for Halifax, but not that tall. To bring a company to Halifax and build say a luxury hirise, where is one supposed to go? Is downtown closed for business?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Helladog

I'm confused about the height restriction. That's a tall building for Halifax, but not that tall. To bring a company to Halifax and build say a luxury hirise, where is one supposed to go? Is downtown closed for business?

For anything over 65 meters, yes. Ridiculous.