Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure - Page 45

esquire · #**881** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 5:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyro

No plans for the at Grade CN crossing on 101 North of Dugald?

That's a weird one... I'm surprised that it hasn't been done by now. Busy rail line, very busy highway with a busy intersection nearby.

I can understand why MIT didn't do it when the NE leg of 101 first opened in the late 90s given that everyone thought the railways were going to merge and one mainline would be abandoned, but that clearly isn't going to happen now.

Biff · #**882** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 5:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyro

No plans for the at Grade CN crossing on 101 North of Dugald?

I was stopped at that one on the Perimeter last week for 28 minutes (at 4:20 pm).

bomberjet · #**883** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 5:53 PM**

That stretch of Bishop we're speaking of isn't actually that bad. It's the stretch from St. Anne's to St. Mary's that is the delay.

And yeah Cyro, that location at 101/Dugald is high on the list of rail overpasses. But that's a local political football that's being tossed around for decades to come. They kind of got screwed now that the lights were put in...

CoryB · #**884** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 5:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Once the Waverley underpass is built, the only level crossings left on CN and CP mainlines will be for secondary roads rather than major arterials... but those probably aren't priorities. I don't think we'll see an underpass at a local street like Ravenhurst or Community Row for a long, long time from now.

Community Row, while not a direct geographic replacement, will likely see access shifted to the Clement Parkway crossing once that occurs. It would actually not be surprising to see Wilkes become significantly more limited access when Ridgewood South becomes more developed with traffic being directed to Clement Parkway. Wilkes with its uncontrolled left turns truly cannot be left as-is for much longer as it is one hazardous stretch of roadway.

Ravenhurst is currently the only rail crossing between Plesis and the Perimeter. While it might be less important that the Wilkes development it is likely high of the list of areas for future grading separation most due to the distance between other suitable crossings. Further, is something happens at Plesis, as the current construction is demonstrating, there are limited other alternative for traffic in the area. A grade separated crossing at Ravenhurst allows some release of that pressure. Granted, of the main line crossing inside the Perimeter this is likely ranked "last" but when there are three main crossings left to receive attention it is also not irrelevant.

bomberjet · #**885** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 5:55 PM**

The Perimeter, no matter what the railway is, should be an overpass. There are a number of lesser used tracks. Maybe once a day for trains, if that. They should all be overpasses.

bomberjet · #**886** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 5:57 PM**

There are plans, or there are plans to make plans, for moving Wilkes further south, or a Sterling Lyon extension to 101. Wilkes is too close to the track and hemmed in by all those houses, businesses. It's part of the RFP that was put out recently for the WRC parkway extension.

Cyro · #**887** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff

I was stopped at that one on the Perimeter last week for 28 minutes (at 4:20 pm).

1/2 hr.wait on Winnipeg's major ring road/highway? That's severely screwed up and dangerous as hell. Our priorities seem to be half ass backward here.

Simplicity · #**888** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 6:15 PM**

The CN Lettellier at McGillivray has become completely out of control. The number and sizes of the trains is leading to a complete blockade in and off Pembina for nearly 40 minutes at a time in some cases. A couple of Saturday's ago, there was probably a 3km train pulling into the Ft. Rouge yards at a dead stop. Traffic was backed up from the train to Hertz Rentals @ Waverley. I was lucky enough to be at a break in the median, so I turned around, drove back to Waverley, got caught at a train, took Taylor to Pembina, headed back South on Pembina, and the train was still stopped and hadn't moved. That was probably another 20 minutes in addition to the 15 or 20 I had already spent at a stand-still on McGillivray. And this is happening more and more frequently.

bomberjet · #**889** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 6:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity

The CN Lettellier at McGillivray has become completely out of control. The number and sizes of the trains is leading to a complete blockade in and off Pembina for nearly 40 minutes at a time in some cases. A couple of Saturday's ago, there was probably a 3km train pulling into the Ft. Rouge yards at a dead stop. Traffic was backed up from the train to Hertz Rentals @ Waverley. I was lucky enough to be at a break in the median, so I turned around, drove back to Waverley, got caught at a train, took Taylor to Pembina, headed back South on Pembina, and the train was still stopped and hadn't moved. That was probably another 20 minutes in addition to the 15 or 20 I had already spent at a stand-still on McGillivray. And this is happening more and more frequently.

Could've even been the same train! haha maybe not though.

By law, trains can not sit for more than 5 minutes at a time while blocking a crossing without moving. There is a hotline you can call to file a complaint, but I can't find the number at the moment. City councillors, MLA's and MP's can be informed as well.

And it's not even just an inconvenience thing, it's a safety thing. Say an ambulance with a heart attack victim is stuck at the front of that line for 45 minutes. It's quite a big deal.

esquire · #**890** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 6:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The Perimeter, no matter what the railway is, should be an overpass. There are a number of lesser used tracks. Maybe once a day for trains, if that. They should all be overpasses.

There's no chance that there will be underpasses built for some of the lesser-used branch lines, and for good reason... it would be insanity to spend $75 million or more on an underpass for a rail line that might get used a few times a month as some of them are. Some probably won't be around for much longer.

bomberjet · #**891** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 6:32 PM**

There's no way it'll cost $75M for one of them. $15M for a basic fly-over style thing. Fairly cheap. I think the fly-over at Bishop/Kenaston ended up costing between $20M-$25M. And that was a fairly long, curved span.

Simplicity · #**892** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 6:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Could've even been the same train! haha maybe not though.

By law, trains can not sit for more than 5 minutes at a time while blocking a crossing without moving. There is a hotline you can call to file a complaint, but I can't find the number at the moment. City councillors, MLA's and MP's can be informed as well.

And it's not even just an inconvenience thing, it's a safety thing. Say an ambulance with a heart attack victim is stuck at the front of that line for 45 minutes. It's quite a big deal.

Nah, this was a different train. But who knows, it could have been the reason the other one was sitting on the Letellier.

I've only really noticed a pick up in traffic of late. I've lived in the area for many years and I don't remember being as reticent to take McGillivray back from the Southwest as I am now. This was why I was commenting about the traffic at the Ft. Rouge Yards when we were chatting about the Ft. Rouge Developments; it's now become very common to hear the brake screech and car coupling that was once on the rarer side. If you're going to the show home some time after work, you're bound to hear it.

esquire · #**893** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 7:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There's no way it'll cost $75M for one of them. $15M for a basic fly-over style thing. Fairly cheap. I think the fly-over at Bishop/Kenaston ended up costing between $20M-$25M. And that was a fairly long, curved span.

Plessis underpass was budgeted for $77M and is already projected to go over budget. Maybe going over the tracks would be a bit cheaper but either way you're still talking huge dollars for little real benefit when it comes to grade separations for lightly used branch lines.

bomberjet · #**894** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 8:17 PM**

That $77M is higher now, no doubt. But Plessis has extensive retaining walls, urban utility issues. Putting a simple fly-over on the Perimeter is significantly less costly. Not talking about the massive cloverleaf or overpasses at CentrePort either. And if its an overpass, theres no messing with the track, at all. So that reduces cost too. Rail work is expensive. I don't know the actual budget for Plessis. But the rail work could come in at around $10M just for that piss ant project.

cllew · #**895** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 10:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Once the Waverley underpass is built, the only level crossings left on CN and CP mainlines will be for secondary roads rather than major arterials... but those probably aren't priorities. I don't think we'll see an underpass at a local street like Ravenhurst or Community Row for a long, long time from now.
.

Would the north end of Plessis Rd at Gunn Rd be considered secondary?

With the current road traffic going over the CP mainline there and then add what will come when Concordia East connects in a few years to Plessis in front of MPI's compound it could probably justify a grade separation of some sort.

cllew · #**896** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 10:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Plessis underpass was budgeted for $77M and is already projected to go over budget. Maybe going over the tracks would be a bit cheaper but either way you're still talking huge dollars for little real benefit when it comes to grade separations for lightly used branch lines.

Don't think too many people would be happy to see their tax money spend on a separation for the GWWD line. I think they can wait the 5 minutes for the engine, 3 tank cars and the caboose to go by twice a month.

CoryB · #**897** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 10:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cllew

Would the north end of Plessis Rd at Gunn Rd be considered secondary?

With the current road traffic going over the CP mainline there and then add what will come when Concordia East connects in a few years to Plessis in front of MPI's compound it could probably justify a grade separation of some sort.

This will ultimately depend on the direction the Ed Schreyer Parkway plans take. The original vision was that it would effectively replace a lot of what Plessis is currently being used for. That is likely on the ten year or longer horizon as the next CPT phase is from Main to Route 90 (plus the Provincial piece to tie into CCW).

bomberjet · #**898** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 11:10 PM**

GWWD is such a farce already. Needs to go. Just truck the fluids out there, not like they have mile long trains. Isn't it only a couple cars of ammoia or something like that? There was talk of them shortening the line so it ended east of the Floodway, basically at the water treatment plant. But I don't think that's going anywhere. If the Province really wants to upgrade the Perimeter to an interstate, there are zero rail crossings.

There's going to be traffic lights going up at Plessis and Gunn in the near future. Not sure exactly when.

I'm interested to see what the crossing of Peguis and CP mainline will look like after they finish the rebuild of Peguis (which may be complete). If there was any secondary crossing that got an underpass, based purely on geometry, that would be it. The track is so much higher than the surrounding area. It would seem like a perfect fit for one of those single span overpasses, like they ave in Point Douglas. Of course, pie in the sky, but just saying. That one will be getting a lot busier over the next 5 years, same with the Plessis one.

It's always fun to go weightless over that one haha.

esquire · #**899** Posted **Nov 24, 2014, 11:51 PM**

^ GWWD railway isn't going anywhere. At one time it used to do brisk business hauling gravel but these days it is down to its essential role in facilitating maintenance of the civic aqueduct... there is no road access.

Anyway, the fact that it crosses the Perimeter at grade is no big deal. Interstate standards apply in the US, not in Manitoba.

Simplicity · #**900** Posted **Nov 25, 2014, 1:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ GWWD railway isn't going anywhere. At one time it used to do brisk business hauling gravel but these days it is down to its essential role in facilitating maintenance of the civic aqueduct... there is no road access.

Anyway, the fact that it crosses the Perimeter at grade is no big deal. Interstate standards apply in the US, not in Manitoba.

Yeah, Supercrete used to use it to haul gravel back from their pits, but I think that ended over twenty years ago now.

But Esquire's right here - there's no access outside of this line...