PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[Joey D]

I was really suprised when I saw a newer rendition of Christina 2 on Philly IV (page 490ish) that showed a total redo of the building.

Although I'm sure MBNA will be devistating to the city, the momentum of everything in the city is promising. I can almost smell it in the air.

I hate to say it, Mglan... but your area of the woods is starting to concern me. It doesn't appear (besides Parcels) that the area is progressing, HOWEVER, I will say the Chinatown bus, as menial as that may be, may be a positive effect on the area.

I can almost see a small Chinese microeconomy developing now around 4th and Market. Hopefully, this new mini-transit center will positively elicit business in the immediate area.

I can almost say there is a microscopic Chinatown at 4th and Market (don't laugh.)

Anyway... ships ahoy on 500 Delaware!

[mglan80]

I honestly don't think that BoA will be dumping many of the buildings in the complex. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if a few of the smaller buildings in the county (the one in Greenville for instance) are sold and the people consolidated into the downtown campus. Also, the buildings like the old courthouse and the daycare buildings on French Street will probably be dumped, but I don't see them getting rid of the larger Bracebridge I-IV buildings. There will not be a doomsday scenario with job cuts in the city. The cuts will be relatively minor compared to the massive cuts that will happen to BoA call centers elsewhere (MBNA has their business wrapped tight, BoA does not).

As for my neighborhood, there is progress but it takes time. Hell, it's only been three years since the Mews opened (or half of it to be exact). Things don't turn around that fast, at least not in Wilmington. The powers that be are trying to position the neighborhood as an arts district (which I think might have been better around DCAD, but what do I know). Here's what's going on:

1) The 300 block should get moving within weeks. An experienced Philadelphia redeveloper, Don McGinley, is fitting out 12 apartments (maybe rental or condo, he's changed his mind a lot) in the yellow building, the brown builidng with the small mansard roof and the two greenish buildings along Market. They will be considered "luxury," which means nice finishes and well managed and about $1,000-$1,200 per month for a one bedroom. There'll be a small courtyard in the interior light well. Also, he'd like to buy the vacant lots between the Bar Assoc. and the corner building on 4th to build three story walk-ups with retail on ground (but that's at least a year out).



2) The garage should start soon. There's been survey crews from Verizon, the City, and DP out that I've seen. Also, there was a crew preparing the two southern-most of Al's buildings for demolition (very preliminary and with a very noisy desiel generator running the entire night).

3) There's been a three new shops that are in various stages of opening/construction besides the pizza shop that I don't think will ever open (it's been two years on construction!).

4) The buildings on Market but closer to 4th Street are undercontract by someone. WSFS didn't finance that one so I have no idea who that is or what will become of it.

As for the Chinatown...not quite. Most of the businesses around that area or either Chinese or Korean owned, but that doesn't make it a Chinatown. If the shops offered authentic cuisine, authentic butchers, or authentic merchandise, then yes, but these shops sell fried you-call-it (the Fry Korner), generic Chinese food (J Farmers and Golden Panda), and various "urban" clothing. Close, but no wonton.

500 Delaware: 11 months and 17 days until occupancy.

[Joey D]

Take your wonton and shove it.

No matter what you say, I have lived in Wilmington my whole life and that is the most asians I have ever seen attracted to that area, although that being not many.

I guess what I was implying was more of a dream than a probability, but it isn't too far-fetched. Asians have always been very economic people, and hopefully, with the Chinatown buses the low-cost, high-standard economy will lure them to stay. After all, the Chinese ARE one of the largest immigrant groups in the country.

Mexicans, and Chinese fuel economies. We've got our Mexicans, now I want our Chinese.

On a side note.. I had no idea Baker lived in such a small rowhome when I saw it on the news. He's still the man either way, tho.

[mglan80]

^I knew where you were going with the Chinatown comment, I just had to inject my bluntly rational thoughts. I can't help it. Asians seem to own many shops and businesses in the poorest areas of cities, I guess because they're cheap to buy and moderately profitable. To grossly generalize, their work ethic always astounds me.

Oh yeah, and there's a Mexican restaurant that is an on-again-off-again rehab at 2nd and Market. I'd be nice to have that open so maybe I can get a cheap Mexican dinner in my own neighborhood.

On Baker, last I read he rents it. It's kind of strange he's never married or bought a home in the 20 years or so he's lived in Wilmington. I wonder, did he lose wife, or is he a confirmed bachelor? He's still the man, and always ready to give a shot of reality with a insult chaser.

Damn, we really need more than three guys from the area on here.

[horatio_the_hermit]

As a curious Neorthwesterner. What is in Delaware. What is it known for other than being the first state.

[Kitchen Guy]

the Mayor was once married and has a Daughter (who works for DelDot but that's a scandal for a different web site). He appears to be a man of simple tastes. For decades he lived on his city council salary.

[Kitchen Guy]

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...601190332/1006

New complex coming to Riverfront
$400 million plan includes condos, offices, shops
By ADAM TAYLOR and PATRICK JACKSON
The News Journal

01/19/2006
A prominent Wilmington developer plans to build a $400 million complex of condominiums, office space and retail shops on a Riverfront parcel targeted last spring for a smaller project anchored by a hotel.

The site, on the east side of South Madison Street, south of the AAA Mid-Atlantic headquarters building, is to be cleared of buildings including the city's public works garage, a state Department of Transportation maintenance building and the Wilmington Rowing Center.

The development planned by Buccini/ Pollin Group Inc., to be known as Justisons Landing, no longer includes a hotel, which was part of the original plan announced in February, partner Robert Buccini said Wednesday.

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The project now involves 700 condominiums, 300,000 square feet of offices and 75,000 square feet of retail space.

"The group that oversees development on the Riverfront would like a hotel to be built closer to the Chase Center on the Riverfront," Buccini said of the former arts center now marketed as a convention site.

Buccini said construction on about half of the condos will begin in May, with the entire project taking about four years to build.

Preliminary development plans are scheduled for introduction at the City Council meeting tonight.

To make the deal work, the state has agreed to buy two parcels for more than $13 million using transportation funds and a loan from its economic development program.

One parcel is about 10 acres owned by Delmarva Power along the I-95 viaduct west of the 12-acre site to be built on by Buccini/Pollin. The other is a site west of the viaduct along Beech Street owned by the DuPont Co. and formerly used for laboratories.

The state will use the Beech Street land as a new site for its maintenance building. The Riverfront Development Corp. will use some of the Delmarva Power site for a multilevel parking garage for AAA Mid-Atlantic and the Buccini/Pollin complex, which also will have its own parking.

AAA employees are now parking on a surface lot Buccini will soon start building on. The parking lot was part of the city's and state's commitments to AAA when it relocated its headquarters to the Riverfront.

Mayor James M. Baker said the city is pleased by the promise of more development.

"This is a successful partnership between the state, the [Riverfront Development Corp.], the city and the private sector," he said. "It is bringing people, jobs and energy back to the city and we hope the progress is able to continue."

The state commitment was nailed down in Dover on Wednesday during a meeting of the General Assembly's Joint Bond Bill Committee.

But it won't happen exactly the way Transportation Secretary Nathan Hayward III wanted it to.

Hayward wanted to draw the $13.2 million from the Transportation Trust Fund. Instead, the committee voted to commit about $10 million as a loan from the Delaware Economic Development Office's fund, with the rest coming from the transportation fund.

The DelDOT maintenance building and the parking garage will not use up all of the land on either parcel. The state and city plan to market the rest for more redevelopment down the road.

When the excess land is sold for future projects, the proceeds will be used to replenish DEDO's loan fund.

To prepare the Beech Street and Delmarva Power sites for resale, the state also plans to use up to $3 million in "brownfields" cleanup money controlled by the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control.

Contact Adam Taylor at 324-2787 or ataylor@delawareonline.com. Contact Patrick Jackson at 678-4274 or pjackson@delawareonline.com.

Mayor James M. Baker said the partnership will bring more jobs and development to the Wilmington Riverfront.






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[mglan80]

I wondered who would be the first to post the article.

It's interesting the hotel was pulled as part of the project. I knew the Riverfront Development Corp. really wanted a hotel to be adjacent to the Chase Center, but I didn't think they'd push for BPG to redesign their plans. I guess the question now is when will a hotel chain sign on to build on that parking lot across Madison from the Chase Center.

Also, I thought the city was going to move the public works yard over by the port. I guess when I heard the river, I associated the Delaware River. I really don't think that location will be good for anyone in Browntown. They recently lost NVF and DuPont, and now will be a parking lot filled with city vehicles. That's shitty. That reinforces the idea that many old timers have that the new development is strictly for the new money people moving in. While I don't agree with that, I think the city could have come up with a better location for the yard (like over by the port!).

Oh yeah, and 700 units (~1300 people)...this train is really picking up steam.

[Joey D]

More great news for Wilmington -

I'm glad they finally announced this project. The thing that is on my mind is, although they cancelled the hotel, I see they are using the terminology "condominiums."

Being that they have altered their original plans substantially, and we no longer have a hotel, it seems obvious that they have changed their minds about the community of townhouses.

In conclusion, are we to expect another couple highrises, as there is no way in hell 700 townhouses could fit on that parcel alone?

Maybe we can look forward to being the "larger" Wilmington in the 2010 census?

Very exciting news, indeed.

[Joey D]

Actually, I did some thinking.

The parcel for Justison is roughly twice the size of the parcel for Christina Landing.
Since Christina Landing has the equivalent of 60 rowhomes, and about 300-ish condos, this would mean that this project, originally slated smaller with townhouses, would now include highrises at or above the scale of Christina Landing.

Anybody concur? In addition, they are doing mixed use retail and 300,000 sf of office space.

Something of decent size HAS to result from this, no?

$400 Million is alot of farking money.

[Kitchen Guy]

Since B/P is a hotel developer/opperator also, I am sure it was an easy sell to get to delete the Hotel from Justisons landing.

I'm sure the conversation went something like this: Hey B/P, instead of building a hotel there, build it over here, next to the Chase center on land we will give you.

[mglan80]

Originally Posted by Joey D

The thing that is on my mind is, although they cancelled the hotel, I see they are using the terminology "condominiums."

Condominiums is very misunderstood word. A condominium is an ownership arrangement where the buyer owns their unit (either highrise, midrise or townhome), but is not responsible for maintaining anything outside of their home. So things like sidewalks, driveways, landscaping, etc. are taken care of my a condominium association, which funds these repairs and maintenance through condominium fees.

The 700 number has been around for awhile, and the only massing models I've seen has the project having only townhomes. And although that site is big, I agree with you that I doesn't look big enough for 700 units. At the latest, we'll find out in May. I should have gone to the council meeting.

[mglan80]

Originally Posted by Kitchen Guy

I'm sure the conversation went something like this: Hey B/P, instead of building a hotel there, build it over here, next to the Chase center on land we will give you.

That's about how I imagined it, too.

Here's an article about Renaissance Center project. This project is like Mike Myers, just won't die.

Developer Adds New Twist to Renaissance Centre
Amended Plan calls for New Hotel Atop Scaled-Down Project

By ADAM TAYLOR
The News Journal
01/20/2006

WILMINGTON -- The developer of a $50 million project intended to help revitalize the heart of downtown has proposed another change to a one-city-block development that has been stalled for years.

Brock J. Vinton of Renaissance Centre LLC told City Council he wants to again use a portion of the proposed development -- bounded by Fourth, Market, Fifth and King streets -- for a hotel.

Vinton has until mid-March to show construction will begin on the Renaissance Centre. If he can't, he will forfeit $2 million of the $2.5 million sale price he paid the city for the one-acre block, said city Economic Development Director Richard V. Pryor. The land would return to the city as well.

Some consider the project key to the redevelopment of the downtown area, helping link the lower North Market Street area with Rodney Square to the north.

The project has changed more than once. In 2000, a hotel and an office were on the drawing board. A year later, the plan called for a 225,000-square-foot office building and a 650-space parking garage, with no hotel. In 2004, the plans were scaled back to a 140,000-square-foot office building and 325-space garage.

Now, Vinton is proposing a hotel on the top half of a building of the same size, about 10 stories, Pryor said. The garage would shrink to 192 spaces.

"The latest proposal would save him money, first and foremost," Pryor said. "I think it's gotten smaller because the marketplace and competition have stolen prospective tenants over time."

Vinton could not be reached for comment.

The request was introduced without discussion at Thursday's City Council meeting. It will be deliberated publicly at a committee meeting next month.

Last year, Vinton asked that the agreement be changed to allow him to knock down all historic buildings on the block. The agreement with the city called for the facades to remain. The city protested and Vinton withdrew the request, Pryor said.

The project has been plagued by problems. Some of the historic structures were damaged by a demolition contractor. And city officials said contractors removed asbestos from the roofs of some of the buildings improperly. Instead of hosing down the tops of the buildings and using tarps and chutes, workers simply used sledgehammers, sending asbestos dust flying into the air.

The project has remained stalled since the summer of 2005. Located directly across King Street from the $137 million New Castle County Courthouse that opened in 2002, the site is now part empty lot and part half-demolished, vacant buildings in disrepair.

Vinton's negotiations with a hotel operator have not been finalized, Pryor said.

He is working to maintain the historic facades with a group called Preservation Initiatives, city Communications Director John Rago said.

Pryor said Vinton doesn't want to gamble on a multimillion-dollar construction loan without some commitments from tenants.

Yet, Pryor remains optimistic. The talks with the hotel firm, which Pryor wouldn't identify, are only three weeks old. "But it's the most hopeful activity I've seen in the last 18 months," he said.

Mayor James M. Baker said the city would move to take back the land and keep the money if signs of imminent construction aren't happening in two months.

"This isn't a phony deadline," he said. "We're giving them every opportunity to break ground, but if they don't, there's no shortage of other developers waiting to take over the site."

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While more hotel rooms will make the city more attractive for conventions and trade shows, I don't the market is strong enough for two new hotels. Personally, I hope Commonwealth does not succeed and the parcel is taken back and resold to someone else. The city will get $2MM and the money from the resale, and would get a competant urban developer. Commonwealth just doesn't understand how to market urban properties. If they do somehow pull this off, it is encouraging that Preservation Initiatives is working with them. PI is the same guy who is renovating the buildings at 3rd and Market. He's a guy who knows how to build and market an urban project.

[Joey D]

Brock Vinton (name belongs on a crime drama) is starting to realize that Wilmington will take the land back at the end of the stipulated time.

Really, it is a bit uncertain as to which way the market will sway, but he should realize with the amount of development in the area, that he will have more than supple interest in his project in the long run, if not the short term.

In regards to the "historic" buildings, I have to assert my personal opinion. Technically, the trolley tracks on 4th Street were historic, however they had to make way for the future.

It is nice, wherever possible, to conserve history, but if it stands in the way of future progress (future history) it really cancels itself out. The city needs to progress, and the future is more crucial than a 80 year-old building with a Coca-Cola sign. Sorry Nimbys.

Do the math, MGlan... no way in hell could you fit 700 condos in a 2.5 block area without having somewhat of a NY-style density. You fit 50 rowhomes in a two block area, and it already surpasses 88% of modern U.S. cities in terms of density.

700 condos in that dense an area has to result in a vertical fashion.

Obladi, Oblada.

[mglan80]

^Vinton (Commonwealth to be more specific) was dealt a wild card with the MBNA/BoA merger. With any project, the Bank and the Borrower have to be sure that the building will generate cash to repay the loan and operate and maintain the building (Vinton needs to make sure it doesn't come out of his pocket or have his assets liquidated). With the merger, everyone looking to move or expand is waiting around to see if BoA is going to flood the market with space and drive down rents. You simply can't build a building on spec these days (banks won't fund it and owners/developers stand to lose their shirts, literally). WSFS Bank center is moving forward because Morris James signed on before the merger was annouced, and WSFS is a minority owner of the building. The other two buildings (BCBS & Barclays) are single tenant buildings built to suit, and so rental rates are out of the picture. He knew full well there was a possibility that no tenants would sign on and he'd loose the purchase price and the lot. He took a chance and lost, that's business.

As for the historic buildings, aside from my favorite (the Coca~Cola one you mentioned), nearly all of the others have been so modified or are so generic that they hardly qualify as "historic" in my opinion. My view is a building should be saved if it is architecurally worthy of saving. Just because a building is old, doesn't make it worth saving. On the trolley tracks subject, there was a line down Market too, that the city wanted to re-lay and run trolleys again. Unfortunately that was shot down by merchants who complained it would remove parking and hurt business. Geniuses.

I think we agree on the 700 units, there is simply no way to fit that many on that parcel.

[Edit: Damn Joe, 4 A.M.?]

[Joey D]

Yes, 4 A.M.

I'm amazed that post came out that decent considering how drunk I was.

Then again, I'll be amazed if this reply comes out legitimately considering how drunk I am.

I won't be surprised if Jasonhouse slaps me with a P.U.I. (Posting Under the Influence.)

By the way, I was dismayed when I read the News Journal for the past two days. I was expecting to see some rendition of Justison Landing as a result of the introduction of the project to City COuncil two days ago.

It is quite possible I missed this, but since I don't see this on this thread, I take it the story has not yet been written up in the paper. I am more than interested to see the layout/plans of Justison Landing.

I'm crossing my fingers, and knocking on formica.

[Kitchen Guy]

Ignore this comment and scroll down for the corrected math. KG

2.5 acres is slightly less than 110,000sf
now for the assumptions:
1) 50% lot coverage net after roads, sidewalks and green stuff
2) 1,500sf per condo

700 condos x 1500 = 1,050,000sf
offices per the NJ = 300,000sf
retail = 75,000sf

1,425,000sf / 55,000sf bldg foot print gives us 26 storys plus parking levels.

look for collection of towers in the 30-45 story high range.

Now that's just math and opinion, I have no inside information. (yet)

[Joey D]

You better not have inside information and not tell us
(pounds fist repeatedly)

I think anything over 30 stories in this city is a little on the fantastic side, but it would be sweet, however embarassing if we have condos taller than our office towers.

But hey, what the hell.

[Kitchen Guy]

since they are at the bottom of the hill, they will look shorter than the business district.

you won't be able to see juniper or AAA from 95N anymore.

needs a better name though. what is a justison and why plural? 8)

[Kitchen Guy]

RE Trolly
if they had left market street a mall, they could have run a tram up and down, like they have on the boardwalk.