Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

+1, actually more like +1,195,194.

People who drive this are so stupid! There is one solution, driver education. It is so simple and would make a huge difference:

(1) if you are continuing straight on EB Glenmore coming from Signal Hill area, stay in the furthest LEFT lane. Do not change lanes over the causeway until past 14 St. DO NOT CHANGE LANES!!

(2) if you are coming from the East and want to go SB on 14th St, stay in the RIGHT Glenmore lane and change lanes over the causeway to merge onto 14 St. Change Lanes ONCE!!

(3) if you are coming from Crowchild and want to continue East on Glenmore, stay in the LEFT lane over the flyover and merge into the Right Hand Glenmore lane. Change Lanes ONCE!!

and finally,

(4) if you are coming from Crowchild and want to do SB on 14 St, stay in the RIGHT Lane from the flyover until 14 St. DO NOT CHANGE LANES!!

Nobody should be merging across more than 1 lane, yet the number of people who insist on traversing the entire width of the causeway during rush hour out of pure stupidity boggles my mind!

If the 78,000 people driving this everyday would follow these four simple steps, it would save at least 5 minutes for each person, and over millions of trips per year, even at minimum wage of $9.20/hour, that would be $21,827,000 of increased productivity and life happiness!!! Not to mention all the accidents that happen here. (I know I'm exaggerating)

The merge from SB Dfoot to EB Glenmore with EB Glenmore to NB Deerfoot is IMO the saddest of all traffic setups, oh that and no direct ramp NB Deerfoot to WB Glenmore!!

Sorry for the rant, it just grinds my gears how poorly people drive this stretch of road during a.m. rush hour, if only everyone had to take a mandatory Traffic/Transportation Engineering class to get their drivers licence..

It's not the drivers' fault the road is so poorly built. In fact the attitude of 'get in the lane you need as early as possible' is highly irritating. Roads should be built so that the default is to stay as far right as possible unless overtaking. The interchanges either side of the causeway also need basketweaves to remove the situation where the majority of traffic has to weave lanes in between.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by milomilo

It's not the drivers' fault the road is so poorly built. In fact the attitude of 'get in the lane you need as early as possible' is highly irritating. Roads should be built so that the default is to stay as far right as possible unless overtaking. The interchanges either side of the causeway also need basketweaves to remove the situation where the majority of traffic has to weave lanes in between.

Don't get me wrong, the design of this stretch of road is a joke. I'm not defending it by any means, but given the current situation, if people followed one of the 4 options outlined above, it would improve the flow. The unnecessary, double lane switching is making the problem worse than it needs to be.

[YYCguys]

So why do people feel the need to drive 30 km/hr whilst exiting NB Shag onto EB Stoney and then come to a complete stop at the merge point? And this is AFTER the roads had been plowed and were clear and no traffic in the EB lane! Just about caused an accident!

[Full Mountain]

I'll take a Cancer Centre and new schools over the SWRR.

That said I think there could be a case made for a road through this area, only one with four lanes and a few sets of lights, no need to build any more than 2 interchanges on the whole thing at this point (Glenmore & 16th and 16th is debatable). No one in government has proven the need for a grade separated roadway scalable to 16 lanes, not on the existing sections let alone this one.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Here the devil's advocate on you for this. I know this won't be a popular opinion around here but I believe it represents a lot of people's thoughts on it. $5 billion is a big number (and I'm personally still skeptical it will come that total). Everyone will say that they believe they know the best way to spend this money. Paid over 30 years like other P3 projects, I still think it's a good investment for the SW.

If we're looking at congestion in Calgary and the solutions to improve it, the Glenmore causeway is a bottleneck for the SW more than any other project currently being looked at in the City, and there isn't a simple solution to fix it. The SW Ring Road is a desperately needed part of the road network in the area and would greatly improve inter-city travel times in the quadrant.

If you don't believe that's a big enough source of traffic, then you're full of it. The daily gridlock of that road in the morning and afternoon daily (including weekends!) is certainly not something that can be fixed with more lanes. There needs to be more ways to get around the area. Traffic will use the more efficient route if it exists.

Most of the alternatives being proposed abandon the SW to fulfill transit desires in other quadrants of the City using this provincial/federal money. The province has a mandate to complete the ring roads in Edmonton and Calgary, and it would be sad to have it mostly finished and become the next Circle Drive (which wasn't a circle until just recently).

Is there a north central bottleneck with no alternatives? Will the SE never proceed without this money being diverted? No. Transit is good to have, but halting progress on the most widely use mode of transportation and making a bottleneck even worse over the long term is not the solution because people are being scared by a larger than expected number. We can't expect a complete 180 in the general population in how they move around a City of this size, and this is coming from someone who would prefer to take Transit more than drive. I just don't see any solution being presented that helps make getting from around COP down to Glenmore/Macleod or destinations further South any better, and it's frustrating.

I moved from Signal Hill to Canyon Meadows years ago solely to remove Glenmore from my commute, and I'm very glad for it! I still travel 14th/Glenmore/Sarcee regularly though, and it still sucks. There has to be more options if one accident can paralyze the entire area.

Totally agree with you on this.
And for God's sake don't build it with lights instead of interchanges, I hope we've learned that lesson.
Now that there is finally an agreement with the Nation, the SWRR needs to be built.

[lineman]

Not to mention the shrinking cost of fuelling all that earthwork equipment could maybe reduce the final tally.

[Joborule]

Considering how difficult of a process it has been to even get a deal with the reserve, and the province is on a tight deadline to get it done, I figure the debate on whether the road should be built now or not is pointless. Build the thing now when you finally have the opportunity after decades of trying, and don't have to deal with pulling teeth once again in the future when it's needed even moreso.

There's always going to be projects that need to be built in the present, but aren't because there isn't enough funds for it at the moment. The Green line will get it's day (soon I imagine to if province and federal government can be convinced), but we still need roads and freeways as a method of a transportation.

The SWRR is a very important piece of infrastructure that will have positive effect on freight and commute movement in the entire SW quadrant. Even if the road wasn't needed now, it would need to be at some point, and with the conditions of the deal, it needs to be done now before the opportunity is lost. Quite frankly, this is probably going to be the final major freeway project for the city; aside from revamping Deerfoot's chokepoints. I suppose Crowchild between 17th ave S to 24th Ave N as well.

[pulkit10]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Considering how difficult of a process it has been to even get a deal with the reserve, and the province is on a tight deadline to get it done, I figure the debate on whether the road should be built now or not is pointless. Build the thing now when you finally have the opportunity after decades of trying, and don't have to deal with pulling teeth once again in the future when it's needed even moreso.

There's always going to be projects that need to be built in the present, but aren't because there isn't enough funds for it at the moment. The Green line will get it's day (soon I imagine to if province and federal government can be convinced), but we still need roads and freeways as a method of a transportation.

The SWRR is a very important piece of infrastructure that will have positive effect on freight and commute movement in the entire SW quadrant. Even if the road wasn't needed now, it would need to be at some point, and with the conditions of the deal, it needs to be done now before the opportunity is lost. Quite frankly, this is probably going to be the final major freeway project for the city; aside from revamping Deerfoot's chokepoints. I suppose Crowchild between 17th ave S to 24th Ave N as well.

I agree, if it isn't done right the first time around, it'll just snowball into this overblown project later on that'll cause more distruptions for the city. The money has sort of already been allocated for the project, might as well go ahead with it and do it properly instead of "fixing" it 5 years down the road like NE Stoney.

@Acey: sorry, I respectfully disagree. 16th Ave is one of the major interchanges on E stoney. If they knew SE Stoney required more than 3 lanes, they should have also known that they needed to upgrade NE Stoney up until 16th Ave right away. This is like them reducing 3 to 2 lanes at the Glenmore interchange and citing the same reason - namely "we didn't know it was going to be used this much". I'm sorry, but what's wrong with doing it right the first time around? Surely, painting that extra lane in wouldn't have been that hard considering SE Stoney was already a few months behind the scheduled opening date.

I realize that this is starting to sound petty but it is incredibly frustrating to sit in 30 minutes of traffic on a BRAND NEW highway that they've spent billions on only to cock it up by not painting lines on it properly.

[RWin]

Originally Posted by lineman

Not to mention the shrinking cost of fuelling all that earthwork equipment could maybe reduce the final tally.

Asphalt should be cheaper too.

[MalcolmTucker]

I figure the debate on whether the road should be built now or not is pointless.

Pretty much. No political party has come out against. Going through the reserve is the consensus. The horse left the barn a few years ago.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

So why do people feel the need to drive 30 km/hr whilst exiting NB Shag onto EB Stoney and then come to a complete stop at the merge point? And this is AFTER the roads had been plowed and were clear and no traffic in the EB lane! Just about caused an accident!

There is certainly no finer example of the need to retest drivers once in a while than the struggles some drivers face merging onto freeways in Calgary. I feel like 16th Avenue onto NB Deerfoot is the worst offender with the extra long ramp giving no excuse to anyone.

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

I'll take a Cancer Centre and new schools over the SWRR.

That said I think there could be a case made for a road through this area, only one with four lanes and a few sets of lights, no need to build any more than 2 interchanges on the whole thing at this point (Glenmore & 16th and 16th is debatable). No one in government has proven the need for a grade separated roadway scalable to 16 lanes, not on the existing sections let alone this one.

I like to think we've learned from the mistakes made on Anthony Henday SW and will never install traffic lights on a ring road again. They regretted that decision almost immediately and are still making up for it to this day on that stretch.

[Socguy]

On the radio today: Prentice was giving a speech at some luncheon or other (sorry no link) when he was asked about large capital projects such as the SWRR in conjunction with the current budget situation. He mentioned that all large projects will have to be reviewed, and while the RR can't really be cancelled, it may have to be scaled back...

[joe498]

Calgary’s southwest ring road ‘on the list’ of projects that could be delayed: Prentice

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/126...ayed-prentice/

[MalcolmTucker]

Don't worry people. Everything is fine, nothing is ruined.

You can't really go and say the road is protected when you're reviewing cancer care and hospitals.

[craner]

I'm not sure why Prentice would even bring this up right now? Federal approval hasn't even been granted yet, by the time it is oil could be back up in price and it's business as usual.
I wouldn't want anything to put the deal with the nation in jeopardy.

[Cage]

I have a strong suspicion the people of Alberta are getting greased up the arse for an eventual BOHICA for either significant tax regime change (e.g. removal of flat tax) and/or PST.

It will be along the lines of want if you want schools, hospitals, advanced health care, roads, LRT/Transit, etc, etc, etc; then prepare give up a lot more cash to the province.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by craner

I'm not sure why Prentice would even bring this up right now? Federal approval hasn't even been granted yet, by the time it is oil could be back up in price and it's business as usual.
I wouldn't want anything to put the deal with the nation in jeopardy.

Sometimes politicians have to answer questions they don't want to answer.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by Cage

It will be along the lines of want if you want schools, hospitals, advanced health care, roads, LRT/Transit, etc, etc, etc; then prepare give up a lot more cash to the province.

Asking people to pay for what services they want is very-anti Albertan. They should take that nonsense back to the socialist wastes of Norway.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I still think it will proceed. I think if it comes to it the Nation and the Province may agree to a delay, but something in me still says it will continue. (I would point out that not agreeing to a delay, providing the Federal government does approve the land transfer, would provide a short-term benefit for the Nation, but would mean missing out on a massive long-term development opportunity. I would say that the Nation may be very open to a delay as long as it meant the road would be built.)

It's advantageous to do it now while the economy is lower since they aren't paying for it all up front, and things like labour/fuel/asphalt/concrete prices will all be lower. I'm sure they're reviewing it, but I'm also guessing it will still go through.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by craner

I'm not sure why Prentice would even bring this up right now? Federal approval hasn't even been granted yet, by the time it is oil could be back up in price and it's business as usual.
I wouldn't want anything to put the deal with the nation in jeopardy.

Really? I think it is a horrible deal, and if the Federal "condition" can be leveraged to get out of it, I'd be extremely happy. I would still consider the West portion, though scaled back given the current climate.