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  #61  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
i get what you are saying about tech and science, someone123, but i think the whole reverse snobbery that goes on there is a bit misguided. i mean, as long as one wears clothes, one is expressing themselves through fashion. it can't be helped. you can't opt out, and the whole "i don't care about fashion" look is merely that: a look. another look among many.
While I get what you're saying, I respectfully disagree in one sense. There are plenty of people out there who are in no way trying for a "look" - they're just dressing in a way that is comfortable. Assuming everyone is making an attempt to "express themselves" is a little like saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby. Like it or not, some people simply don't care. Does the end result count as a "look"? Of course - but only to people such as yourself who care in the first place.

At no point in my life have I ever even given a thought about wearing my hikers in public. I'm not trying to be ironic, or make a statement, and I sure as hell didn't wear them at 13 (around that age, I was insisting on "leather" slip-ons so that I could look cool and fashionable everywhere I went). No, I don't wear them in a 3 piece suit (duh) - but they're my go-to especially in a city that sees snow 9 months out of the year on average. Maybe some of you simply don't dress casual very often.

Don't get me wrong, I have my fashion No-Nos. Socks and shorts is a big one for me. It's always bothered me for some reason.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Are you sure you are a North American?
Well, ok, I've never seen many people without major mental disabilities (or hipster forced-irony) walking around in dress pants and Nikes.

Better?

I mean, my god - I work in a very casual office (or so I thought) - but a pair of slacks (I hate that term, but it works) and running shoes would generally mean a person gets sent home to change. Where do you people go where there are hordes of men in dress pants and sneakers running around?
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  #63  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramako View Post
Exactly. If someone puts no effort into how they dress, that doesn't tell you that they're necessarily a bad person or not worth socializing with, but it certainly tells you one of a few things: (a) that person is ignorant of how others perceive them, (b) that person cares about how others perceive them but has no fashion sense, (c) that person doesn't care about how others perceive them at that moment in time, (d) that person can't afford to dress better, or (e) that person is lazy. One way or another, information about that person is being broadcast.
some of us are purely unconsious of how we look aparently i look like a scruffy bum or somthing i duno how or what but it cost me a career yesterday so i dunno sigh
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  #64  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I suspect the main purpose of "business casual" attire is to create office drones.
Business casual is far more comfortable than business business, and is becoming the prominent office dress at least in the midwest US outside of the most dominant financial districts and hubs of lawerly activity. Cotton is nice when you don't have the access to the booze to dull the feel of a starched collar at 2:47 PM.

I work in the engineering/geotechnical side of things - which is a hub of unspeakable acts of fashion violence. I'm wearing running shoes right now - primarily because my leather office shoes were contaminated by some pretty heinous incinerator ash. So it goes.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:15 PM
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Jeans and t-shirts is acceptable in the office where I work (engineers and architects). So that's pretty much what I wear everyday. Maybe a proper button down shirt with collar when necessary, but never fancier than that.

If you come to work in a suit here, people figure you have a job interview.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
Jeans and t-shirts is acceptable in the office where I work (engineers and architects). So that's pretty much what I wear everyday. Maybe a proper button down shirt with collar when necessary, but never fancier than that.

If you come to work in a suit here, people figure you have a job interview.
I work for an environmental firm next door to a huge mega engineering firm - khaky shorts (with dangly faux rip stringy strings) and flip flops are standard amongst the 20 and even 30 something employees. I actually am continually surprised by the casual dress...i'm waiting to see a guy walk out with pizza sauce (or something worse) on his fruit of the looms.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Personally I am just suspicious of fashion as a tool to enforce conformity and social hierarchy. I've never heard a good argument for why Italian shoes and suits are fundamentally better items of clothing.

Aesthetics. Considering we're on an architecturally-focused site, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to see how caring about the aesthetics of buildings and streetscapes can be translated to apply to clothing?
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  #68  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
If you come to work in a suit here, people figure you have a job interview.
I've always worked in some tech related field and employees that dress up are automatically assumed to be coming from a job interview or funeral, and strangers who dress up are assumed to be smarmy salespeople, or HR consultants there to lay you off. I haven't owned a suit since the mid 90s.

I wear shorts and Tevas to work almost everyday because they are comfortable and low maintenance, nothing more. West coast casual is even more casual.

What is the appeal of getting dressed up to go to a restaurant or bar? Aren't these supposed to be fun activities?
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  #69  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by begratto View Post
In Montreal, someone wearing sneakers with professional-looking clothes is instantly identified as a visitor from another province.

A montrealer would never do it (honestly!), even while riding a Bixi bike or if she/he has to walk 5 km to get to work. It just isn't done.

So are shoes disposable in Montreal? How can you you walk or bike long distances without destroying them? What about winter?
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  #70  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Aesthetics. Considering we're on an architecturally-focused site, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to see how caring about the aesthetics of buildings and streetscapes can be translated to apply to clothing?
What is the aesthetic argument?
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  #71  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
that east vs west canadian bifurcation playing out in shoe-ways?

Does Canada have a city where the east and west overlaps in a way, such as Kerouac's mid century Chicago?

Winnipegish?
Sort of Calgary. The East definately ends at Calgary but where the West begins is more ambiguous. Kind of like Denver.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post

for montrealers, the city is an end in and of itself. torontonians are becoming like this too. here, the city is the spectacle, the city is the activity. just the city itself. as such, people live more publicly (and don't go out in merrill hiking sneakers ever. seriously. i haven't seen one pair yet. oh, ottawa.)
That's well put. I share the same sentiment about Mtl.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 10:00 PM
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Can I wear Merrel dress shoes? Merrel is comfortable like no others...
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  #74  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by begratto View Post
In Montreal, someone wearing sneakers with professional-looking clothes is instantly identified as a visitor from another province.

A montrealer would never do it (honestly!), even while riding a Bixi bike or if she/he has to walk 5 km to get to work. It just isn't done.
True. Thank God!
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  #75  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kw5150 View Post
Cool. Who cares.
You, obviously.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
that east vs west canadian bifurcation playing out in shoe-ways?

Does Canada have a city where the east and west overlaps in a way, such as Kerouac's mid century Chicago?

Winnipegish?
I have never been to Winnipeg, but it seems to fit the part.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin Mtl View Post
I have never been to Winnipeg, but it seems to fit the part.
Not really. The west doesn't emerge bit by bit from the east in Canada, as it does by gradations in the USA. Instead it bursts up instantaneously out of nowhere, already quite fully formed, at a point on the highway about seven miles west of Falcon Lake.

If there's one city in the country that could be said to be culturally and psychologically both east and west, it's Kenora, which was once simultaneously represented in both the Manitoba and Ontario legislatures.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug View Post
Sort of Calgary. The East definately ends at Calgary but where the West begins is more ambiguous. Kind of like Denver.
In the US the last vestiges of the East make their final rest somewhere up the dirty riverbank in St. Louis but you don't catch up with the ghost of the west until Kansas City, where there is a type of "Pillars of Hercules" which is a gap cut into the bluff through which the Interstate 70 was snaked. Beyond which there is a kind of badlands that the flyovers flyover. Denver is fully formed western. South of St. Louis this east to west graduation gets real weird with places like Nashville and "old west" themeparks in the Ozarks.

I guess I thought Winnipeg had both kinds of ghosts. I'm learning about Canada.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 10:44 PM
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IMO, Winnipeg isn't all that western...though it has elements of it.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Personally I don't care what people wear, but I am just suspicious of fashion as a tool used to enforce conformity and social hierarchies. I've never heard a good argument for why Italian shoes and suits are fundamentally better items of clothing. I think they're popular because poor people can't afford them. I suspect the main purpose of "business casual" attire is to create office drones.


i don't know. i don't think it's all empty snobbery. there are elements of craftsmanship and aesthetics that become apparent if and as you develop an interest in things like shoes and suits or whatever. it's like skyscrapers. ordinary people might not see the difference between mies' td centre and lame, late '70s imitation -- but we would. and once you see it, you can't unsee it.

i think a lot of canadians are just kind of pragmatic, outdoorsy people. that's great. but montreal is an exception to that rule, and those of us who like montreal tend to hold this quality in some regard.
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