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  #61  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 2:33 PM
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To give another example, if you were looking at Saskatchewan, Newfoundland, and Nova Scotia, would you pair Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia and say that Newfoundland is the outlier? That view would be hard to justify, but one reasonable interpretation of a consequence of arguing that Newfoundland is very distinct from the rest of Canada.
Couldn't agree more with you. The idea that Newfoundland is an outlier in Canada doesn't resist scrutiny.

Similarly, in an alternate history with Manitoba and New Brunswick as unilingual francophone provinces, you'd have nowadays a culturally common environment between those and Quebec, and a pattern of people travel/resettlement (i.e. typical Quebecois will have relatives in those two provinces) helping two-way exchanges of culture, so in that type of Canada, Quebec wouldn't be an outlier either.
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  #62  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 2:45 PM
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'Its the End of the World' is a Newfoundland song because there's a remake of the REM song from there?
...sort of fitting I guess since Newfoundland is kind of as far you can go from everywhere in North America.

This got me thinking, what would be a quintessential famous song from each province.
If looking at how often classic songs are featured in pop culture,
I'd say for Alberta it maybe would be this song(?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggKx5QGwlVs

...for Manitoba maybe this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnZedlazWvE

...and for Saskatchewan its a toss up between:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTMFMcsf0hw

but I think its probably this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EXy_4uYyOk

...based on the sheer number of covers/sampling like from Janet Jackson, Amy Grant, and Counting Crows ft Vanessa Carlton etc etc.
Can Up Where We Belong really be said to be a "quintessential song from Saskatchewan"? I wasn't even aware until now that Buffy Ste-Marie co-wrote it (with two Americans).

So are we talking about songs "from" a place or "about" a place?

The most well known song "from" Quebec worldwide is probably Hallelujah by Leonard Cohen. (But it's not really "about" Quebec or even Montreal.)

The most well known song sung by someone from Quebec is probably My Heart Will Go On by Céline Dion. (Not about Quebec or Montreal either.)

Of course, there are tons of songs both "from" and "about" Quebec and places in the provinces that are "quintessential" and well known beyond our borders across the French-speaking world.
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  #63  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 2:47 PM
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Couldn't agree more with you. The idea that Newfoundland is an outlier in Canada doesn't resist scrutiny.

Similarly, in an alternate history with Manitoba and New Brunswick as unilingual francophone provinces, you'd have nowadays a culturally common environment between those and Quebec, and a pattern of people travel/resettlement (i.e. typical Quebecois will have relatives in those two provinces) helping two-way exchanges of culture, so in that type of Canada, Quebec wouldn't be an outlier either.
In the Canadian family, Newfoundland is like a weird, eccentric brother.

Quebec is more like a cousin.
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  #64  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 2:50 PM
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The quintessential Alberta song IMO. Not by Albertans BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W--5urrdUsU
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  #65  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 2:52 PM
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The quintessential Ontario song. By an Ontarian. Two mentions of the U.S. but none of Ontario. Though it does mention bodies of water in Ontario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vST6hVRj2A
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  #66  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 2:52 PM
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 3:44 PM
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The quintessential Alberta song IMO. Not by Albertans BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W--5urrdUsU
That would have been my suggestion.

In Manitoba's case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYtvzGWBBP4
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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 3:58 PM
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That would have been my suggestion.

In Manitoba's case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYtvzGWBBP4
I knew it before clicking on the link!
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  #69  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 4:00 PM
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Hard to not pick this for PEI, even if it's not everyone's style:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FqoiRgMpeM
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  #70  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 5:04 PM
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  #71  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 5:10 PM
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NB's a hard one to pin down.

Not sure people in Saint John, Minto, Sussex and Woodstock would feel represented by that - and there's a lot more of them than people like Mr. Leblanc.

But yeah, the NB I know it would be something like that. Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi0E4qNGmGE
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 6:13 PM
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these are selling like hotcakes on the Mainland!

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  #73  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Couldn't agree more with you. The idea that Newfoundland is an outlier in Canada doesn't resist scrutiny.

Similarly, in an alternate history with Manitoba and New Brunswick as unilingual francophone provinces, you'd have nowadays a culturally common environment between those and Quebec, and a pattern of people travel/resettlement (i.e. typical Quebecois will have relatives in those two provinces) helping two-way exchanges of culture, so in that type of Canada, Quebec wouldn't be an outlier either.
That is true although as it is NB has some Francophone parts that are more like regions of Quebec than they are like some other parts of NB. I also don't believe that Quebec is the most unique province in every way. From an Atlantic perspective for example there is some "Central Canada" stuff it shares with Ontario that the Atlantic provinces do not. These differences are mostly invisible to people not from Atlantic Canada.

Personally, I imagine a high-dimensional space that has an axis for every kind of difference you can articulate. The provinces are just averages but you can put them somewhere in the space. Quebec is probably the farthest away from the others, but not necessarily along every axis. And then for Atlantic Canada you would find that they are closer to each other than they are to other provinces.

To be perfectly honest I think Francophones in Quebec often make a mistake when they think language is the characteristic that determines a huge variety of other differences. You can be more or less similar to people who speak another language. You can be more similar (not just in a vague way but in terms of concrete interests, political or otherwise) to somebody who speaks a different language than to somebody who shares your language. I agree that language is important though and that it is intertwined with culture. If you try to view Canada through nothing but the English-French lens all the time though you will miss a lot.
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  #74  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 8:43 PM
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New Brunswick is a tough one. It's Canada in a microcosm - bilingual with each Anglophone region having it's own identity as well. There is no one cultural identity that fits for the entire province.

The strongest cultural identity is certainly the Acadian one (just like the Quebecois identity is the strongest in Canada). There is a coastal anglo-Maritime identity extending from the Fundy region up to the Miramichi (skipping Kent County). The inland Saint John River area including Fredericton has a weird combo New England/Upper Canadian identity.

We all get along though, mostly by not trying to offend our neighbours. Just like the Canadian experience as a whole.
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  #75  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 9:15 PM
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Where does "Out for a Rip" fit into all of this? *Swearing*

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  #76  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 9:24 PM
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That is true although as it is NB has some Francophone parts that are more like regions of Quebec than they are like some other parts of NB. I also don't believe that Quebec is the most unique province in every way. From an Atlantic perspective for example there is some "Central Canada" stuff it shares with Ontario that the Atlantic provinces do not. These differences are mostly invisible to people not from Atlantic Canada.

Personally, I imagine a high-dimensional space that has an axis for every kind of difference you can articulate. The provinces are just averages but you can put them somewhere in the space. Quebec is probably the farthest away from the others, but not necessarily along every axis. And then for Atlantic Canada you would find that they are closer to each other than they are to other provinces.

To be perfectly honest I think Francophones in Quebec often make a mistake when they think language is the characteristic that determines a huge variety of other differences. You can be more or less similar to people who speak another language. You can be more similar (not just in a vague way but in terms of concrete interests, political or otherwise) to somebody who speaks a different language than to somebody who shares your language. I agree that language is important though and that it is intertwined with culture. If you try to view Canada through nothing but the English-French lens all the time though you will miss a lot.
This will support your argument in one way but dispute it in another.

Socially speaking, I often find I have more commonalities with Anglo-Quebecers than I do with francophones from outside Quebec. This includes some members of my own family.

In social gatherings, it seems to me that the Anglo-Quebecers I am friends with actually fit in more easily than Franco-Ontarians do. Of course, these are long-established anglos from Quebec who've lived here all their lives, often have francophone spouses and speak decent French.

There are of course Franco-Ontarians who do fit in with people from Quebec extremely seamlessly. You're more likely to meet them in Ottawa/Eastern Ontario than other parts of the province, but even in those areas it's not the majority of them that are like this.

In fairness, francophones from northern NB fit in with Quebecers pretty seamlessly too on a social level.

Acadians from SE NB and Acadians from the rest of the Maritimes are more like Franco-Ontarians though.
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  #77  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 11:34 PM
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To be perfectly honest I think Francophones in Quebec often make a mistake when they think language is the characteristic that determines a huge variety of other differences. You can be more or less similar to people who speak another language. You can be more similar (not just in a vague way but in terms of concrete interests, political or otherwise) to somebody who speaks a different language than to somebody who shares your language. I agree that language is important though and that it is intertwined with culture. If you try to view Canada through nothing but the English-French lens all the time though you will miss a lot.
The question of whether language overrides all the other cultural, political or social differences between various peoples is interesting. Does an average suburban-living Francophone Quebecois have more in common with a fresh off the boat immigrant from a distant part of the Francophonie, say, a Senegalese who is fluent in French but has just only recently been exposed to western culture, than another average suburban-living Anglophone Vancouverite who has never been east of the Rockies and never spoken a lick of French past his schoolkid days?

On the other hand, you can argue that language is really important.

After all, imagine you have several people that have tons in common, culturally they share similar ways of living like cooking, dressing, music, etc. and politically they agree on all the hot topics (eg. both are equally left or right wing), both enjoy the same hobbies, and have similar outlooks on life. But if these people don't speak a lick of each others' languages, how will they even communicate to get to know each other enough well enough to find out?
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  #78  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 2:41 AM
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After all, imagine you have several people that have tons in common, culturally they share similar ways of living like cooking, dressing, music, etc. and politically they agree on all the hot topics (eg. both are equally left or right wing), both enjoy the same hobbies, and have similar outlooks on life. But if these people don't speak a lick of each others' languages, how will they even communicate to get to know each other enough well enough to find out?
They might communicate indirectly like through a national election or plebiscite. In a situation like that, having some common ground becomes really important, and this happens in Canada (or in the EU or Belgium or Switzerland) all the time. You might have somebody in Quebec who only speaks French and somebody in Ontario who only speaks English but in reality they share almost all of the same values and so they can agree on common rules, whereas they might struggle to find common ground with somebody from a distant foreign country who happens to speak the same language. I would argue that Canada tends to work remarkably well despite having two official languages, and opinions on political issues in Canada often don't break along English-French lines.
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  #79  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 6:07 AM
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And I have to add that the two members of Sons of Maxwell (Don and Dave Carroll) are originally from Timmins, ON!!!
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  #80  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 6:35 AM
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This to me is the ultimate Saskatchewan song!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_L9tXEwmc
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