Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[Dengler Avenue]

Now that I think about it, though, there are quite a few issues with forcibly converting Hunt Club Road into a freeway:
(1) Connection with 416 - It may not be hard to build a partial system interchange there but definitely not easy either;
(2) 90-degree turn near the rail - MTO hates that;
(3) Airport Parkway - Building a system interchange with a twinned Airport Parkway with that little space is near impossible.

There are simply too many crossroads, many of which require dual left-turn lanes. It may be a sign that even roundabouts won’t help.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

People trying to beat the light?

When people have been sitting in the traffic for 10 minutes at the same light just waiting to turn left, they tend to do crazy things. It is not uncommon to see 2-3 cars make a left turn right after a light turns red. Some drivers are pushing it more than others.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by qprcanada

Having driven in the UK, Spain, and France there are many multi-lane roundabouts where 4 or more multi-lane roads intersect.

We aren't UK, Spain, or France and our drivers aren't nearly as skilled.

St. Joseph Blvd. and Jeanne D'Arc in Orleans is a roundabout with two 4-lane roads, so it can be done here.

Hunt Club and Riverside is significantly busier than St. Joseph Blvd. and Jeanne D'Arc. As others have said, the issue with Hunt Club and Riverside is that it is well above capacity. A roundabout won't change that (they have about the same capacity as a traffic light).

[danishh]

moving up the fallowfield bridge could help with the capacity issue.

beyond that, i'm not really sure this intersection (or POW/WHC) could be modified to increase capacity. There's not enough land protected to grade separate most of the turns.

I threw around the idea of a hunt club bridge bypass along the rail corridor a few pages ago, connecting at riverside and again at hunt club and cleopatra. That would also cut times by bypassing the merivale business district. It's technically feasible but needs a bunch of expropriation.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by le calmar

When people have been sitting in the traffic for 10 minutes at the same light just waiting to turn left, they tend to do crazy things. It is not uncommon to see 2-3 cars make a left turn right after a light turns red. Some drivers are pushing it more than others.

This is what I’m noticing in York Region during rush hour: After the advanced green lights are done, all 4 directions get a solid 3 seconds of red lights before the green lights for the through traffic goes off. I’m conjecturing that it’s because people try to beat the light and end up going on a red. Then again, York Region surprisingly doesn’t have that many dual left-turn lanes, so what works there doesn’t necessarily work here.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by danishh

moving up the fallowfield bridge could help with the capacity issue.

beyond that, i'm not really sure this intersection (or POW/WHC) could be modified to increase capacity. There's not enough land protected to grade separate most of the turns.

A while back a Carleton prof got a 4th year engineering group to analyze and design a continuous flow intersection (also called a crossover displaced left-turn, look it up) at this location. The displaced left turns would be added for the N-S directions at Prince of Wales and at Riverside. It worked well to increase capacity, but I don't think its worth it - we should continue to focus on transit over these kinds of road expansion projects. OR if we must spend the money on roads i would support diffusing traffic by funding the Fallowfield-Leitrim bridge.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Time for the legendary Ottawa Freeway Bypass to replace Hunt Club

I don't think we need to go that far. We just need to fix the following critical intersections with Hunt Club. IMHO, in order of priority, those are:

• Riverside Drive,
• Woodroffe,
• Prince of Wails Drive

The other intersections aren't that bad (yet).

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Something a la Decarie to sink the freeway and keep collectors on each side for accessing Hunt Club businesses would do the trick. I imagine that ship has sailed though....

For the intersection with Riverside Drive, since Hunt Club descends to the intersection from the bridge, and Riverside Drive rises up to the intersection from the north, having Hunt Club pass over Riverside wouldn't be that difficult. They could then either have a double diamond exchange or have ramps to/from Hunt club to roundabouts on Riverside, north and south of the overpass to eliminate the need for cloverleafs.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by roger1818

For the intersection with Riverside Drive, since Hunt Club descends to the intersection from the bridge, and Riverside Drive rises up to the intersection from the north, having Hunt Club pass over Riverside wouldn't be that difficult. They could then either have a double diamond exchange or have ramps to/from Hunt club to roundabouts on Riverside, north and south of the overpass to eliminate the need for cloverleafs.

It's actually the opposite; Hunt Club is ascending coming from the bridge to Riverside.

It might be easier to make Riverside pass over Hunt Club but it's a really difficult intersection and the commercial entrance close by to the south and (soon) to the north make things really difficult.

I've always wondered whether this intersection would make a good place for a Center Turning Overpass. AFAIK they are completely theoretical however; none has been built.

[Dengler Avenue]

I have a feeling that people might abuse it and try to use it as a queue jumper for through traffic.

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I've always wondered whether this intersection would make a good place for a Center Turning Overpass. AFAIK they are completely theoretical however; none has been built.

Now that’s a capital idea!

[danishh]

i'm trying to imagine the snowplows on that thing

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by danishh

i'm trying to imagine the snowplows on that thing

Funny, but that was one of the first things I thought about.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

Funny, but that was one of the first things I thought about.

I thought about that too but if you look at the cross-section on that site, the structure would be 12 metres wide for 2 lanes. I think there would be enough of a buffer for snow storage. It would probably need some kind of built in de-icing system though.

I'm not sure how you stop people from driving straight through on the overpass. But you could implement a protected intersection at the surface to significantly improve pedestrian and cycling movements.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I thought about that too but if you look at the cross-section on that site, the structure would be 12 metres wide for 2 lanes. I think there would be enough of a buffer for snow storage. It would probably need some kind of built in de-icing system though.

I'm not sure how you stop people from driving straight through on the overpass. But you could implement a protected intersection at the surface to significantly improve pedestrian and cycling movements.

It would be pretty hard to drive straight through, as when you have a green light on the top level the opposing traffic is also turning left.

My concern (on top of the winter maintenance issue) is that the turning requirements of large trucks would make that top intersection much larger than you'd initially think is required.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

It would be pretty hard to drive straight through, as when you have a green light on the top level the opposing traffic is also turning left.

My concern (on top of the winter maintenance issue) is that the turning requirements of large trucks would make that top intersection much larger than you'd initially think is required.

True. There could be a ground-level left turn lane for trucks only but then that ends up making the space required much larger.

[AR-OTT]

I'm sure an equivalent to a red light camera would work to prevent misuse. If a car is detected to be leaving the intersection from an exit that has a red light, take a picture of the license and send the ticket to the driver. Maybe the first offense could just be a warning since this is a non conventional intersection and there are bound to be some honest mistake offenders.

[TransitZilla]

I'm not 100% sure a CTO is workable but I think it's worth exploring. I don't think it's realistic to think that Hunt Club will ever be a full freeway (nor do I think it should become one), but some strategic grade separations could provide a lot of benefit.

The CTO would probably be much easier to implement at Hunt Club & Prince of Wales, where you don't have other signalized intersections within a couple of hundred metres of the intersection.

[danishh]

that's a good point about trucks.

Hunt Club, Riverside, and PoW are all truck routes.

[daud]

last week on Friday at 3PM I drove from Conroy on Hunt Club to Riverside. That stretch took 35 minutes and less than 5 minutes from Conroy to Bank.

Southbound from Walkley is blocked regular and I think Eastbound gets really blocked up too.

I would call the intersection really bad-maybe not critical but it is only going to get worse unfortunately. I don't see any quick fixes, certainly not more residential/commercial development in the NW corner.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Brian Coburn Extension / Cumberland Transitway Westerly Alternate Corridor EA Study

https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/publi...ridor-ea-study

Brian Coburn Extension / Cumberland Transitway Westerly Alternate Corridor EA Study Nov 2019 Public Open House display board
https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/do...ssement_en.pdf