London Public Transit

[TheGenuineArticle]

It's so great to see the LTC improving with these basic but essential express routes honestly if you could increase the headway on both of these and add one to run Dundas and down Spring bank the LTC would almost be a bearable system! (ok maybe with some late night runs too )

[ssiguy]

Reality is that we all love to bitch about our transit services.

Whether the service is brand new and massive like Shanghai or completely dread full near non-existent like in many US cities there is always something we all love to bitch about with our transit services.

Reality is thou, that short of the LTC's midnight curfew, the transit system is quite good in London for a city it's size and the ridership levels are the third highest in the province both in actual numbers and percentage wise. Much larger Hamilton and Kitchener still has fewer riders than London.

[tyeman200]

I would have to partially agree on that. I think it's good, but at the same time it's still pretty bad. I just think the way all the routes are planned out, it looks like a mess. They should also redo some of the arrival times, I don't know how many times I missed a bus I was supposed to transfer on by 1 minute or so. Plus, purchasing more 60FT buses, for the busier routes. I think there's 13 of them, but we could definitely use some more.

I think the best transit system I've ever seen, was in Montreal. Buses came every 5 minutes, & were pretty fast getting you from point A to B.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Reality is thou, that short of the LTC's midnight curfew, the transit system is quite good in London for a city it's size and the ridership levels are the third highest in the province both in actual numbers and percentage wise. Much larger Hamilton and Kitchener still has fewer riders than London.

I wouldn't mind seeing the source for your ridership numbers. I'm genuinely curious to see the comparisons.

I think part of the reason why London has such high ridership is because of

a)The large population of students in the center, north, and near west of the City, and
b) The large population of destitute people in the east and south of the City

The fact that student transit passes are so heavily subsidized doesn't hurt, either.

[jaradthescot]

I have no idea how much difference these surveys actually make, but here's an officially sanctioned customer satisfaction service that asks some very relevant questions:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/letstalktransit

[ssiguy]

Here are the ridership stats:

London 2012..........23.4 million
Hamilton 2012........21.8 million
Kitchener 2013..........21 million

Mississauga has higher ridership at 34.8 {2012} but it's hardly a fair comparison as it serves twice the population and thousands of other GTA residents.

London only serves 375,000 which is significantly less than Hamilton {about 500,000} or Kitchener {about 450,000}.

[HillStreetBlues]

London and Kitchener’s metros are both about equal (Waterloo Region is a bit larger by now). I’m unsure about ridership gains on the LTC lately (although the annual report this year suggested they have been stagnant in the very recent past), but they have been pretty rapid for the GRT in the last decade or so. Hamilton’s system has a lot of problems…

I feel like the LTC still behaves like a “social service” system that has priorities other than just providing great transportation. Like many other cities in Ontario (Waterloo and in particular Hamilton included), a lot of circuitous and illogical lines are maintained in neighbourhoods that probably aren’t dense enough to support them. These lines take resources from parts of the city that could justify frequent and efficient service, and have prevented the establishment of new, higher-frequency lines on main corridors.

It seems like the LTC is starting to “get” it and is finally starting to move towards offering some express service, but I wonder what will happen if the LTC ever starts getting serious about redeploying buses from neighbourhood routes that serve very few people, to nearby corridors that would require a bit longer walks to access fast and frequent services that are useful for more riders. Again, this isn’t a problem just in London, but a quick glance at the LTC map shows plenty of opportunity to do that. I just wonder how long before it is possible, politically.

[tyeman200]

Just saw on the news tonight, that Western students started a campaign on twitter called, #fundLTC. They want to aim it at the mayoral candidates, so that they can focus more on the LTC and fixing the slow and packed transit system.

MetroNews: http://metronews.ca/news/london/1182...cians-fundltc/

CTV: http://london.ctvnews.ca/students-mo...nont-1.2055274

[Pimpmasterdac]

Good that students are calling the LTC out on the retardation of the transit system. When I went to UWO 4+ years ago, you would see under-used routes like 33 Proudfoot with the extended articulated buses picking up maybe 5 people, meanwhile 2 Dundas, 6 Richmond or 13 Wellington were the standard (or sometimes even the old orange buses) being packed to the tits or having to leave people constantly. Hopefully there's better rationalization of the routes! As well buses running past midnight would be good, 2 would be good but you know the crabby cabbies would bitch about lost fares..

Though ultimately I doubt it will change much. LTC and UWO, as well as Fanshawe given LTC a good chunk of money with year passes built in to tuition. Unless they want to start their own competing transit service, or opt out with nothing, be stuck with LTC for the foreseeable future

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Though ultimately I doubt it will change much. LTC and UWO, as well as Fanshawe given LTC a good chunk of money with year passes built in to tuition. Unless they want to start their own competing transit service, or opt out with nothing, be stuck with LTC for the foreseeable future

Doesn't Kings University have their own bus service though? I've seen some of the old GM/MCI Classic buses that used to be part of the LTC being used for that purpose.

But yeah, I think the 33 Proudfoot does have more riders on it now, I still see that route today with the articulated buses. Hopefully they'll buy more of those buses, or at least redo some of the busier routes so that they can use them. I know the 4 Oxford is usually always packed, but they don't use the articulated buses on it because they go through the neighbourhoods (I think I've seen 1 on that route before).

[MolsonExport]

There is some private company, Donnelly transport, that ferries students between UWO and the affiliates.

[TheGenuineArticle]

I remember being on maybe 1-2 of the extended buses riding the 4 when I lived down on ridout in Wortley Village for a bout a year or so. I think they could maybe manage but I don't remember the parking situation when on ridout nor (Jalna I think) the street it continued on after comissioners.

I really wish that Western and Fanshawe would pool their money in with the LTC for a reasonable night service. I kind of felt a class difference being at Fanshawe and seeing all these buses drive Western students home while seeing many of my neighbours drinking and driving to get home (not saying that it probably doesn't happen just as much at Western).

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by TheGenuineArticle

I really wish that Western and Fanshawe would pool their money in with the LTC for a reasonable night service. I kind of felt a class difference being at Fanshawe and seeing all these buses drive Western students home while seeing many of my neighbours drinking and driving to get home (not saying that it probably doesn't happen just as much at Western).

In time, hopefully. Or, could happen pretty soon, depending on what happens in tomorrows election. We could get a council that will actually get some beneficial stuff done for this city.

[ssiguy]

Does London actually have a firm BRT proposal or is it just some fantasy that politicians talk about but little actual planning has been done? Is London's plan actually at the stage of going to Queen's Park and Ottawa telling them this is our plan, timetable, and this is what we want you to contribute?

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Does London actually have a firm BRT proposal or is it just some fantasy that politicians talk about but little actual planning has been done? Is London's plan actually at the stage of going to Queen's Park and Ottawa telling them this is our plan, timetable, and this is what we want you to contribute?

London has a general plan, but nothing that is firm that they can go to senior levels with yet. Council has approved the start of 2 EAs for the BRT; one of the north-south route primarily along Richmond-Wellington corridor, the second east-west route primarily along Dundas-Oxford corridor. Both these routes would meet in the downtown, the Queens-Richmond-York-Wellington being a "downtown loop", with BRT traffic flowing counter-clockwise.

Their plan is EAs to be completed in 2 years, then for the north-south route to start construction in 4-5 years, with east-west a few years thereafter.

London needs to get on this ASAP, since there are road widenings starting next year on Wellington, through to 2018 that would be significant part of the plan. As well Richmond north branch of the Thames to Fanshawe Park Rd. is set for widenings by the end of the decade.

I believe ballpark figure was ~$400 million for both routes. The property required, which will be well over a hundred along Wellington & Oxford, new bridge & rail structures structures using a good portion of it.

It seems like a great plan if implemented, and hopefully is! IMO the property owners that would be affected don't know the extent of the plan yet, and but will become NIMBYs, pitchforks and all when it does. Hopefully we get a council that can see past the noise and implement it. Otherwise Express bus service will be LTCs most rapid form of transit.

[ssiguy]

Well I went to the new mayor's website and it looks like is determined to get BRT construction started with 4 years and start with several BRT-lite lines, good for him.

The one thing I did see, however, is that he plans on taking the buses off Dundas............that would be a monumental mistake. Take off the buses and you take off pedestrians and I would love to know where the hell he plans on putting all those buses.

Vancouver created a far superior system..........the Granville Street Mall. It has become very popular and busy and good for the buses as well. It is a 4 block section of Granville downtown that was reduced to bus-only lanes, they got rid of the parking and the sidewalks became twice as wide, better bus shelters, and street beautification. It has resulted in a dynamic street with bars and many cafes and patios. Thing is even the taxis like it because they are also allowed to use the road. Delivery trucks are allowed to use it VERY early morning and still allows access by emergency vehicles.

It has all the benefits of a pedestrian mall but instead of draining the pedestrians as buses further away does, it consolidates the routes and maintains a very busy pedestrian access point to a vibrant streetscape.

Believe it or not, Dundas doesn't need fewer buses but rather more of them. they could divert some of the Richmond and other buses down Dundas. It would automatically bring thousands downtown to Dundas and by widened sidewalks, they would actually shop and dine on Dundas as well.

[MolsonExport]

Granville Street Mall must have improved. It was a disaster back in the nineties when I lived in Vancouver. No man's land, full of decrepitude (street people and porn shops).

I hate walking with my family at the corner of Dundas & Richmond. Far too many skuzzy-looking people (the type that would hang out on the patio at Tim Worst's Friday Light Fights Bar) blowing their cigarette smoke and sporting blue-ink tattoos, swearing obscenities at each other in hoarse 3-pack-a-day voices. Never mind the presence of other people. Utterly classless.

[haljackey]

Making Dundas a bus-only road, naked street, or closed to all vehicles are all good ideas to consider.

In a utopian vision, I'd love to see the streetcar tracks restored / have a LRT line run down it.

With the success of the 90 express bus, more people may be warming up to BRT ideas. Still doesn't compete with Waterloo Region.. Their ION LRT project is actually U/C now.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by haljackey

With the success of the 90 express bus, more people may be warming up to BRT ideas. Still doesn't compete with Waterloo Region.. Their ION LRT project is actually U/C now.

Not to mention that there are already 3 express bus routes crossing the region with substantial bus shelters/seats and electronic signs at most stops! Seriously, Waterloo Region is way ahead of London. I'm reminded of this whenever I'm back in town, but at least there's the 90 express bus now and hopefully, with Brown as mayor, a BRT system soon enough.

Also makes me wonder, are LTC bus passes included for Western and Fanshawe students? Because GRT passes are definitely included for Waterloo and Laurier students, which I really appreciate. All you have to do is show your student card to get on. The express bus routes also pass near campus, so it allows students like me to live further away from campus, and not all necessarily in the student ghetto.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Also makes me wonder, are LTC bus passes included for Western and Fanshawe students? Because GRT passes are definitely included for Waterloo and Laurier students, which I really appreciate. All you have to do is show your student card to get on. The express bus routes also pass near campus, so it allows students like me to live further away from campus, and not all necessarily in the student ghetto.

Yes they do. But you need your student ID, and you also have to get a bus pass, with your student number on it, and the expiry date. I know LTC has also introduced the 91 Express, which runs down Oxford. The only difference is the 91 Express runs at peak times, and is only running for the Fanshawe school year (September 1, 2014-April 25, 2015). Hopefully in time, the 91 Express would end up like the 90 Express.