Economy Thread

[haljackey]

Did you know that almost all Dr. Oetker stuff comes all the way from Germany? Take a look at a Restorante pizza box.

Making them in the L-dot makes sense from a geographical standpoint.

[Highinthesky]

I didn't know that until the news broke about the potential of them opening a plant in London. Keep buy their stuff cause it was the success of the North American product line which created this opporunity.

[go_leafs_go02]

Good for the economy, but I'm a little sad that they're building from scratch. There's lots of available industrial buildings that could be retrofitted. Imagine the old McCormick building being revitalized and used for a purpose such as this..

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Good for the economy, but I'm a little sad that they're building from scratch. There's lots of available industrial buildings that could be retrofitted. Imagine the old McCormick building being revitalized and used for a purpose such as this..

I agree. I would speculate that the choice of the site might be because Joe Fontana wants to see industrial development close to the 401. One plant locating there might spur others.

Still, I'd like to see some industrial jobs stay close to the central part of the city.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

It's official, we're getting the Dr. Oetker pizza plant.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../18470646.html

Just like Mama used to make.

Your mother must have had a very large kitchen

But seriously, it's nice to see some good news at last. I wonder what Dr. Oetker saw in London? Is there any way the city could play on some unkown competitive advantage?

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Still, I'd like to see some industrial jobs stay close to the central part of the city.

From what I've seen first-hand, modern industry does not usually like to locate close to city centres where land is at a premium. They like lots of land and they like it cheap since it makes operations way easier. Regardless, the city centre SHOULD be too valuable for industrial operations. Hopefully we'll get more commercial activity in the coming decade or, even better, we may see small firms attached to the university opting to occupy downtown office space.

[MolsonExport]

Dr. Oetker mixed our city up with it's namesake in England. Snorting too much cake batter, that Doc Oet.

[Wharn]

Some more good news on the economy front: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../18502386.html

As long as the US Imperial War machine keeps turning, General Dynamic's got a customer. But on the topic of large manufacturers... has anyone heard anything about Electro-Motive's plans?

[manny_santos]

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../18514526.html

Funny how quick people are to blame Joe Fontana.

[haljackey]

Again this is 'the London area'.

What are the figures for London itself? Can't find them anywhere.

[go_leafs_go02]

Too bad - although as mentioned, I'd be curious to see London/Middlesex unemployment compared to St. Thomas/Elgin unemployment rate.

Either way, quite sad, looking back 5 years ago how quick things were growing and how successful London was coming as a major player in Ontario. Seems like a that's changed and London is regrettably falling behind other cities for innovation in any ways. Transit remains bus only, neighbourhood development still sticks around with generally the old fashioned cul-de-sac and big fronting garage designs.

It is tough though, as Kitchener/Waterloo are picking up steam much more than London. While some of that may be innovation and part of the local government wanting to look after initiatives like rapid transit. I still would attribute the pull from the GTA being the major push for that. London is just too far away, and now it's getting thrown together with cities to the west like Sarnia, Chatham, and Windsor. Places I've never really had a good opinion of compared to London.

Either way, London is home to me, always will be (even though I've spent over 2 of the last 3 years in British Columbia) I enjoy visiting, and will be moving back to southern ontario in the next 6 weeks for more schooling. Let's hope things rebound sooner rather than later.'

this comment from Robert Dore hits the nail on the head for me (in the free press article)

To be fair, we cannot blame Joe Fontana for the current situation the city of London is in. We can blame the previous councils. London has for a long time - rested on it's past. The general attitude of the city was that we didn't need to do anything and we could attract jobs and talent to the city. Meanwhile other cities have really innovated and leapfrogged our city. A good example of our city sitting on its hands is our poor transportation network. While other cities are currently getting multiple millions and even billions of dollars of government funding for mega transport projects (Windsor, KW, Ottawa, Toronto), we are sitting on our bums. Joe, I don't blame you for the current situation, but you need to now take bold steps.

[north 42]

London has always been part of southwestern Ontario, with Windsor, Chatham, and Sarnia. Too bad you can't accept this. Windsor is really diversifying and changing for the better, hence our unemployment rate now down to 8%. You should get to know the southwest better, since you are part of it.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by north 42

London has always been part of southwestern Ontario, with Windsor, Chatham, and Sarnia. Too bad you can't accept this. Windsor is really diversifying and changing for the better, hence our unemployment rate now down to 8%. You should get to know the southwest better, since you are part of it.

I wasn't talking geographically, I was talking economically. London's economy was/is quite a bit diverse from cities further to the west and southwest, and in the past shared a lot more in common with Kitchener/Waterloo than any of the three cities mentioned below. I grew up in Chatham from 1993 to 2000, and London is far different than Chatham in many many ways.

Also, not to dampen your spirits, Windsor's 8% unemployment rate isn't due as much to new jobs as this:

Windsor, which had the highest jobless rate in the country for many months is now down to 8%. It was the first time in 10 years that London's unemployment has been higher than Windsor.

Porter said part of the drop in Windsor's job rate is due to an exodus of workers from the city.

I haven't seen that exodus from London just yet. Population is growing, although it is much slower than before.

[haljackey]

It seems like London always gets the short end of the stick from the provincial and federal governments.

A great example was the stimulus funding. Windsor, Kitchener and other cities smaller than London got a crapload more cash than London did, and now they have projects like the Windsor-Essex Parkway (Windsor) and LRT (Kitchener).

It seems we have to fend for ourselves.


I hate to say it, but I'm thinking of moving elsewhere once I graduate. Probably Ottawa if the opportunity rises.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

this comment from Robert Dore hits the nail on the head for me (in the free press article)

GreatTallNorth2=Robert Dore

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by haljackey

It seems like London always gets the short end of the stick from the provincial and federal governments.[/I]

We are not getting the short end of the stick. Other cities have vision (K/W, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Windsor), do studies, make proposals and lobby the government. Every single project underway in Ontario is because the municipality has come up with the plan. We sit on our hands and then whine about the fact we are not getting funding. Talk to any MPP or MP about London. They will tell you that London doesn't come to the table with a plan. London could build LRT or do the ring road tomorrow if we really wanted it, but we don't. We dither. Londoners lose.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

We are not getting the short end of the stick. Other cities have vision (K/W, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Windsor), do studies, make proposals and lobby the government. Every single project underway in Ontario is because the municipality has come up with the plan. We sit on our hands and then whine about the fact we are not getting funding. Talk to any MPP or MP about London. They will tell you that London doesn't come to the table with a plan. London could build LRT or do the ring road tomorrow if we really wanted it, but we don't. We dither. Londoners lose.

Yep, and really, while this may have been going on for decades, it only is really starting to show itself in the last 5 years.

KW is getting LRT, Hamilton is getting LRT/Rapid Transit. London's just kinda thinking about BRT - which I can't see that working either way.

It works in the past where the status quo often was the best option. London is/was a great place to grow up in between 2000 and 2005. Downtown was becoming revitalized, we had the new library, and the new JLC in 2002, and the biggest moment arguably for the City was hosting and winning the Memorial Cup in 2005 with that fantastic Knights team who set national records all over the place. Since then, not too much has changed, and certainly overall, the changes going on in other municipalities and regions has caused them to jump over London.

[north 42]

Windsor actually is now enjoying an influx of people into the city, due to the booming tool and die shops and the Windsor-Essex parkway project now underway. Our mayor has worked harder than any mayor in Ontario to attract new business and investment into our city after it was gutted by the recession. We now also have a growing high tech sector here that is flourishing.
Not to dis London, but Windsor is in a much better situation than London now. Hopefully London will stop it's decline and find a way to also diversify and change old attitudes. A strong southwest is good for everyone.

[Blitz]

The drop in workers only accounts for part of the drop in the rate. The unemployment rate here was 15% just two years ago!! There have been many new infrastructure projects around town since then and hundreds of new jobs related to green energy, new plants opening, etc.

The Ontario tories were pleading with Windsor's mayor to run for them in the provincial election this Fall because they see his potential has a possible future premier. He has been leading the charge to turn the city around.

I wasn't talking geographically, I was talking economically. London's economy was/is quite a bit diverse from cities further to the west and southwest, and in the past shared a lot more in common with Kitchener/Waterloo than any of the three cities mentioned below. I grew up in Chatham from 1993 to 2000, and London is far different than Chatham in many many ways.

Economically I agree, but I've always kind of lumped Kitchener/Waterloo as a separate region that's more aligned with the GTA. London-Windsor seem more aligned to me but maybe that's because we both share A-Channel, haha. But, Windsorites are always being sent to London for health care too.

[Symz]

Originally Posted by haljackey

It seems like London always gets the short end of the stick from the provincial and federal governments.

A great example was the stimulus funding. Windsor, Kitchener and other cities smaller than London got a crapload more cash than London did, and now they have projects like the Windsor-Essex Parkway (Windsor) and LRT (Kitchener).

It seems we have to fend for ourselves.


I hate to say it, but I'm thinking of moving elsewhere once I graduate. Probably Ottawa if the opportunity rises.

In Windsor many would say that Ontario stops at London and as a side note I know that up in Sudbury they say the province stops at Barrie.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Symz

In Windsor many would say that Ontario stops at London and as a side note I know that up in Sudbury they say the province stops at Barrie.

In London many would say that Ontario stops at K-W or the edge of the Greater-Golden Horseshoe.

Greater Toronto could become it's own province. Big cities operate separately from the provinces in other countries (like China) and it seems to work well.

If we wanted to, Ottawa-Gateneau could become a federal district as well.