CHICAGO | General Developments

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by lawfin

ΔΔ what is a shame is that the blue does not continue under Milw and instead goes over to the expressway, if the damn blue line continued out Milw milw would probably develop of have developed into one of the great stretches of nearly interminable urban mixed use on the continent.....including NYC.

That's true and something I've long lamented. The freeway section of the Blue beyond Belmont is almost useless for building any kind of critical mass. And to think that at one point in time Six Corners was the largest conglomeration of retail outside of downtown only to devolve into the pathetic husk it is today. A big fat subway stop at Milwaukee/Irving/Cicero would have livened that area up a bit. Same goes for the wonderful little retail strip at Milwaukee and Montrose. Even Jeff Park would have been better with the stop being on Milwaukee instead of under the Metra.

Additionally it would have reduced the amount of salt spray Blue Line trains are subjected to and increased their life spans while decreasing maintenance costs.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Well his claim about Bronzeville is true, I know for a fact that there are very vocal elements within the community that are resisting gentrification for exactly the reasons he listed.

Well, if you know for a fact that redevelopment hasn't occurred because black people don't want white people around, I'm sure you won't have any problem providing evidence to bolster your claim.

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

What I said wasn't at all based on conventional wisdom, but rather a serious of college courses and books on US race issues and urban sociology. It's widely accepted by sociologists that a major contributing factor to longevity of the social issues around race is that African Americans were so marginalized that eventually they accepted this marginalization and formed their own cultural group in resistance to the marginalization.

Again, you invoke your authority (a "serious" of college courses) as a way of silencing criticism. Look, if you make claims like "it's widely accepted by sociologists [that x is the cause of y]," you better bring the goods (verifiable sources) to back it up. More often than not, on any issue—and especially on an issue as complex as inner city racial dynamics—there are going to be a bunch of competing theories. Vague appeals to your supposed credibility do not change this.

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

You can attack me personally all you want, but that doesn't make you any less wrong.

You've really got this victim routine down.

Originally Posted by untitledreality

I wasn't aware that racism had a 'reverse' to it. Racism is racism and unfortunately it does work in the way that aic4ever mentions in many urban areas. Im not buying his particular example, but I have seen/experienced it first hand.

Hope you noticed the quotation marks. I don't believe in it, either. Some people do, though. Here's an introduction to the term.

Originally Posted by aic4ever

There are a handful of them that don't want white people around. I don't know why that would be hard to believe if you understand the history of this country and this city, but if you don't want to believe me, you don't have to. You also don't live in Bronzeville, and unless and until you do, you probably don't have a much better option than to take my word for it about what I've observed while living here.

It's an impediment to development because they are part of a very vocal minority that almost brings every sign of progress to a halt. The demolition of the Pickford Theater was nearly stopped by one man who complained loudly enough, even though there was nothing left of the building but a rusting shell that DeLasalle would have let fall in on itself before they fixed it up. His arguments that I sat and listened to were based entirely upon reviving the Black Metropolis with federal funds.

I'm not going to claim that some kind of "reverse racism" (whatever that means...racism is racism) is roadblocking growth in Bronzeville. Racial dynamics will be overcome by anyone persistent enough to overcome them by proving to the community that growth is in its best interests. But at the same time, ignoring it, or for some reason insisting it doesn't exist, doesn't help anything either.

Here's what you said:

Originally Posted by aic4ever

I would note, as well, that there are a good portion of the more well-to-do black people in the community, and I speak of Bronzeville now in particular, that want to see the community grow back into what it once was, but don't want white people moving in. That's not hearsay or speculation, that's personal experience talking. There are some folks that are more adamant about that than others, but it does seem to be something of a general sentiment, particularly in the GAP.

As much as nobody wants that to be the case, it is, and it's another impediment to further development. It's not one that I think will stop Bronzeville from developing, as there's getting to be WAY too much residential around and nowhere near enough food or retail to support it for that stuff to NOT be built by somebody, but it is a sentiment that's going to make for a tougher growth of the community than it ought to be.

It sounds like you're dialing it back. "A good portion" is much more than "a handful." And impediment = roadblock. What's more, your example of the Pickford Theater says nothing about racism, but it's telling that you think it does.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by lawfin

ΔΔ what is a shame is that the blue does not continue under Milw and instead goes over to the expressway, if the damn blue line continued out Milw milw would probably develop of have developed into one of the great stretches of nearly interminable urban mixed use on the continent.....including NYC.

so true, if in some miracle universe, the blue line had been subwayed under milwaukee up to jeff park and then taken into the kennedy median, those further north stretches of milwaukee would instantly have become A LOT more desirable and vibrant.

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Hope you noticed the quotation marks. I don't believe in it, either. Some people do, though. Here's an introduction to the term.

Thanks for some laughs at the end of the day.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Well, if you know for a fact that redevelopment hasn't occurred because black people don't want white people around, I'm sure you won't have any problem providing evidence to bolster your claim.



Again, you invoke your authority (a "serious" of college courses) as a way of silencing criticism. Look, if you make claims like "it's widely accepted by sociologists [that x is the cause of y]," you better bring the goods (verifiable sources) to back it up. More often than not, on any issue—and especially on an issue as complex as inner city racial dynamics—there are going to be a bunch of competing theories. Vague appeals to your supposed credibility do not change this.

I never said they were successful, only that there is a vocal element of the community that is unquestionably against development. You can't exactly provide evidence of things people have said off record...

No, I didn't invoke anything, you essentially asked me to substantiate these claims and where I got that info from so I did. I can dig up the name of my old textbook if you'd like and you can read it for yourself.

Again, you can keep up the character assassination all you want and it doesn't make your initial argument or point any less stupid. You aren't fooling anyone. No one is going to back you up on this issue, how you can be so shocked and in denial of these racial/social issues is beyond me.

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

It sounds like you're dialing it back. "A good portion" is much more than "a handful." And impediment = roadblock. What's more, your example of the Pickford Theater says nothing about racism, but it's telling that you think it does.

Sounds to me like you've got literacy issues considering he didn't once use the term racism until you flipped shit and brought it up. It's not necessarily racist to want to recreate the black metropolis even if it requires seemingly racist opposition to white immigration to achieve that goal.

[aic4ever]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

It sounds like you're dialing it back. "A good portion" is much more than "a handful." And impediment = roadblock. What's more, your example of the Pickford Theater says nothing about racism, but it's telling that you think it does.

Well my apologies for getting caught not re-reading my own post and being vigilant enough to protect myself against the political-style opposition research you're throwing down here.

Generally speaking, a "good portion of the well-to-do" would usually total out to "a handful" of the general population. But have it your way. I'm hoisted by my own petard.

Good lord, what kind of time you must have on your hands to scramble through such minutiae.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ He's trying to play "semantic gotcha" like some other people on this forum do and simply isn't as good at it.

[lawfin]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

so true, if in some miracle universe, the blue line had been subwayed under milwaukee up to jeff park and then taken into the kennedy median, those further north stretches of milwaukee would instantly have become A LOT more desirable and vibrant.

In one of my fantasy universe versions of the L the line would continue under Milw to Jeff park or even park ridge, the line in the median would serve the hare express from downtown and the capacity south of Belmont would need to be expanded to serve the express which would travel how the blue line currently does and the local would continue under milw out to at least Jeff park or maybe park ridge. And yes such a line would do wonders for 6 corners out at milw / cicero

[george]

4-29

Columbia facade rehab

[ChiPhi]

^^^
Is this going to have that ghost facade thing or were the plans changed since then?

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

Hey, guys. On the topic of neighborhoods, I have a question: how much caution is advised for daytime exploration in North Lawndale and West Garfield Park? I love all of the greystones over there (and once read that North Lawndale has the city's largest concentration), and hope to photograph some of them, provided it isn't too dangerous.

I am really curious about the whole Douglas Park area, and think it has alot of potential. Additionally, how gentrified is East Humboldt Park nowadays? Occasionally, I read about a new bar/resto opening up, and how its proximity to Wicker Park/Bucktown mean lots of new, younger types are moving in and fixing things up.

If you're white and you don't dress rich, you may get some stares but you should be fine. if you're black or latino, people may check you out a little closer to see if you're affiliated and god help you if they come to the conclusion that you're affiliated and with the wrong group.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

so true, if in some miracle universe, the blue line had been subwayed under milwaukee up to jeff park and then taken into the kennedy median, those further north stretches of milwaukee would instantly have become A LOT more desirable and vibrant.

How did we screw that up. I guess suburban flight in the RJ Daley era meant all urban subway stations were presumed to become crime infested? Or was it just cheaper costs in going in the highway median?

Silver lining here is that the el looks kind of cool running along the expressway.

[BWChicago]

Well yeah, keep in mind that the expressway opened in 1960 and the Jefferson Park extension didn't open until 1970, and O'Hare not until 1984, so there was barely funding for that much. There were a few prior proposals to extend it along Milwaukee to Irving Park or Lawrence but obviously those got nowhere.

[Mr Downtown]

Superhighway medians were the only way Chicago was going to get new rapid transit ROWs. Even then, FHWA made the city pay for the extra land and overpass spans.

[Kippis]

Sorry about the size, Photobucket is being a pain in the ass today. Taken just now:

[intrepidDesign]

There is a LOT of blank wall with this one. I'm going to reserve judgement until its completed, but I'm starting to have my doubts.

[ardecila]

Well at least they're using white glazed brick. That's one of the best ways to dress up a blank wall, since the brick adds a fine texture. Mounting it flush with the exposed concrete is pretty sensual, and sorta reminds me of the early modernist stuff at Michael Reese or Oakbrook/Old Orchard. The fact that the pour lines in the concrete coincide with the control joints in the brick make me hopeful that the concrete will remain raw.

Still, the huge wall is pretty disappointing, but the overall design seems simple and understated. It's probably an indictment of my own standards after a decade of terrible retail podium design, but I actually like it. It's fresh.

[Rizzo]

Halsted Goose Island


New grating and SlipNot panels on sidewalks.

[denizen467]

^ I can also confirm that Halsted is finally passable again, connecting Lincoln Park and River West (is that what it's called?) across Goose Island for the first time in about a year and half. They still have a few lanes to complete but at least the area congestion will go back to normal and the neighborhoods are sewed back together.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by denizen467

^ I can also confirm that Halsted is finally passable again, connecting Lincoln Park and River West (is that what it's called?) across Goose Island for the first time in about a year and half. They still have a few lanes to complete but at least the area congestion will go back to normal and the neighborhoods are sewed back together.

But that elevated intersection is in terrible shape. CDOT must have something planned. No way that road surface can make it another year. Parts of it are just gravel near the curb.

Then there's viaduct over by K-Station. They've been working on expansion joints. I can't recall if the portion adjoining Pickens Kane is decked, but the sidewalk has crumbled and exposing rebar. In the center section, the new sidewalks poured not long ago are already cracked despite ample control joints. They look almost characteristic of stresses from uplift but I'm no pavement expert.