ATLANTA: Demolition for Civic Center?

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

As I've posted previously, the only real humane solution is assimilation. The city could sponsor a group home in every neighborhood, and those 6,000 could be housed and cared for by themselves, and would have many people and churches in proximity who would be willing to assist them with jobs and other positive reinforcement. The churches could be subsidized to feed them, or food trucks could deliver from a central location. Best of all is, the churches and private donations would cover most if not all the cost of this sort of operation. The city would have to pass an ordinance mandating that each neighborhood is required to accept a group home.

I think you are totally right, Fiorenza, although the entire metro area should be required to participate instead of just leaving it to the city of Atlanta (as usual). The city proper only constitutes 9% of Atlanta's population and 1.5% of its land.

If you bring the strength of the entire Atlanta area to bear the homeless problem would be solved in the blink of an eye. If every church took in even one homeless person that would be the end of it right there.

[Fiorenza]

At present Gwinnett has no homeless problem. They passed an ordinance prohibiting loitering, which is the stick end of the solution.

But, let's be real about government's inability to deal with this. The problem is only visible in a small area, and it's not going to be politically feasible to assimilate the homeless into neighborhoods on a forced basis. I mean, what if the government puts a shelter down the street from you and the residents thereof rape your daughter? First case of that, and the politicians will be finger-pointing. The best approach would be to set up a voluntary model, and let it become socially appropriate to accept and promote neighborhood shelters without the stigma. People will buy in if given a well-publicized prototype and allowed to accept the idea on a voluntary basis. To contradict what I just wrote in a previous post, government ordinances and mandates won't really move the problem. We need to provide a way for people to help people.

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

At present Gwinnett has no homeless problem.

Oh, I don't know about that, Fiorenza.

Lawrenceville mother and son found dead in car; police believe homeless pair died from carbon


Or this: "There are no shelters for homeless families in Gwinnett, even though the Gwinnett County School System accommodated over 3,000 homeless students during the 2005-2006 school year. In 2006 there were 20,485 evictions and 6,130 foreclosures in Gwinnett County. At the average family size of 2.5 that equals approximately 66,537 family members that lost housing in 2006."

Or this: City seeks help from suburbs to shoulder homeless

Or this: Speech by By Ellen Gerstein, Director, Gwinnett Health and Human Services

And don't forget the proliferation of "extended stay" motels. And what happens as the poor are increasingly pushed out of the central cities into the suburban counties? We're already past the day when the suburbs can claim the homeless problem only exists somewhere else, and as time goes on that's going to be even more the case.

I mean, what if the government puts a shelter down the street from you and the residents thereof rape your daughter? First case of that, and the politicians will be finger-pointing.

Has that ever been an issue? I honestly haven't heard of it. Most rapes are committed by someone the victim already knows, yet they don't isolate those guys in advance.

The best approach would be to set up a voluntary model, and let it become socially appropriate to accept and promote neighborhood shelters without the stigma. People will buy in if given a well-publicized prototype and allowed to accept the idea on a voluntary basis. To contradict what I just wrote in a previous post, government ordinances and mandates won't really move the problem. We need to provide a way for people to help people.

Yeah. We've got a couple of shelters in my neighborhood and they've been extremely effective. I think the feeling is to keep them low profile. Most people want to help, though of course they also want safety and order in their own neighborhood. That takes a strong, committed community and good policing.

I think when we talk about homelessness we have to be specific and watch out for the stereotypes. Taking care of homeless people is one thing, but nobody wants a bunch of bums aggressively panhandling them, breaking into cars or stealing stuff off their front porches. It's that latter group that people find offensive, and they are not representative of homeless folks in general.

[Behind_Phips]

Don't look to the churches to support the homeless because they cannot afford it.

I went home a couple of weekends ago to see my folks. My mother is a born again and she made me go to church with her. I asked her where her preacher lived and she told me the neighborhood. I went online and saw that his house cost $650,000. So much for taking a vow of poverty. You could feed a lot of homeless people for $650,000.

[Behind_Phips]

I'm not religious, but if you claim to be then maybe you should live by the WORD you speak to others.

Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied....But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full. Woe to you who are well-fed now, for you shall be hungry....Give to everyone who asks of you...Treat others the same way you want them to treat you...lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great... (Luke 6:20-21, 24-26, 30-31, 35).

[Behind_Phips]

For the record...

I am not against religion. I believe in and support personal choice. What I have a problem with is the messengers. I suspect many who claim to be religious or Christians share Briantech's beliefs and I find that utterly shocking and hypocritical.

[Behind_Phips]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

These are human beings, and I don't blame them for their circumstances, but the organization giving them food and support should be relocated to a less commercially viable area. Human nature is what it is. We all want to be in contact with people like ourselves, the success stories, not those who have lost life's lottery. This is a prime piece of downtown, but will never achieve full potential until that shelter is relocated. Just the facts.

I see your point, but I disagree. In the show Six Feet Under, somebody said, "Why do people have to die?" and the caretaker said, "So people will value living" - something to that affect. So I ask you, "How will YOU ever know success if you don't live among the unsuccessful?" These shelters should not be moved. They should be cleaned up and have strict panhandling laws enforced.

[Andrea]

B_P, if Jesus was on this board he'd say:

"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'

"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

"Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'

"Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'

"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Matthew 25:31-46.

Now that's some real sweet teaching, straight from the man himself. Right to the point.

[Fiorenza]

But there are certain social problems that are associated with homelessness.

But Andrea, thanks for the info concerning Gwinnett homeless people. I guess I had assumed that since I never see them here, they must not exist.

[Behind_Phips]

Andrea,

I wonder if Jesus would be pissed if his flock put the needy on a farm in Cobb County albeit they sheltered and fed them?

[Behind_Phips]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

But there are certain social problems that are associated with homelessness.

But Andrea, thanks for the info concerning Gwinnett homeless people. I guess I had assumed that since I never see them here, they must not exist.

And there is not social problems with the "Successful" people? Please explain. I live in "Successful neighborhood" and a neighbor two doors down has had the police at his house twice for beating his wife.

[Andrea]

Behind_Phips, I don't know and I don't want to find out. Maybe they wouldn't have to be put on a farm, but could simply be taken into shelters and homes until they get back on their feet?

Fiorenza, I know what you mean. For the most part the homeless aren't on my immediate radar screen either. But they are definitely out there, in almost every community.

[Behind_Phips]

Originally Posted by Andrea

Behind_Phips, I don't know and I don't want to find out. Maybe they wouldn't have to be put on a farm, but could simply be taken into shelters and homes until they get back on their feet?

Fiorenza, I know what you mean. For the most part the homeless aren't on my immediate radar screen either. But they are definitely out there, in almost every community.

Andrea and Fiorenza, I know you are the good guys, so no worries. It's just there are a lot of Briantech(s) out there and burns me to no end.

[Andrea]

[darryl27]

So, does anyone know if there are updates on the demolition of the civic center?

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

At present Gwinnett has no homeless problem. They passed an ordinance prohibiting loitering, which is the stick end of the solution.

When I was doing the master redevelopment plan for the Jimmy Carter/Beaver Ruin/Indian Trail area a few years ago we worked closely with a group working to address homelessness and affordable housing in the county called the Impact Group:

http://www.theimpactgroup.org/

They are doing a great job at providing transitional housing for homeless families and revitalizing many of Gwinnett's blighted areas. I was truly unaware that so much of the county had declined so rapidly until I started that project.

Unfortunately, the thing that I find disturbing is that some outlying counties are selective about the services they provide. Those homeless who don't fit the model (single-men, those with mental issues) are often brought into Atlanta by said suburban providers and left for us here to deal with. It's very frustrating.

[Fiorenza]

We can all agree that dumping the outcasts on the urban streets of Atlanta or the streets of anywhere else is not the solution.

[sabino86]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

We can all agree that dumping the outcasts on the urban streets of Atlanta or the streets of anywhere else is not the solution.

Agreed

[mahanakorn]

The convention space is superfluous, thanks to the much larger GWCC. Is the performance space worth saving?

This idea improves the way the center relates to the street, and the lake in the park provides a focal point for the area (and a reflecting pool for downtown towers). Downside: underground parking is expensive.

[CB SONO]

Ok... I live right next door to the civic center, the homeless situation is not entirely different from my experience with living in DC. I look out my back window and see all kinds of things happening in Renaissance Park.

The fact remains, IMHO, that unless "Peachtree and Pine" is under control, there will be no clear linkage between downtown and Midtown. For example, I recently stopped taking MARTA to work because of the gauntlet that I had to walk through every morning to get to the either the North Ave station or Civic Center station. I was asked daily for money and about the contents of my laptop bag. Some downtown hotels recommend that visitors to our area avoid walking down Peachtree. I'm not saying Peachtree and Pine has to move out, but something is not working there.

The Civic Center site is ripe for re-development as is the entire block bordered by Pine, Piedmont, Renaissance, and Courtland.