Is your city a strong neighbourhood or strong downtown city?

[begratto]

Originally Posted by matthew6

This omits one of my top five Montreal hoods!

Which one? Verdun?

[matthew6]

Originally Posted by begratto

Which one? Verdun?

Yes Verdun is one of them. I missed that one. But I was thinking of Villeray. Should be everything south of the met not Jean Talon!

[Docere]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Kensington may be the greatest neighbourhood in Toronto, if not Canada.

In some ways, Kensington is Toronto's closest equivalent to the Lower East Side/East Village (which are "downtown" because they're below 14th St.)

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Hmm, never thought of that before, but you're right, Montreal would be spectacular if it was a smaller island from Olympic Stadium to Décarie east to west, and from the river to Jean-Talon south to north.

Think of how many cool bridges Montreal would have had by now. Of coarse it would help if the St Lawrence was a little narrower around the island on it's south side to.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Think of how many cool bridges Montreal would have had by now. Of coarse it would help if the St Lawrence was a little narrower around the island on it's south side to.

Ottawa might be a bit nicer if the Canal had gone where it was suppose to go, but the again this city has a phobia of bridges, so it might be even more messed up surrounding the downtown by water...

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Docere

In some ways, Kensington is Toronto's closest equivalent to the Lower East Side/East Village (which are "downtown" because they're below 14th St.) Camden Market.

Fixed. Kensington's more modest, more ramshackle, and even more eccentric-looking (and the street view footage was obviously taken early in the morning when there was little foot traffic), but it's a valid comparison.

Kensington: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.65399...7i13312!8i6656

Camden: https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.54072...7i13312!8i6656

• Video Link

[Docere]

Or Whitechapel/Brick Lane.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Ottawa might be a bit nicer if the Canal had gone where it was suppose to go, but the again this city has a phobia of bridges, so it might be even more messed up surrounding the downtown by water...

This might seem like a dumb question, but what exactly was the point of building the Rideau Canal? I know, I know, to connect Ottawa with the Great Lakes and provide an alternate water route that didn't follow the US border. But, within Ottawa, there's already the Rideau River, which the Canal ends up meeting with before Nepean and then the "Canal" essentially is just the natural River until you get down to the Lock Stations at Rideau Lake. Having the Canal, which many people died in the process of making, just feels grossly redundant when the Rideau River is just east of it.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by ue

This might seem like a dumb question, but what exactly was the point of building the Rideau Canal? I know, I know, to connect Ottawa with the Great Lakes and provide an alternate water route that didn't follow the US border. But, within Ottawa, there's already the Rideau River, which the Canal ends up meeting with before Nepean and then the "Canal" essentially is just the natural River until you get down to the Lock Stations at Rideau Lake. Having the Canal, which many people died in the process of making, just feels grossly redundant when the Rideau River is just east of it.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Location...a_Ontario.html

The Rideau River ends in a waterfall. The Canal probably could have been shorter, but they'd already bought a bunch of land (I think) before Lebreton swooped in and bought the planned route and demanded a bunch of money so they went the other way.

[ue]

^ Didn't know that. Still, you'd think turning it into a locks station, which already exists throughout the "Canal" would've been cheaper, no?

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by ue

^ Didn't know that. Still, you'd think turning it into a locks station, which already exists throughout the "Canal" would've been cheaper, no?

Possibly, I'm not a canal building expert, but I don't think they really had anywhere to redirect the river while digging through the bedrock, so it would probably be tricky.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Fixed. Kensington's more modest, more ramshackle, and even more eccentric-looking (and the street view footage was obviously taken early in the morning when there was little foot traffic), but it's a valid comparison.

Kensington: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.65399...7i13312!8i6656

Camden: https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.54072...7i13312!8i6656

If Kensington was grafted onto Queen West, it would compare extremely well with Camden (building scale and vibe).

[shappy]

Not to sound overly cheesy but this past Saturday I was running errards around town and hit up Kensington, Roncesvalles, St. Lawrence and Cabbagetown (mostly on streetcar so going through a bunch of other hoods along Queen and King)... reading this thread now, and looking back, the diversity of these areas is really impressive.

And as an aside, Cabbagetown is a freaking stunner.

[Docere]

This would never happen in Toronto:

http://philly.curbed.com/2015/4/22/9...-dont-think-so

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It is definitely not a scientific definition, but for me a real neighborhood is somewhere that has its own true sense of place, and there are areas outside of downtown Victoria that have this (such as Oak Bay and Esquimalt), and are not like the traditional nameless sprawling suburbs. Both of this areas have existed as long as Victoria downtown has.

I agree though, overall Victoria is a downtown city. I was originally more referring to the silly comment that only cities over 1 million in Western Canada and Ontario are interesting.

Just about all of the major urban commercial stuff is concentrated downtown in Victoria. The neighbourhoods like Oak Bay almost have a village-y feel, with a couple blocks of small local shops and services. I am not sure there is a cluster of office towers or a major storefront street outside of downtown. So I'd agree that Victoria is clearly a downtown city.

Aside from the natural setting, another nice thing about Victoria is that it survived the 1960's and 70's relatively unscathed. There are no big dead zones and you can walk anywhere.

[J.OT13]

For Ottawa, we have a few interesting neighborhoods and main streets around town like Westboro, with its boutiques and restaurants, similarly Wellington West. Beechwood in the old east end is also quite nice. We have the Glebe with Lansdowne Park (Civic Centre and TD Place) and Centretown, which has both Bank (the Village) and Elgin Street (bar district). There is also Preston's Little Italy and Somerset's Chinatown.

I feel though that these neighborhoods are mostly frequented by locals and for the most part unknown to tourists so locally, I would call Ottawa a strong neighborhood city, but by reputation, more of a strong downtown city.

The issue is that these neighborhoods are only served by bus routes. If we had a proper subway system like Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver, tourist might discover more of the city. Stage 2 of Confederation Line might help once the bus Transitway is converted to LRT and the Trillium Line is upgraded. This will make Wellington West, Westboro and Little Italy a little more accessible.

[Architype]

Realistically, how many neighborhoods in any city have people on the other side of the country even heard of? If the answer is none, your city is just a strong downtown city. I doubt if many people in Eastern Canada have even heard of West End, Kitsilano, Mount Pleasant, Strathcona, or Commercial Drive, etc.

[J.OT13]

At least Toronto and Montreal's neighborhoods are well know throughout Canada. I mean Cabbagetown, the Distillery District, the Entertainment District, le Plateau, Outremont, old Montreal, the Olympic Village.

Down in the U.S, New York and San Francisco are the ultimate neighborhood cities.

So yes, I believe that renown is definitely part of the equation.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

At least Toronto and Montreal's neighborhoods are well know throughout Canada. I mean Cabbagetown, the Distillery District, the Entertainment District, le Plateau, Outremont, old Montreal, the Olympic Village.

It seems highly improbably to me that you could poll a significant number of random people in, say, Edmonton, and get this sort of list out of many of them. I think you'd normally get an answer like "Old Montreal", mostly because it's an easy to remember name and concept.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

My opinion is that St. Lawrence and Yorkville are downtown (although the quieter, residential parts of Yorkville like Hazelton Ave. may not be). Church and Wellesley and Kensington are definitely neighbourhoods; Kensington may be the greatest neighbourhood in Toronto, if not Canada.

Were this somehow an objective truth I would feel bad for Canada. Kensington Market is quirky, has lots of shops mixed throughout, and it gets busy in the summer but it looks like a cross between a Midwestern neighbourhood and a Latin American slum. I don't think the neighbourhood itself has any parks and it has no scenery. It is, well, kind of ugly. Toronto in general has a lot to recommend it but I would have a hard time calling it a beautiful city.