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  #61  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 4:56 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
If there are 2 and you add 1 isn't that a 50% increase in capacity?
But... but... but... 2 is 33% less than 3.

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Originally Posted by Nutterbug View Post
The world and the economy would not progress if we all stopped for everybody who threatened to kill themself. We would be robbed of our own lives through the time we could have spent in living it in a more meaningful and fulfilling way.

Let's just look at it like this:

Suicide = Darwin at work
There is nothing on this planet more fulfilling, meaningful and personally rewarding, than that of saving the life of one human being.

@jhausner... very well said. The world lacks compassion. I also think some people on this board know not what they say... and perhaps some lack the years or real world experience to appreciate the value of even one human life.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tintinium View Post
There is nothing on this planet more fulfilling, meaningful and personally rewarding, than that of saving the life of one human being.

@jhausner... very well said. The world lacks compassion. I also think some people on this board know not what they say... and perhaps some lack the years or real world experience to appreciate the value of even one human life.
On the other hand, keeping them alive might be prolonging the agony. Take the Sue Rodriguez case, for example.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 7:25 PM
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I think the biggest compaint would be how the police handled the traffic backlog.
All motorists stuck on the highway should have been turned around (yes, by driving on the shoulder and making a U-turn on the highway and driving the wrong way up entrance ramps) and directed to empty the highway.

All approaching traffic on the highway should have been directed off at Hastings Street. Sure, that would also have created a backlog, but people stuck sitting in their cars without access to water or bathrooms on a hot summer day? Dogs get better treatment.

Alternatively, two lanes of traffic at very slow speed on the bridge would have reduced the noise level under the bridge to allow police to speak with the jumper.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 9:05 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Originally Posted by Nutterbug View Post
On the other hand, keeping them alive might be prolonging the agony. Take the Sue Rodriguez case, for example.
Bit of a different situation. Sue Rodriguez was actually trying to die... and WANTED someone to help her (Doctor assisted suicide). Jumpers don't want help dying.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 10:23 PM
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Bit of a different situation. Sue Rodriguez was actually trying to die... and WANTED someone to help her (Doctor assisted suicide). Jumpers don't want help dying.
No, but they still have their reasons, and know their own situations better than any of us can speculate.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 3:02 AM
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i've always been one to say that we are more humane to animals then humans. humans don't lack compassion at all, we're just insensitive. and can you really blame us? if one person wants to actually kill themself, i say let them. personally, its their time to go. whether you're 18 or 80 years old, and you want to do yourself in, its your right to do so.

as for the value of a human life, i'm sure if any of these suicidal people did something as unselfish as signing the organ donor card on thier drivers licence, then we can actually save more than one life if one person dies. mind you if you kill yourself, and you're still healthy, then your organs should be automatically harvested. at least you'll have done something selfless. so then tell me, wheres the value in a human life there?

anyone trying to jump off the second narrows is asking for attention, and honestly, thats exactly what we're giving them. and what, if anything, does that have to do with transportation and infrastructure?

seriously, we should be leading a debate on what kind of 3rd crossing is needed for the Burrard Inlet. some don't think its needed, which it seriously is, and not just to ease the obsolete and over capacitated infrastructure already in place.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 4:05 AM
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Minister reinforces position on bridge closure
Mental health organization says police did the right thing
Last Updated: Friday, July 4, 2008 | 9:21 AM ET Comments104Recommended35
CBC News
B.C. Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon was one of thousands of motorists caught in the gridlock during the shutdown of the Second Narrows bridge on Canada Day.B.C. Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon was one of thousands of motorists caught in the gridlock during the shutdown of the Second Narrows bridge on Canada Day. (CBC)

The B.C. transportation minister says Vancouver police should learn from their counterparts in San Francisco how to handle people disrupting traffic on busy bridges.

Kevin Falcon said it's unacceptable that the Ironworkers Memorial Second Narrows Crossing was completely shut down for six hours on Canada Day while police tried to talk to an apparently distraught woman.

"I was just in San Francisco recently and I can tell you they have lots of problems with the Golden Gate Bridge but they don't shut down the entire bridge to deal with these incidents," Falcon told CBC News Thursday.
Bridge closures backed up traffic on West Georgia Street in downtown Vancouver on Tuesday.Bridge closures backed up traffic on West Georgia Street in downtown Vancouver on Tuesday. (CBC)

The Vancouver Police Department closed the Second Narrows bridge, which spans Burrard Inlet, linking the city and the North Shore, at around 1 p.m. Tuesday. During the bridge closure, the only alternate route, across the Lions Gate Bridge, was disrupted by at least two traffic accidents, causing huge backups on roads approaching both bridges.

Mary Currie, a spokesperson for the Golden Gate Bridge, said San Francisco police usually close the curb lane of the six-lane bridge when there are disruptions on the bridge.

"It's usually a fairly brief closure," Currie told CBC News in a telephone interview Thursday.
A distraught woman on the Ironworkers Memorial Second Narrows Crossing prompted the closing of the bridge for six hours Tuesday.A distraught woman on the Ironworkers Memorial Second Narrows Crossing prompted the closing of the bridge for six hours Tuesday. (Global TV)

"We also have access on the open sidewalk so we have some room to be able to work with persons that may be contemplating suicide without closing the entire roadway down," she said.

Vancouver police said Wednesday that the closure was necessary because a person's life was at stake and noise from the traffic would have made it difficult for negotiators to talk to the soft-spoken woman. Police got her to safety and got her some help.

The head of a B.C. mental-health organization said he is disturbed by the transportation minister's remarks.

Falcon was one of thousands of motorists caught in the gridlock on Canada Day.

"He [Falcon] sounded like a frustrated motorist and not a leader, in my point of view," said Darrell Burnham, executive director of Coast Mental Health Foundation.

Burnham said police did the right thing.

"I'm sure her [the woman on the bridge] family and friends are thankful that police controlled the scene as in any situation. It's unfortunate that a whole bridge was closed down, but [police] made the priority saving a life."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...m-closure.html


as per usual VPD dropping the ball....
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  #68  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 4:53 AM
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an entire bottle of pills and a bottle of vodka?
That much vodka would probably save your life not kill you because you would vomit and throw up the all the pills and a lot of the alcohol.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 5:39 AM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
as for the value of a human life, i'm sure if any of these suicidal people did something as unselfish as signing the organ donor card on thier drivers licence, then we can actually save more than one life if one person dies. mind you if you kill yourself, and you're still healthy, then your organs should be automatically harvested. at least you'll have done something selfless. so then tell me, wheres the value in a human life there?
Harvesting organs without consent, even from suiciders, is still wrong on all levels.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2008, 5:44 AM
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Falcon wants bridge closure review
Police close Ironworkers creating 6 hours of Canada Day traffic chaos

James Weldon
North Shore News

Friday, July 04, 2008

Minister of Transportation Kevin Falcon is calling on police to review their bridge policies after an incident on the Ironworkers Memorial Second Narrows Crossing brought traffic to a grinding halt for six hours on Canada Day.

Vancouver police closed the bridge at about 1 p.m. Tuesday as part of their efforts to help a distraught woman. The closure wreaked havoc with North Shore thoroughfares as traffic was diverted to the much narrower Lions Gate Bridge. Matters were made worse when accidents on that span forced motorists to a standstill more than once during the afternoon. Roadways were not freed up again until after 7 p.m.

Much of the chaos might have been avoided with a little common sense on the part of the authorities, said Falcon in an interview with the News.

"I recognize we're dealing with a woman in distress . . . and it's something they have to be very sensitive about," he said. "But I can tell you . . . they don't shut down the Golden Gates Bridge for six hours, five hours or 15 minutes to deal with issues like this."

It should have been possible to keep at least some lanes open during the incident, said Falcon. He said has spoken with his staff and with the Vancouver Police Department in an effort to bring about a change of protocol that would ensure that is the case in future.

"We've got hundreds of thousands of people trying to utilize the transportation network," he said. "To shut it down for six hours should be the absolute last resort."

City of North Vancouver Mayor Darrell Mussatto shared the minister's opinion. He called publicly for a change to the system the following day.

"The first priority is always the person who's in distress," he said. "However, I do still believe we can co-exist, that we can deal with the person in distress and still maintain reasonable vehicle access at least in one direction."

Reducing traffic would have been far preferable to cutting it off entirely, said Mussatto.

"It caused quite significant delays and frustration and anxiety among people," he said.

Mussatto, who was a paramedic for 20 years before taking office, has seen such situations on Ironworker's defused successfully without a full closure. While in this case, the decision to cut off traffic was made to allow officers to hear the soft-spoken woman involved, the incident and others like it should be reviewed to see if less disruptive options were available, he said.

"At the end of the day, this might been the right thing to do, but I really want us to explore all the other possibilities," said Mussatto.

The Vancouver Police Department has since apologized for the disruption, but defended their actions as necessary to saving the subject's life.

There is more at stake in this than people's tempers, said Mussatto. If this were to happen during Vancouver's Olympics, the result could be quite serious.

"I think it could give the region a bit of a black eye," said Mussatto. "I'm concerned about that."

The West Vancouver police proposed a protocol for dealing with distressed individuals on the Lions Gate Bridge in 2006. In cases where negotiations promise to be protracted, the department would shield the distressed individual from traffic using a large truck and extendable tarpaulin screens. The plan was intended to allow at least one lane of traffic to pass while minimizing the odds of dangerous interaction between motorists and subject -- in other words to stop frustrated drivers from shouting "Jump."

So far, the new plan has only been tested once, but in that instance it was successful, said Const. Jeff Palmer, a spokesman for the department.

That option is something to be considered, said Mussatto. The mayor would like to see a single, consistent policy established for West Vancouver police, North Vancouver RCMP and the Vancouver Police Department aimed at minimizing congestion when dealing with people in such situations. He would also like to see other options explored, such as the addition of suicide barriers to the North Shore's two spans, or gates that would help motorists get off Ironworkers once a closure was initiated.

A third SeaBus would also help, he added. As word of the bridge closures spread on Canada Day, the vessels were swarmed by travellers looking for another way across the inlet.

"The lineups at the SeaBus I think were some of the longest I've ever seen," said Mussatto. "(Staff) were working very hard there . . . but they just weren't able to move those people."

The province announced plans for the long-sought-after third vessel earlier this month, but it won't come into full operation until early 2010.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2008, 7:59 AM
ravman ravman is offline
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This is yet another example how much much Gordo and Co actually care about British Columbians... i mean i am not happy that the bridge was closed and personally think there should be a cage or something that prevents pple from jumping but calling for a review just days after this event occured... i think the Liberals should spend that money elsewhere. There are issues that they hesitated to call for a review like the death at YVR and yet for this instnace , when no one died, they want a review and when someone actually did die, they were relcutant to call for a review....hmmm and btw i have worked at a Psych ward and know how hard it can be to deal with people with mental illness
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  #72  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2008, 12:23 AM
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what i still fail to understand is how the RCMP can tazer a man who is confused, hungry, lost, and doesn't understand english at the airport, but a woman in distress on the Second Narrows causes it to be closed for 5 hours.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2008, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
what i still fail to understand is how the RCMP can tazer a man who is confused, hungry, lost, and doesn't understand english at the airport, but a woman in distress on the Second Narrows causes it to be closed for 5 hours.
Well, it was actually the Vancouver Police Department that closed the Second Narrows and handled the incident.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2008, 12:45 AM
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^still...i'm sure they know how to handle a tazer.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2008, 12:50 AM
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^still...i'm sure they know how to handle a tazer.
Lets just say that there are serious problems with our national police force, but not so much with the VPD.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2008, 12:57 AM
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Lets just say that there are serious problems with our national police force, but not so much with the VPD.
no i agree with you on that, for many personal reasons. however, i would think that the TransCanada Highway would be patrolled by the RCMP. either way, there was a terrible mistake made with this. so many solutions aside to allowing this woman to have a whole bridge shut down on a major road.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2008, 1:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
no i agree with you on that, for many personal reasons. however, i would think that the TransCanada Highway would be patrolled by the RCMP. either way, there was a terrible mistake made with this. so many solutions aside to allowing this woman to have a whole bridge shut down on a major road.
Well technically, the Second Narrows is west of Boundary Road so i'm guessing it's still in VPD jurisdiction.

Really, we need to install some suicide prevention signs and maybe even some suicide hotline phone booths at the Lions Gate and Second Narrows.

While I don't think closing down the entire bridge was necessary in this situation, I have to applaud the VPD for saving her life. But they could've opened the eastern half of the bridge, and if noise was an issue they could've made the drivers go slower - like 30 km/h.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2008, 1:19 AM
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Acutally the RCMP are authorized to patrol the #1 in Vancouver, I received a ticket from them years ago.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2008, 1:32 AM
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If only a bus was near by Translink security sure knows how to use Tasers and smother people to death er a
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  #80  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2008, 1:52 AM
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Acutally the RCMP are authorized to patrol the #1 in Vancouver, I received a ticket from them years ago.
as have i, recently, and just before the tunnel under Hastings, in fact it was this afternoon.
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