America's Retail cores

[miketoronto]

On the theme of America's great cities thread and why they fell, I thought it would be interesting to look at one aspect of American cities that signaled decline more then anything, and that is retail.

I cam across this Department Store Museum blog and he has interesting stats on various store in the USA and Canada.
http://departmentstoremuseum.blogspot.com/

Anyway he has the size of some of the downtown flagships listed and some were easy to find on the net, so I put together a small list of just some of the stores, to give a taste. He did not have stats for all stores, so that is why some major ones may not be here. But overall it gives you a sense of just how large some of these places were.

What I find amazing, is how cities like Newark, Hartford, and LA were pretty high up at one time in terms of the size of their stores. I don't think today that anyone would think Newark once had one of the largest stores outside of the super big American cities. Anyway an interesting little look into the world of American retail during its heyday, when stores build grand palaces of consumption, etc.

Stores in red are still in business today.

Marshall Field & Company, Downtown Chicago
2.2 million sq feet. Currently about 800,000 sq feet of retail space.

Hudson's, Downtown Detroit
2 million sq feet. Tallest store in the world, with 15 floors of shopping.

Macy's, Manhattan
2 million sq feet.

Abraham & Straus, Downtown Brooklyn
1.6 million sq feet. Now a Macy's.

Lazarus, Downtown Columbus, Ohio
1.3 million sq feet

Bamberger's, Downtown Newark, NJ
1.2 million sq feet.

Riches, Downtown Atlanta
1.2 Million Sq Feet.

G. Fox & Company, Downtown Hartford
1.1 million sq feet

The May Company, Downtown Cleveland
1.1 million sq feet

The May Company, Downtown L.A.
1 million sq feet

Kaufmann's, Downtown Pittsburgh
1 million sq feet. Now a Macy's. Current selling space about 650,000 sq feet. There is a threat of further downsizing by Macy's.

Sibley's, Downtown Rochester, NY
1 million sq feet.

Carson Pirie Scott & Co, Downtown Chicago
974,000 sq feet.


Bloomingdales, Manhattan
935,000 sq feet

The Bon Marche, Downtown Seattle
878,000 sq. feet

Bullocks, Downtown L.A.
806,000 sq feet

Foley's, Downtown Houston
788,000 sq feet. Now a Macy's.

Macy's, Downtown San Francisco
678,000 sq feet. Enlarged to 800,000 sq feet in the 1990's.

Famous-Barr, Downtown St. Louis
650,000 sq feet. Now a Macy's and just downsized to 250,000 sq feet.

The Hetch Company, Downtown D.C.
555,000 sq feet. Downsized to about 256,000 sq feet and now a Macy's.


Burdine's, Downtown Miami
529,000 sq feet, now a Macy's.

[tablemtn]

Oddly enough, one small pocket of old-style downtown retail still exists in Nogales, Arizona, quite close to the border. It includes Bracker's Department Store, which was established back in the early 1920's, along with a dense little collection of other shops and stores all occupying the same block.

[Gordo]

I've never particularly cared for gigantic department stores, downtown or not.

[mhays]

Seattle's Bon Marche is now Macy's. Retail is probably half the square footage shown.

If you go by gross square footage, Downtown Seattle's Nordstrom (new location in old building, 1998) is 700,000 sf with about half being retail and half part of the corporate HQ.

[jg6544]

Face it, only a handful of American cities even have downtown retail cores anymore - New York, Chicago, San Francisco, maybe Seattle and Boston. Everywhere else has been suburbanized.

[glowrock]

The Macy's in Downtown Pittsburgh is probably a bit smaller than 650,000 sf now. One of the floors isn't really used any more. Then again, it's still an enormous store, with the cool feature of still being able to see many of the original 1920's era wooden escalators!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[bobdreamz]

Burdine's was founded in Miami and used to be called Florida's Department store for almost a century since it was the largest in state retailer until Macy's took over it. I'm surprised they kept the flagship store downtown since there are 7 other Macy's located in the suburbs. I believe the store downtown is actually two buildings right across the street from each other.
The old Burdine's :



Macy's with the crosswalk connecting the two buildings:



Along with the pic above came this news:

In what some hope is a signal of Macy’s long-term commitment to downtown Miami, the retailer is leasing unused space on the ground floor of its store to a local developer with plans to create a new entertainment destination.

Miami developer Barlington Group will unveil plans Thursday to the Miami City Commission for a mix of restaurants, lounges and cafes to fill up the 20,000 square feet in the Macy’s West building at the intersection of Flagler Street and North Miami Avenue. This space, which has been vacant for at least six years, was slated to become a Macy’s Home Store before the recession hit.

Instead, the owner of Miami’s Transit Lounge will open Avenue D – Jazz & Blues Lounge, a club featuring nightly live entertainment; and Kork Wine & Spirits, a combination martini/wine bar and wine cellar/liquor store.

Kana Cuban Coffee, a gourmet Hispanic coffee brand, is launching what it hopes is the beginning of a chain of cafes.

Other plans call for a national smoothie chain, a hip urban diner by a Miami restaurateur and one undetermined operator.

[Double L]

Macy's has always been devoted to keeping open their downtown department stores.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by jg6544

Face it, only a handful of American cities even have downtown retail cores anymore - New York, Chicago, San Francisco, maybe Seattle and Boston. Everywhere else has been suburbanized.

Portland and Minneapolis also come to mind. Not counting the places with downtown malls, like Indy, San Diego, Spokane...

Speaking of Target, Downtown Seattle's just started major construction this month. They bought the 102,000 sf base of a condo tower last year, between the main retail district and the Pike Place Market. Some demo happened last year, but now they appear to be in full swing.

[miketoronto]

Some Canadian stores. Not all, but the ones with some size information.



Eatons Queen Street Store, Downtown Toronto
1.6 million sq feet. Replaced by the Toronto Eaton Centre Mall
& a new flagship store. New flagship 1 million sq feet.
Now a Sears department store, and currently downsized by SEARS to about 500,000 sq feet. Largest SEARS store in the world.

Eatons Home Store, College Park, Downtown Toronto
600,000 sq feet. Closed when the Toronto Eaton Centre flagship opened.

Simpsons, Downtown Toronto
1 million sq feet. Now a Hudson's Bay Company store, and the main flagship of the chain.

Eatons, Downtown Montreal
1 million sq feet. Now a Les Ailes store and retail arcade.

Morgans, Downtown Montreal
About 1 million sq feet. Now a Hudson's Bay Store.


Eatons, Downtown Winnipeg
885,000 sq feet.

Woodwards, Downtown Vancouver
700,000 sq feet

Hudson's Bay, Downtown Winnipeg
600,000 sq feet

Hudson's Bay, Downtown Vancouver
500,000 sq feet

[Adele]

when it comes to shopping, the bigger the better. i love huge retail spaces.

[MolsonExport]

Eaton's former Montreal flagship store was gigantic, reputedly second only in size to Macy's NYC (billed as such in the 1970s). When I was a kid, we'd take the train (from the West Island...25kms to the West of Downtown) to downtown Montreal (Windsor Station) and walk the few blocks north to Eaton's. All our Xmas shopping was done there. Nothing since has replaced it, in terms of experience; although I still enjoy shopping at the Bay downtown Montreal.

The department store museum

The ninth floor restaurant was an art-deco masterpiece. Now protected as a heritage sight: http://www.heritagemontreal.org/en/9e-etage-chez-eaton/

wikipedia commons

A complete listing of the departments by floor, photos, etc.: http://departmentstoremuseum.blogspo...pq-canada.html

[hammersklavier]

Aren't you forgetting about Philadelphia's John Wanamaker? 2 million square feet on nine floors! And one of the most beautiful department store interiors anywhere in the U.S.!

In the late '80s and early '90s it got severely downsized, first to seven, then five floors, became (briefly) a Hecht's and then a Strawbridge's, and finally downsized further to three floors and a Lord & Taylor, before Macy's picked up the space. Macy's now has the problem that the available space is much too small for what it wants to sell and the offices that have been installed upstairs are now some of Center City's most desirable addresses, making expansion just that much harder.

Images: From here

And here

The Crystal Tea Room, on the 9th floor, is still in existence, and is used by a nearby Marriot as its reception hall.

[Capsule F]

Originally Posted by jg6544

Face it, only a handful of American cities even have downtown retail cores anymore - New York, Chicago, San Francisco, maybe Seattle and Boston. Everywhere else has been suburbanized.

You forgot Philly, which has a sizable downtown retail core. And also this stupid list forgot Wanamaker's, as the poster above me pointed out.

[Doug]

Other than specialty stores, is traditional downtown retail even viable? It can't compete with the pricing and selection of big box stores. Even specialty faces the threat of online stores. Maybe the future is big box stores adapted to urban settings.

[lawfin]

^^You won't find me dead in a big box store....I cannot tell you the last time I was in one

The Marshal Fields building in Chicago although not fully retail right now is Mammoth and super cool....although better when it was still MF

[jg6544]

Originally Posted by mhays

Portland and Minneapolis also come to mind. Not counting the places with downtown malls, like Indy, San Diego, Spokane...

Speaking of Target, Downtown Seattle's just started major construction this month. They bought the 102,000 sf base of a condo tower last year, between the main retail district and the Pike Place Market. Some demo happened last year, but now they appear to be in full swing.

I characterize center-city malls as part of the (lamentable) suburbanizing trend. A mall is a mall is a mall and it doesn't matter where it's located. There are a bunch of stores in Beverly Hills, but the overall effect, Rodeo Drive in particular, is that of a very high-end strip mall minus the donut shops.

[jg6544]

Originally Posted by Doug

Other than specialty stores, is traditional downtown retail even viable? It can't compete with the pricing and selection of big box stores. Even specialty faces the threat of online stores. Maybe the future is big box stores adapted to urban settings.

"Big Box" stores are ok if you want to buy 60 rolls of toilet paper at once and you don't mind shopping along with what appear to be shuffling bags of dirty laundry.

[miketoronto]

I did not forget about Philly. As I a said, he did not have space info for a number of stores, so what is why Philly was left out.

The old Wanamakers now Macy's is about 170,000 sq feet. That is interesting they want to make it bigger. That is good news actually.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Macy's, Downtown San Francisco
678,000 sq feet. Enlarged to 800,000 sq feet in the 1990's.

Macy's Union Square in San Francisco has 975,000 square feet of retail space.

From an article in the 1990s outlining Macy's Union Square's expansion which since has completed:

Originally Posted by SF Chronicle

All told, Macy's downtown retail space will increase to 975,000 square feet from 800,000 square feet, making it the third-largest department store complex in the country after Macy's Herald Square and Federated's Bloomingdale's flagship, both in Manhattan.

http://articles.sfgate.com/1995-06-2...-herald-square