Sports in Canadian culture

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This, if anything, might end up making the CFL more "major" league in the medium-term.

I agree. It probably would have the potential to "grow the game", to borrow a NHL cliché. The problem is that until the Argos stabilize and show the potential to earn a real profit, I doubt anyone will want to take on a suburban Toronto expansion team. I mean, think of how bad the Argos have it now, then factor in all of the challenges of an expansion team not the least of which is finding a place to play. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Ding ding.

Money isn't everything, but it's sure as hell a component of virtually all things we can think of. Even ideas have monetary values.


Money correlates to Interest and Talent there is no way you can get around it.

The CFL, is not a major league sport and should stop pretending to be so.

It's a high tier minor sport. There is nothing wrong with this and in fact I'd argue canada should have a much better developed minor league representation.

No. Just no.



The CFL actually is Canada's ONLY domestic major pro sports league.
The NHL does not count whatsoever. An American league run by Americans for Americans...just look at Quebec City vs. Phoenix if you want more proof.

The CFL is major league in Canada. Get over it.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Oh I don't know, it might have something to do with the fact that the CFL TV contract was for $40M per year and the NHL Canadian TV contract was for $433M per year. Or it might be the fact that NHL teams play 37 home dates per year and draw about 800,000 fans (at higher ticket prices) and CFL teams play 9 home games and draw about 270,000 fans per year. Or again how about the fact that NHL teams bring in over $100M (Toronto $142M) per year in revenue and CFL teams don't come close to that. It all comes down to the money.

well said. I dont know if i would have been so nice about that answer. what a dumb question No offence but seriously dude maybe educate yourself on sports economics before you try and argue about them

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Ding ding.

Money isn't everything, but it's sure as hell a component of virtually all things we can think of. Even ideas have monetary values.


Money correlates to Interest and Talent there is no way you can get around it.

The CFL, is not a major league sport and should stop pretending to be so.

It's a high tier minor sport. There is nothing wrong with this and in fact I'd argue canada should have a much better developed minor league representation.

So what exactly is your criteria for "major league"? It obviously can't be attendance. At just over 27,000 fans per game, the CFL is the sixth ranked league in average attendance in the world (ahead of such "minor leagues" as La Liga Spain, Liga MX Mexico, Serie A Italy and Ligue 1 France). It can't be TV ratings, because I know minor league baseball or basketball has zero TV ratings while the CFL is by far the highest TV rated sports league in Canada (excluding the NHL) beating the NFL, MLB, NBA and MLS. The Grey Cup is one of the highest rated TV shows of the year, but again I can't think of a single "minor league" sports championship that gets phenomenal TV numbers. So if it is not attendance and its not TV ratings, what exactly makes the CFL "minor league"? I am guessing it just comes down to your opinion, which like as*holes, everyone has one. The CFL is major league in Canada. It may not be major league in the United States, but we don't live in the U.S. Again, the CFL is major league in Canada. Get used to it.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Welkin

So what exactly is your criteria for "major league"? It obviously can't be attendance. At just over 27,000 fans per game, the CFL is the sixth ranked league in average attendance in the world It can't be TV ratings, because I know minor league baseball or basketball has zero TV ratings while the CFL is by far the highest TV rated sports league in Canada .

This argument is always so bizarre, size of league, salary caps, number of games, number of canadian players, none of that matter.

Yet average attendance is highly important inspite of the fact there are only 72 games a season.

Seriously, you have any idea how high Canada NHL games would rank if each team only had 8 games a season.

Again I'm not attacking the CFL, I'm attacking the premise that the league is a major league as we know.

The CSL is Canada's top tier all canadian soccer league, doesn't make it major it a major league.

Given a chance I'd prefer to support both the CFL, and CSL. But I would not mistake them for a major league.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Stryker

This argument is always so bizarre, size of league, salary caps, number of games, number of canadian players, none of that matter.

Yet average attendance is highly important inspite of the fact there are only 72 games a season.

Seriously, you have any idea how high Canada NHL games would rank if each team only had 8 games a season.

Again I'm not attacking the CFL, I'm attacking the premise that the league is a major league as we know.

The CSL is Canada's top tier all canadian soccer league, doesn't make it major it a major league.

Given a chance I'd prefer to support both the CFL, and CSL. But I would not mistake them for a major league.

I really don't give two shits if YOU think the CFL is minor league. I think it is major league and to ME that is all that matters.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by Stryker

This argument is always so bizarre, size of league, salary caps, number of games, number of canadian players, none of that matter.

Yet average attendance is highly important inspite of the fact there are only 72 games a season.

Seriously, you have any idea how high Canada NHL games would rank if each team only had 8 games a season.

Again I'm not attacking the CFL, I'm attacking the premise that the league is a major league as we know.

The CSL is Canada's top tier all canadian soccer league, doesn't make it major it a major league.

Given a chance I'd prefer to support both the CFL, and CSL. But I would not mistake them for a major league.

Again the CSL is not the 6th highest average attendance in the world, the CSL does not outdraw the NFL, MLB, NBA and MLS in TV ratings and the CSL Championship game is not the highest rated TV show in Canada. Again, the CFL is major league for Canada. Outside of the NHL, it is the most dominant sports league in all of Canada. However, I feel that I am wasting my time and that I should just debate this issue with my dog. The conversation would be just as intelligent.

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Again the CSL is not the 6th highest average attendance in the world, the CSL does not outdraw the NFL, MLB, NBA and MLS in TV ratings and the CSL Championship game is not the highest rated TV show in Canada. Again, the CFL is major league for Canada. Outside of the NHL, it is the most dominant sports league in all of Canada. However, I feel that I am wasting my time and that I should just debate this issue with my dog. The conversation would be just as intelligent.

Nope... CFL is third behind the NHL and the NFL.

Overall, more than 11.5 million viewers, or approximately one in three Canadians, watched some part of the game on TSN and in French on RDS.

The 101st Grey Cup saw the Roughriders defeat the Ticats 45-23 at Mosaic Stadium in Regina.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle15596026/

The most-watched television program of the past two years, the Seattle Seahawks' commanding 43-8 victory over the Denver Broncos attracted more than 18 million unique viewers - or more than one-in-two Canadians (53%) - on CTV or RDS. In 2012, SUPER BOWL XLVI attracted 8.2 million viewers in Canada.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1299...on-ctv-and-rds

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

Nope... CFL is third behind the NHL and the NFL.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle15596026/


http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1299...on-ctv-and-rds

That's one game though. Casual sports fans in Canada love a good one game hypefest like the SuperBowl as much as the Americans. For regular season games, the CFl averages more viewers than the NFL. It is the number 2 league in this country.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Again the CSL is not the 6th highest average attendance in the world, the CSL does not outdraw the NFL, MLB, NBA and MLS in TV ratings and the CSL Championship game is not the highest rated TV show in Canada. Again, the CFL is major league for Canada. Outside of the NHL, it is the most dominant sports league in all of Canada. However, I feel that I am wasting my time and that I should just debate this issue with my dog. The conversation would be just as intelligent.

Your consistently ignoring the fact that in large part the high audience figures are due to a small number of games.

Also the fact that football/rugby is one of the few sports where you can really enjoy the game more than a few rows back.

Please do not act like I'm just making a blanket statement because I do not like the CFL.

I seem to be one of the biggest proponents of expansion of the CFL something that even many die hards do not fully support.

However the facts are facts, the teams pull in much less television revenue compared to hockey, have far fewer games, and pay their players much less than their nfl counterparts.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I really don't give two shits if YOU think the CFL is minor league. I think it is major league and to ME that is all that matters.

You can feel however you wanna feel.

But I do care how you feel, as I do care how everyone feels on the matter.

I'm very much pro CFL if it can grow its base in Eastern Canada.

The East West gap is the major problem the country faces.

I do think it can be bridged, but I think the league has to have a more honest appraisal of where it stands at this moment in time.

[Kong Tower]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Your consistently ignoring the fact that in large part the high audience figures are due to a small number of games.

Also the fact that football/rugby is one of the few sports where you can really enjoy the game more than a few rows back.

Please do not act like I'm just making a blanket statement because I do not like the CFL.

I seem to be one of the biggest proponents of expansion of the CFL something that even many die hards do not fully support.

However the facts are facts, the teams pull in much less television revenue compared to hockey, have far fewer games, and pay their players much less than their nfl counterparts.

It feels somewhat speculative to assert that CFL attendance is large only because of it's limited amount of games. NFL teams play a comparable amount of home games, yet it would be absurd to argue that the NFL is not really a pro-league, or is not more popular than MLB at least.

I would also argue that your methodology for determining which sports teams to follow is not reflective of that of your average sports fan nor is really an "ideal" way to follow sports. There is no doubt that spectacle, talent and hype are important factors in sports business - and as you point out can be easily monetized, but there are also other factors like tradition, culture and community that make sport important.

The CFL struggles with the former set of factors, but for a country of Canada's size and economy is actually doing reasonably well and is growing. In the latter set of values the CFL is doing fantastic.

In this sense the CFL is a professional league with a very strong base. We just have to stop comparing it to the NFL and look at it more in the Canadian context. As the CFL continues to uniquely root itself in the Canadian context, I believe it's hype, talent and spectacle will continue to grow and along with it, revenue.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kong Tower

It feels somewhat speculative to assert that CFL attendance is large only because of it's limited amount of games. NFL teams play a comparable amount of home games, yet it would be absurd to argue that the NFL is not really a pro-league, or is not more popular than MLB at least.

.

That's actually a pretty good point. MLB total attendance is about 4 times that of the NFL, but no one would argue that MLB is more popular than NFL in the States.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Kong Tower

I would also argue that your methodology for determining which sports teams to follow is not reflective of that of your average sports fan nor is really an "ideal" way to follow sports. There is no doubt that spectacle, talent and hype are important factors in sports business - and as you point out can be easily monetized, but there are also other factors like tradition, culture and community that make sport important.

I would have no problem with the last bit if the league was well represented across the country, it's quite frankly not.

My metholodology is simply using actual statistics and facts to come to some sort of objective understanding of the standings of the CFL.

I'm very wary of people that parade the league around because it has Canadian in the title.

Not that I don't believe a league like this could help breed unity in a country that is very fractured.

In eastern Canada football is not a well established sport, i'd argue in many parts rugby had a stronger footing.

That's ignoring the most direct comparison that needs no american involvement and that is hockey.

Between 7(possible 9) teams the NHL is a sports juggernaut, we're achieve an intensity of fandom and participation that on a percapita basis most countries should and are jealous of.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Stryker

That's ignoring the most direct comparison that needs no american involvement and that is hockey.

Between 7(possible 9) teams the NHL is a sports juggernaut, we're achieve an intensity of fandom and participation that on a percapita basis most countries should and are jealous of.

Holy hyperbole Batman!

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Holy hyperbole Batman!

Explain?

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Explain?

Canadian NHL teams are in the position they are (paying stupidly high salaries) precisely because of the United States.
Do you think a 7 or 9 team Canada only league would command multimillion dollar salaries? Really?

I doubt that this country would be as hockey mad if there wasn't this pot of gold at the end road for the thousands of kids who start playing.

I actually think it is quite unhealthy for this country to be so obsessed about one sport to the detriment of all others.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Canadian NHL teams are in the position they are (paying stupidly high salaries) precisely because of the United States.
Do you think a 7 or 9 team Canada only league would command multimillion dollar salaries? Really?

I doubt that this country would be as hockey mad if there wasn't this pot of gold at the end road for the thousands of kids who start playing.

I actually think it is quite unhealthy for this country to be so obsessed about one sport to the detriment of all others.

If it weren't tied into the usa, I think we'd have about a 16 team league. And the salaries would be about half of what we have now.

So it would equal about the same as now.

The american's are often overstated in the NHL.

The league is largely canadian, we bring in alot of revenue.Alot of the talnet were a hockey mad country, I think it's amazing we get our very own sport to dominate in.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by Stryker

If it weren't tied into the usa, I think we'd have about a 16 team league. And the salaries would be about half of what we have now.

So it would equal about the same as now.

The american's are often overstated in the NHL.

The league is largely canadian, we bring in alot of revenue.Alot of the talnet were a hockey mad country, I think it's amazing we get our very own sport to dominate in.

lmao this is the most ridiculous thing I've heard on these boards and I've heard a lot of stuff.

The NHL is an American product run by Americans for Americans. The most important goal of that league is to further develop the massive American market for profit.

Despite generating a lot of revenue and players do not fool yourself into the misguided belief that somehow the NHL is Canada's league. If trading in the Canadian teams for a massive NFL-style tv contract was in the cards you better believe we'd see a gradual movement towards an American only league.

Teams like Phoenix are getting precedence over Quebec City. Give your head a shake.

The only league Canadians can confidently call their own is the CFL. Full stop.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

lmao this is the most ridiculous thing I've heard on these boards and I've heard a lot of stuff.

The NHL is an American product run by Americans for Americans. The most important goal of that league is to further develop the massive American market for profit.

I think for any hockey fan it'd be great if American's embraced the sport. To act like this is an agenda driven strickly for american's is so far from the truth.

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

Despite generating a lot of revenue and players do not fool yourself into the misguided belief that somehow the NHL is Canada's league. If trading in the Canadian teams for a massive NFL-style tv contract was in the cards you better believe we'd see a gradual movement towards an American only league.

I'll agree it's not totally canada's league, I'd argue it's about 50 percent ours, which is quite impressive when you realize it's one of the top 5 leagues on the planet.

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

Teams like Phoenix are getting precedence over Quebec City. Give your head a shake.

That's because Phoenix has ten times the room to grow. More importantly gives room for a big american contract.

The fact is QC is a shakey market for a team, the original reason for the team leaving in the first place was a lack of an arena.

The real enemy to Canadian Hockey is MLSE, they're holding a monopoly on of the few regions of canada that can support multiple teams.

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

The only league Canadians can confidently call their own is the CFL. Full stop.

The reality is because the league had a failed expansion into the united states.

Which is incredibly Ironic considering Hockey is statistically very canadian, while football is clearly a sport embraced by our american counterparts.

You can't use the national argument with football it just doesn't work.

The CFL is more similar to the AHL than anything else.

The stigma to seeing it as such is very concerning.

The true potential of the CFL is very much comparable to AHl.

They have similar sized salaries, minimum market sizes, even the attendance per team are very much in step.

As a proud supporter of the St John's Icecaps, I have trouble seeing issue with that perspective.