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  #361  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2013, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
There's a link in that Forbes article to a list of current NHL team Values.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/
The Leafs are about middling-NFL team value, right between the Broncos and the Steelers. That's insane.
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  #362  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2013, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I don't see why it would be new... perhaps interest does exist but just isn't visible?
Is it similar to the old adage about the CFL in Toronto?
"Lots of people here watch CFL Football, and just like watching porn, they don't tell anyone about it!"

(or something to that effect)
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  #363  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2013, 4:28 AM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Me neither. If Americans had the same mindset that we do, Auburn and Alabama would play football in front of 1,000 parents and girlfriends while the people of Tuscaloosa would stay home and watch the Seahawks vs. Bengals or whatever.

I think all of our Canadian CFL haters should start a public service campaign to inform all those NCAA fans that they're wasting their time watching "second rate football"
The CFL is not second rate it is just different. NCAA Ball compared to the NFL is like a cupcake to a full cake, its just a tiny piece of the bigger thing.

My beef with the CFL is that it has always been a sloppy game. Its sloppy because they don't commit the same time and resources as the NFL does into preparation and practice. If they did they would fix that glaring deficits almost overnight, so hopefully in time with new money into the league teams can invest more in the field level aspects of the game.

NCAA is more polished but its basic mickey mouse ball. Your watching a game with like 5 set plays and a bunch of kids just gun-slinging it. You get great athletic match-ups which sets the game apart at times but that's about it.

Many might not agree with it but its just my observation from a fan and a player of both. CFL game is better to play as you get more space to run around and hunt heads, but from a product on a pro level the lack of prep is obvious when you get so many "Big plays" which 90% of the time are due to simple mess up on assignments that would never happen in the NFL. Does that mean its a lesser game, no but it just shows that more prep and detail is needed towards prep for the game. Even during the GC I had to cringe and a few instances when both teams just did dumb sloppy stuff.

The NFL isn't immune to its own problems. The fetish for everybody on the field to be 6 foot 5 and 240lbs is clogging up the small field. Teams can't get any room to run decent plays and the play is starting to get bogged down. First and shorts in the NFL are hard to watch, your looking at landfill of bodies with no room to get anything going. Only teams with a solid slot game or a solid RB can make it work unless by luck something opens up for the QB in those situations.

This can all change though. If this money starts rolling in you can invest in better personnel on the assistant level and dedicate more time to more key specializations for each position like in the NFL.


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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
It is strange how some "Canadians" go out of their way to denigrate homegrown product. What's really strange is how many Americans watch the game on ESPN 2, obviously they see something that the NFL fanboys in Canada do not. The high ratings are somewhat shocking (to me). And it's not a fad like Australian rules football was for a while years ago.

And speaking of ratings, just listening to PTS and they speculated what will happen to the Raptors with the new hockey deal. Raptor ratings are infinitesimal now what will happen when they go head to head nightly with hockey. Raptor ratings are another dirty little secret brought to you courtesy MLSE. Sorry, meant to say hidden from you by MLSE.
The Raptors have always been given a short hand. They have always been dumped to the lesser networks that nobody has and thus it cripples its viewership.

Next, the Raptors are a "local" team with pockets of viability in places across Canada. Basketball draws flies all together though in Canada and its not just the Raptors that have issues in that regard. Most Ball gets low ratings here in Canada, and Basketball has more "casual" fans then the rest of the sports. Basketball is always cool but its not cool to watch crappy teams.

Plus there is also a distinction in how basketball fans consume games. Many more stream online then compared to Hockey or Football since its availability is so sporadic and sparse.

Rogers can't be a total dick when it comes to the Raptors since they own half of them. Hockey conflicts will result but you can already see that possibly Friday nights and Sunday mornings will become Raptor nights since those will be open from National Hockey coverage.
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  #364  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 6:48 AM
Welkin Welkin is offline
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Are you retarded? You must know nothing about the city if you think it's even remotely the same city it was in the 80's, it's an alpha city now with more population and economic clout. There have been several articles in this thread showing progress being made and if you've been following Olympic developments we've got a good shot at 2024 and Canada has a good shot at FIFA 2026, both of which would require a new 80,000+ stadium. Where do you think that will be based? Exactly. Where the largest TV, head office and advertising market in Canada is, you know, the region you hate so much that bankrolls every major league and national TV content in Canada?
A stadium for FIFA 2026 could be easily converted into an NFL caliber stadium, but I am not so sure about an Olympic stadium. That one would require hundreds of millions in renovations. Regardless if either stadium became available for an NFL team, you are still talking about not having a stadium availalble for an NFL team for another 13 years or more. Mr. Wilson will be dead long before that and the Bills will have a new owner. Are the new owners supposed to wait another ten years or more on a new stadium before moving the team to Toronto. If MLSE & Co. buy the Bills, they are going to want a team in Toronto way before then. Their only choice is to build their own stadium.
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  #365  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
They wouldn't be exempt, they'd have to play in an 800 million plus privately funded stadium. No Fed money gonna go to that.

But they can dream on, because if Jim Kelly can raise the cash there's no way he won't be awarded the team. But if it goes to auction it could be awarded to the highest bidder but I can't see the Toronto group being a popular choice in this "fight"
Just because MLSE and Bon Jovi are interested in buying the Bills does not mean that they will end up with the Bills. This will be a multi-billion investment and those guys don't exactly have really deep pockets (Bon Jovi $300M, Larry Tanebaum $500M) and unless the Rogers family makes a major investment, they are just dreamers. As a business, NFL teams are a lousy investment (unless you got in early) as the return on capital is often in the 1-2% range (not exactly a good place to put most of the family money). Most NFL teams are value rich and cash poor (even with free stadiums). A $2 Billion+ investment for $20-$30 million in profit is not a great investment vehicle. That is why NFL teams tend to be sold to football fanatics (as was the case in the last two) who have to money to enjoy their new plaything.

Also, keep in mind that the owners don't have to be local, so expect a bidding war when the team goes up for sale. The U.S. has 442 BILLIONAIRES that may want a chance to join the world's most exclusive Boys Club. The last two NFL teams sold (Jacksonville and Cleveland) were sold to owners that were not local. The Jacksonville Jaguars were sold to Shahid Khan who lives in Illinois. The Cleveland Browns were sold to Jimmy Haslam who lives in Tennessee. The next owner of Buffalo Bills could just as easily be from California or Texas rather than Toronto. I am just saying that it is no slam dunk on MLSE getting the Bills. In fact I would put the odds at less than 30%. But hey, it is fun to debate.
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  #366  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 4:27 PM
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I heard an idea floated on PTS yesterday and was wondering the thoughts of people here on it.

Jeff Blair was speculating on the possibility of Bell/TSN getting involved with a bid to bring baseball back to Montreal in the wake of them losing the NHL rights.

They need content - albeit the baseball and CFL seasons will overlap and doesn't really add anything to their winter schedule.
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  #367  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 4:33 PM
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So its sports day in Canada. Bobsled in Calgary, mens DH from Lake Louise, both televised. And Canadian Cycle Cross champs in White Rock, on line. So I have my afternoon planned. You can have your NFL, NHL, NBA or Poker give me amateur sports and I am happy..
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  #368  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 4:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Welkin View Post
A stadium for FIFA 2026 could be easily converted into an NFL caliber stadium, but I am not so sure about an Olympic stadium. That one would require hundreds of millions in renovations. Regardless if either stadium became available for an NFL team, you are still talking about not having a stadium availalble for an NFL team for another 13 years or more. Mr. Wilson will be dead long before that and the Bills will have a new owner. Are the new owners supposed to wait another ten years or more on a new stadium before moving the team to Toronto. If MLSE & Co. buy the Bills, they are going to want a team in Toronto way before then. Their only choice is to build their own stadium.
The Bills have a dirty lease that pretty much forces them there until 2020. The Olympic bid and the NFL in Toronto go hand in hand when you factor in the timelines. MLSE will sit on their hand if they know that Pubic money of some sort will dive in with them in building a Olympic/NFL facility.


Toronto is the only western major City that actually needs to Olmpics to not completly fall apart. Replacing the Gardnier, improvments to rail and transit wi
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  #369  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 6:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot View Post
I heard an idea floated on PTS yesterday and was wondering the thoughts of people here on it.

Jeff Blair was speculating on the possibility of Bell/TSN getting involved with a bid to bring baseball back to Montreal in the wake of them losing the NHL rights.

They need content - albeit the baseball and CFL seasons will overlap and doesn't really add anything to their winter schedule.
I know the patriotic thing to say is that baseball ought to return to Montreal, but I really think this is a long shot for the forseeable future. MLB wants a stadium done before they'll even consider a relocation or expansion and Bell isn't going to get into the building game on a wing and a prayer. The investment needed to create the content would exceed the money they could make off it in the medium term.

Plus there are a number of American markets that are underserved by the big four leagues (Portland, Sacramento, etc.) that would surely rank above a city that has already had a team and couldn't support it. I know I'm supposed to blame ownership rather than fans for the loss of the Expos but go and Google the attendance. Aside from a few modestly decent years in the early 80s, Expos attendance sucked pretty much from start to finish.
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  #370  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
The Bills have a dirty lease that pretty much forces them there until 2020. The Olympic bid and the NFL in Toronto go hand in hand when you factor in the timelines. MLSE will sit on their hand if they know that Pubic money of some sort will dive in with them in building a Olympic/NFL facility.


Toronto is the only western major City that actually needs to Olmpics to not completly fall apart. Replacing the Gardnier, improvments to rail and transit wi
I am sorry but I don't see it happening, especially if they manage to get the team in the next couple of years. That is a very long time to wait. You could not have a team start using a refurburished 2024 Olympic stadium until at least the start of the 2026 or 2027 NFL season (Olympic stadiums are designed nothing like NFL stadiums and it would take a massive overhaul to convert it over). If MLSE lands the team anytime in the next few years, they will probably start designing their own stadium because there is no guarantee that Toronto will land the 2024, the 2028 or even the 2032 Olympics. Timing is just not on their side.

Last edited by Welkin; Dec 1, 2013 at 4:39 PM.
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  #371  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 7:45 PM
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How much would it cost to lower the playing surface at Rogers Centre and how many seats would that add? Since Rogers Centre seems more suited for football, maybe Toronto would be better off building a baseball specific stadium and leave Rogers for football.
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  #372  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 8:07 PM
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http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=437932

Quote:
TORONTO -- An overwhelming majority of Canadians don't want an NFL team in Canada, especially if it means the demise of the CFL, a survey suggests.

Forty per cent of 1,007 on-line participants said they didn't want an NFL team in Canada at all while another 41 per cent added they'd welcome an NFL franchise in this country only if it co-existed with the CFL. The survey, released Sunday, was conducted in mid-November by Reginald Bibby, a professor of sociology at the University of Lethbridge, and pollster Angus Reid Global.
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  #373  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 9:14 PM
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This should put to rest any notion that the Bills in Toronto series is a success

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  #374  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 9:15 PM
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NFL/CFL - Canadian survey results (An NFL team in Canada can co-exist with the CFL, here's how):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle15677450/
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  #375  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 9:24 PM
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^^ Two different interpretations of the same poll.
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  #376  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot View Post
This should put to rest any notion that the Bills in Toronto series is a success

Are you posting that direct from today's game Frankie? Jeepers. If that's 40k I'll eat my hat.
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  #377  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Barnard's Star View Post
Are you posting that direct from today's game Frankie? Jeepers. If that's 40k I'll eat my hat.
Looks even less than the 22k that some people scoff at the Argos having.
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  #378  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 9:45 PM
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Yeah I'm watching the game right now to see if any more people creep in, but it's still looking pretty grim right now
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  #379  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Barnard's Star View Post
Are you posting that direct from today's game Frankie? Jeepers. If that's 40k I'll eat my hat.
It was from today yes. The lineups outside were stupid long. It filled up since then
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  #380  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2013, 12:10 AM
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watching the game right now, stadium looks 90% full, that pic must have been from earlier.
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