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  #361  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 2:27 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
The biggest thing that bugs me about the bloat of WFPS is that Winnipeg is notorious for having low wages for fire and paramedics.

He also couldn't wrap his head around not only why fire and paramedic is combined here, but also why fire are first responders most of the time: "Why the hell would you send 4+ people and an expensive fire truck to a minor medical issue?"
The first thing? No. That is not close to being true.

Second thing. Yeah, big problem there,
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  #362  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 2:58 AM
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The biggest thing that bugs me about the bloat of WFPS is that Winnipeg is notorious for having low wages for fire and paramedics, and this is likely because we have way too many fire fighters for what we need. Too many people not getting paid enough. Hate to say it but it's time for some big layoffs to adjust to what the "market" needs, not what the union wants.

I have a friend that's a paramedic outside Calgary, and he said when starting out everyone has to go move to small towns or other cities and work their way up before getting placed in Calgary, but people always refuse to go to Winnipeg because the pay is so bad.

He also couldn't wrap his head around not only why fire and paramedic is combined here, but also why fire are first responders most of the time: "Why the hell would you send 4+ people and an expensive fire truck to a minor medical issue?"
http://www.winnipeg.ca/corp/document...disclosure.pdf

I see a couple firefighters at $125K + and whole lot at $100K +, in the real world you need a ''real degree" to make that in govt., couple that with the fact that firefighters do little more than cook and sleep on the job (to rest up for their other job) and the money isn't bad.
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Last edited by rrskylar; Jan 17, 2018 at 6:33 AM.
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  #363  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 2:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
http://www.winnipeg.ca/corp/document...disclosure.pdf

I see a couple firefighters at $125K + and whole lot at $100K +, in the real world you need a ''real degree" to make that in govt., couple that with the fact that firefighters do little more than cook and sleep on the job (to rest up for their other job) and the money isn't bad.
I have to disagree with you. This is a big impression of Firefighters and for probably 75% of the time they do cook, train and exercise. They do have favorable hours working 4 on/4 off type splits for performing side work. But I think you underestimate what it takes and the training involved to run into a burning building. They do spend a lot of time extracting people from car accidents and being first on scene as first responders.

I am not on board with all of the management and bureaucratic crap that goes with the senior officials but I think the rank and file get paid for what they do when it counts.

How much should you pay for someone who is essentially EMT trained, willing to risk their lives when they go to work and are consistently exposed to hazardous elements and chemicals each time they attend a fire scene?
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  #364  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
I have to disagree with you. This is a big impression of Firefighters and for probably 75% of the time they do cook, train and exercise. They do have favorable hours working 4 on/4 off type splits for performing side work. But I think you underestimate what it takes and the training involved to run into a burning building. They do spend a lot of time extracting people from car accidents and being first on scene as first responders.

I am not on board with all of the management and bureaucratic crap that goes with the senior officials but I think the rank and file get paid for what they do when it counts.

How much should you pay for someone who is essentially EMT trained, willing to risk their lives when they go to work and are consistently exposed to hazardous elements and chemicals each time they attend a fire scene?
As little as the supply of people willing & able to do the job for the money equates the number of people required to fill the roll. Currently I'd hazard to guess there are more people trying/willing and able to be firefighters then there are positions available.
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  #365  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Currently I'd hazard to guess there are more people trying/willing and able to be firefighters then there are positions available.
Even if you could effectively replace the entire WFPS with people interested and physically capable of doing those jobs there is a lot of value in knowledge of having done that type of job for many, many years. That isn't the type of knowledge you can get without having worked with other experienced people as your mentors.

While on paper what they are paid may seem high but when you need to pickup the phone and call 911 because your family is in trouble do you want the person that is in their first month on the job or someone that has spent 20 years learning the craft coming to help?
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  #366  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
I have to disagree with you. This is a big impression of Firefighters and for probably 75% of the time they do cook, train and exercise. They do have favorable hours working 4 on/4 off type splits for performing side work. But I think you underestimate what it takes and the training involved to run into a burning building. They do spend a lot of time extracting people from car accidents and being first on scene as first responders.

I am not on board with all of the management and bureaucratic crap that goes with the senior officials but I think the rank and file get paid for what they do when it counts.

How much should you pay for someone who is essentially EMT trained, willing to risk their lives when they go to work and are consistently exposed to hazardous elements and chemicals each time they attend a fire scene?
Couple buddies are firefighters, shift work is the hardest part of the job and the job is not a hard one, to be a firefighter you need to be physically fit when hired and have taken an eight month fire fighting course which they offer in Brandon, the course is fairly easy.
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  #367  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
Even if you could effectively replace the entire WFPS with people interested and physically capable of doing those jobs there is a lot of value in knowledge of having done that type of job for many, many years. That isn't the type of knowledge you can get without having worked with other experienced people as your mentors.

While on paper what they are paid may seem high but when you need to pickup the phone and call 911 because your family is in trouble do you want the person that is in their first month on the job or someone that has spent 20 years learning the craft coming to help?
Come on do you think fighting fires is rocket science, you hook up a hose and point it at the fire sure there are a lot of variables, hazardous materials etc. but 25 years ago firefighters that got hired had a 3-5 weeks training and were good to go and everything worked out just fine.

Don't believe the union hype that firefighting is some very specialized training or are they medically trained like nurses.
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  #368  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
Even if you could effectively replace the entire WFPS with people interested and physically capable of doing those jobs there is a lot of value in knowledge of having done that type of job for many, many years. That isn't the type of knowledge you can get without having worked with other experienced people as your mentors.

While on paper what they are paid may seem high but when you need to pickup the phone and call 911 because your family is in trouble do you want the person that is in their first month on the job or someone that has spent 20 years learning the craft coming to help?
You're missing the point. There's still a minimum salary needed to retain talent to reach 10, 20 years or whatever you need them for. I'd say the pay they receive is far in excess of that.
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  #369  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
I have to disagree with you. This is a big impression of Firefighters and for probably 75% of the time they do cook, train and exercise. They do have favorable hours working 4 on/4 off type splits for performing side work. But I think you underestimate what it takes and the training involved to run into a burning building. They do spend a lot of time extracting people from car accidents and being first on scene as first responders.

I am not on board with all of the management and bureaucratic crap that goes with the senior officials but I think the rank and file get paid for what they do when it counts.

How much should you pay for someone who is essentially EMT trained, willing to risk their lives when they go to work and are consistently exposed to hazardous elements and chemicals each time they attend a fire scene?
I know a couple of firefighters, and while I value what they do, they'll be the first to admit they are paid a lot to mostly do nothing.

Mostly.

They ALL seemengly have energy for jobs on the side. Good on them, but that means the system is flawed.
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You're missing the point. There's still a minimum salary needed to retain talent to reach 10, 20 years or whatever you need them for. I'd say the pay they receive is far in excess of that.
Also agreed.
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  #370  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
You're missing the point. There's still a minimum salary needed to retain talent to reach 10, 20 years or whatever you need them for. I'd say the pay they receive is far in excess of that.
No wonder this city runs a massive deficit. Many of these people are grossly over paid. We bitch about nurses and medical professionals making too much money, but you look at the WRHA disclosure and there are way less front line workers making over 100K per per year than city employees. I have 3 degrees and make far less than some of these people who have far less responsibility than I do. I'm beginning to think I may need a career change.

The mayor makes ~ $180,000 per year and there are approximately 14 other people who make substantially more than he does. The Chief of Police makes more than the Premier or Prime Minister?!?!
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  #371  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 6:35 PM
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The mayor makes ~ $180,000 per year and there are approximately 14 other people who make substantially more than he does. The Chief of Police makes more than the Premier or Prime Minister?!?!
Who doesn't?

/s

Each member of the Peguis First Nation band council made more money last year than Winnipeg's mayor, Manitoba's premier and nearly every one of the province's MPs.
- Winnipeg Free Press, "Peguis leaders' pay beats premier's", 12/19/2009
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  #372  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 6:53 PM
dmacc dmacc is online now
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No wonder this city runs a massive deficit.
Actually the city doesn't run a massive deficit, the Province does and so do the Feds. I believe provincial legislation prevents municipalities from running deficits... I'm not positive on the legislation part.

However, if we weren't paying these people such lucrative salaries then we could probably properly fund the programs that sorely need it.
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  #373  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 4:43 AM
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All these overpaid officials for all these years and we wonder why our road infrastructure is the worst of any city over 500,000 in North America. Is it common for other cities in Canada to have 47% of their budget dedicated to the police and fire departments?
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  #374  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 11:55 AM
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All these overpaid officials for all these years and we wonder why our road infrastructure is the worst of any city over 500,000 in North America. Is it common for other cities in Canada to have 47% of their budget dedicated to the police and fire departments?
No, it isn't. All of the comparisons I've seen have us at the worst.
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  #375  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 12:16 PM
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  #376  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 2:37 PM
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How policing works could be revamped. I worked in a bar for most of my adult life so I engaged with police regularly. There has to be a better way...
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  #377  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2018, 11:02 PM
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Just a little update on our man BB....

....from a different prospective. hope you enjoy the read. You are heading down south this winter....aren't you???

FRIDAY, JANUARY 12, 2018
Winnipeg Mayor Brian Bowman - from Bold to Scold

What a start to the new year---Winnipeg's pipsqueak Mayor gets bitch-slapped in public by the Winnipeg police department. You don't see that every day.

When Brian Bowman rebuked the police service this week for loaning the police helicopter to a movie company (at a full cost-recovery price) for a short scene he demonstrated his limited grasp of how the city works.

Just as his city hall colleague Councillor I'M-MARTY-MORANTZ-AND-I'M-A-LAWYER learned to his chagrin two years ago, the police department reports to the police commission, not the mayor or city council. Morantz had tried to browbeat a senior police official at a committee meeting, but was quickly informed by the police chief of the way things run and the next day ate crow for breakfast, lunch and supper.

Bowman was delivered a hefty helping of his own on Monday when the police responded to his lecture about extending police resources to Hollywood directors.

"This is what any large city would do if you're trying to attract the film industry here, and we have been very successful, from my understanding, in doing that for a long time...It's simply beyond me why this is an issue," police spokesman Const. Rob Carver told reporters, according to the CBC.

For the record, the helicopter was flown to La Salle, Manitoba, for a scene in the movie 'The Parts You Lose' being shot there. That's a whopping 20 miles (32 kilometres) past Winnipeg city limits. The helicopter flies at up to 380 kilometres an hour and could respond to any call for service in the city in 5 minutes.

Why the mayor decided to stick his nose where it doesn't belong is a mystery, but an even bigger question is: what happened to Bold Brian, the man who ran for mayor four years ago?

You remember him, don't you? He was going to be the "cool" mayor.The guy who loved heavy metal bands, who dodged bullets in a bus hijacking in Mexico, who was going to transform Winnipeg into a city of the future with rapid transit extending into every corner of the metropolis and wi-fi on every speedy bus to link everyone to the universe. How cool is that?

Three years later, he's the scold, the stickler for rules even if he's wrong, the drudge who's only success as a mayor is raising taxes, frontage fees, water rates, bus fares, and speeding tickets. Remember how he was the candidate for mayor who promised lower taxes than SpeNDP candidate Judy Wasylycia-Leis? You've got to laugh to keep from crying.

With Bowman looking ahead at running for re-election in 2018, the question is how does he rate as a mayor? To be fair, we're going to look for the answer from the only man who knows---Brian Bowman.

Anyone running for office delivers a barrage of promises for what he or she is going to do if elected, then hopes voters forget most of what was promised. In the case of Brian Bowman, one solemn pledge stands out, and its that alone that delivers the measure of the mayor.

"I'll go as far as I have to, to restore Winnipeggers' trust and faith in city hall," Bowman told the CBC and other news outlets in year-end 2014 interviews.

His predecessor Sam Katz's final years in office were characterized by scandal---rigged bids on multi-million dollar construction projects, preferential treatment for an investor of the mayor's baseball team, a suspicious purchase of a million dollar house for cash by the mayor from an officer that that investor's business, damning audits, ending with an RCMP investigation into allegations of kickbacks for a sweetheart deal on the construction of a new headquarters for the Winnipeg Police Service.

Winnipeggers were shell-shocked by the time of Bowman's election and welcomed his promise for clean government. How's he done?

Uh oh.

Bowman's third year in office ended with city hall under a cloud of controversy that's engulfed city councillors, the mayor, the city's CAO, various city administrators (now gone), and a prominent developer. Sound familiar?

It stemmed from a plan to extend a road in Charleswood (called the Sterling Lyon Parkway). The extension would mean expropriation of 96 homes. The homeowners were surpised to find out about the plan for their properties because public consultations held by the city never mentioned it. Sound familiar?

Of course it does. This is the same city scam that's been run for years. Take the Disraeli Freeway replacement in Sam Katz's day.

Phony public consultations led neighbouring residents to think they had a choice of one of three options for a new bridge. They were surprised to learn the city actually planned to build a fourth bridge design, costing more than residents approved, which had been planned for years but had never been made public.

City officials used the same template in Charleswood under Brian Bowman.
- Phony public consultations.
- Three options.
- A fourth planned all along chosen to go ahead.

Only they hit a snag. They came up against people who had money. Who could hire lawyers and researchers and planners of their own. And the scheme fell apart in the bright light of day, but not before uncovering documentation suggesting that their own councillor knew about option four but didn't tell them. Councillor Marty Moranz plans to call for a city audit of the project, that's now on hold.

Internal emails also disclosed that the mayor at one point intervened personally to stop the road extension project (temporarily) for an undisclosed reason. Did his intervention have anything to do with his mother, who lives in the area and who attended at least one public hearing? You've got to admire a man who loves his mother.

Anything else? There's the Parking Authority which keeps getting caught gouging drivers. Most recently they planned to ticket Saturday parkers who thought the stickers that read "2 hours complimentary parking on Saturday" meant 2 hours free parking. Oh, no, said the Parking Authority. It obviously meant pay for two hours and get two hours additional for free. What's the matter with people? Can't they understand plain English?

There's the North End sewage-treatment plant that continues to hemmorhage money. In 2016 it was estimated to cost almost $800 million. We wish. The current estimate is $1.4 billion and only God knows when it will be completed. Apparently everybody we've hired so far doesn't know what they're doing. Bowman is unperturbed.

What's a billion? Bold, that's what.

The RCMP investigation into the construction of the Winnipeg Police headquarters has entered its third year. It has expanded to include construction of the Canada Post Mail Processing Plant near the airport, which was built by the same company involved in the police HQ project.

And remember how Winnipeg wound up building a firehall on land it didn't own on Taylor Avenue in River Heights? A bylaw passed in 2014 called for expropriation of the land. The city was to receive recommendations early in 2015 on what to pay.

The city clerk's website says the matter is still "active", which means the city still owns a firehall built on land it doesn't own, three years after Bowman was elected.

Do voters have more trust in city hall than they did before the last mayoral election?

Bwahahahaha.
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  #378  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2018, 3:37 PM
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This is kind of funny, and not presently firewalled.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...471811934.html
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