Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[asies1981]

The Birdie is moving forward.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by asies1981

The Birdie is moving forward.

Hideous. That corner deserves so much better. I also don’t think the city should’ve given them the height variance. They could’ve easily added one more floor to reach 100 ft.

[Orlando]

I agree that the city should have had them add at least one, if not 2 more, stories, just like the Morton across the street. Though, I'm not sure why you think it's "hideous". I like the dark aesthetic.

[jubguy3]

I think it fits in character with the area really well. It’s replacing a corner surface lot with an aesthetically pleasing building. Height isn’t really the issue here.

[bob rulz]

I think that will be one of the most attractive buildings downtown and I don't really understand how somebody could think it's hideous. I think it looks great. I'm a big fan of what CW Urban has been doing.

At first I was worried about height, but the more I look at it, the more I like it. The real problem with that corner is the godawful blank white office building on the northeast corner.

Now would I have preferred a couple more floors? Yes, and I think it would've been doable. But I'm not upset about it. A parking lot is going away for what actually looks to be a pretty interesting mixed-use building.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I would imagine City Creek Center is doing fine. It's in a walkable, centralized downtown location that's near tons of other amenities, it's popular with tourists, it has options not available anywhere else in the valley, and it serves as a good place to congregate/walk around (it's visually appealing and allows easy access to lots of other nearby things). It is obviously going to have to adapt over time, but I think City Creek is set up well to adapt because of its location and design, and because its owners have infinitely huge pockets.

Amazon and the Internet in general are certainly contributing to the decline in retail, but I think the retail apocalypse is also a result of overbuilt retail. The U.S. built far more retail space than any other country, even when accounting for size and population, and now the market is adjusting in a huge way. The Internet is a factor (a huge factor admittedly), but people aren't suddenly going to want to stop going out to places. There will always be a market for retail. The suburban strip malls and shopping malls are going to be what suffers the most. The shopping centers that take efforts to incorporate more mixed-use and walkable designs will survive.

The Gateway is a good example. If Gateway was in a suburban location, it probably would still be empty and there would likely be talks of tearing it down. However, because it's downtown, it can be adapted for uses like the bars and entertainment venues that it's getting that probably wouldn't be viable in a suburban location (particularly in Utah). Gateway's decline had just as much to do with poor upkeep, competition from City Creek, and its location near the homeless shelter as anything else. With Gateway no longer a shopping mall, City Creek really doesn't have a lot of local shopping center competition. City Creek will, of course, never adapt to incorporate bars, but I don't think it will have to. Gateway and surrounding downtown neighborhoods will accommodate that need well enough.

I would be interested to see how much percentage increase in business for CCC the Convention Center Hotel, Tower 8, along with 111/Eccles Theatre has added and will be adding when all are finished. I think CCC couldn't have a brighter outlook. I think Gateway is going to emerge very successfully also, as many have predicted.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Hideous. That corner deserves so much better. I also don’t think the city should’ve given them the height variance. They could’ve easily added one more floor to reach 100 ft.

Yeah that's ugly and fat and suburban.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

Yeah that's ugly and fat and suburban.

As is the tradition for most Salt Lake residential development.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

Yeah that's ugly and fat and suburban.

Sounds like me.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

If that is dark brick then I LOVE it. If is is stucco then it is a crime.

[bob rulz]

This looks better than 90% of the apartment complexes that have gone up downtown in the last 10 years. If this were mid-block infill you guys would be all over it.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

Sounds like me.

Lol

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

If that is dark brick then I LOVE it. If is is stucco then it is a crime.

I zoomed up the size quite a bit, and the darker grays are showing as brick. You can also tell by the closer up rendering posted by Isaac in the write-up. The lighter street level appears to be some type of stone paneling. Subjectively speaking, I think it will be a great fit in that neighborhood. The Morton also follows the same palette. Those gray tones are very much on trend right now. I'm fine with it as long as it has a generous amount of brick, a variety of different tones, mono or otherwise, and the dark gray doesn't become over used, like the beige stucco.

Rendering of the northeast corner of The Birdie. Image courtesy Salt Lake City public documents. - https://www.buildingsaltlake.com/com...town-building/

.

[DCRes]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I would imagine City Creek Center is doing fine. It's in a walkable, centralized downtown location that's near tons of other amenities, it's popular with tourists, it has options not available anywhere else in the valley, and it serves as a good place to congregate/walk around (it's visually appealing and allows easy access to lots of other nearby things). It is obviously going to have to adapt over time, but I think City Creek is set up well to adapt because of its location and design, and because its owners have infinitely huge pockets.

Amazon and the Internet in general are certainly contributing to the decline in retail, but I think the retail apocalypse is also a result of overbuilt retail. The U.S. built far more retail space than any other country, even when accounting for size and population, and now the market is adjusting in a huge way. The Internet is a factor (a huge factor admittedly), but people aren't suddenly going to want to stop going out to places. There will always be a market for retail. The suburban strip malls and shopping malls are going to be what suffers the most. The shopping centers that take efforts to incorporate more mixed-use and walkable designs will survive.

The Gateway is a good example. If Gateway was in a suburban location, it probably would still be empty and there would likely be talks of tearing it down. However, because it's downtown, it can be adapted for uses like the bars and entertainment venues that it's getting that probably wouldn't be viable in a suburban location (particularly in Utah). Gateway's decline had just as much to do with poor upkeep, competition from City Creek, and its location near the homeless shelter as anything else. With Gateway no longer a shopping mall, City Creek really doesn't have a lot of local shopping center competition. City Creek will, of course, never adapt to incorporate bars, but I don't think it will have to. Gateway and surrounding downtown neighborhoods will accommodate that need well enough.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. The retail centers that are really hurting are those with multiple large units and not in primary locations. Power centers ( and I think malls too) can still survive but you have to be the premier center with optimal location. The tenants that will survive long term will congregate together in the best locations and the other locations will eventually to turned into something else.

[Old&New]

Salt Lake City is very very very likely to be chosen by the USOC: https://www.9news.com/mobile/video/e...bid/73-8312480

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by DCRes

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. The retail centers that are really hurting are those with multiple large units and not in primary locations. Power centers ( and I think malls too) can still survive but you have to be the premier center with optimal location. The tenants that will survive long term will congregate together in the best locations and the other locations will eventually to turned into something else.

Valley Fair and Fashion Place are pretty good examples of suburban shopping malls that have understood how to adapt and have extended their shelf life. Valley Fair probably would be gone were it not for the investments that the owners made in updating it, and the work that West Valley City has done to make their downtown denser and more mixed-use. Fashion Place has seen its share of updates, but it also couldn't be in a better location.

That's why I look at what Riverton is building right now (Mountain View is it called?) and I'm just baffled. I think that's a shopping center that's going to struggle from the outset. I also don't see how a place like Jordan Landing survives the retail apocalypse. They haven't done anything to adapt. I just don't see how even the rapidly-growing southwest side of the valley can support 3 big power centers (Jordan Landing, The District, Mountain View) in this modern day.

I think Lehi with its growth and tech center has a big chance to really do something that will draw people in as a mixed-use destination, but I don't really trust these cities to have that kind of long-term vision.

Anyway I am going on a tangent that's not too related to Salt Lake City itself, but I do think this is important to think about. Adapting empty retail is the next big frontier in urban planning. Our next generation of plannners are going to make careers out of this.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Adapting empty retail is the next big frontier in urban planning. Our next generation of plannners are going to make careers out of this.

Yes, and I think we've about reached the limit to how many abandoned big-box stores they can turn into VASA fitness centers.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

Yes, and I think we've about reached the limit to how many abandoned big-box stores they can turn into VASA fitness centers.

I’m still holding out for one at The Gateway. Fingers crossed

[flyinpenguin]

Well, I wouldn't put Fashion Place, and Valley Fair in the same sentence. Fashion Place is probably one of the top 20 malls in the country with a waiting list to open a store. Valley Fair has had to fight for scraps. The recently announced All Star Bowling w/Pins and Ales, the upcoming Hobby Lobby, and other soon to be announced tenants will help.

Jordan Landing has adapted although not in major noticeable ways. Airborne trampoline fun center to be taking old Sears space continues their adaptation.

Mtn View has baffled me since it opened. Most notably in the fact that recently restaurants are the first to open in a center, however here it was a good month before any food places opened. according to recent leasing plans the next phase will be heavy on the office space but I have heard that Cinemark is coming.

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Valley Fair and Fashion Place are pretty good examples of suburban shopping malls that have understood how to adapt and have extended their shelf life. Valley Fair probably would be gone were it not for the investments that the owners made in updating it, and the work that West Valley City has done to make their downtown denser and more mixed-use. Fashion Place has seen its share of updates, but it also couldn't be in a better location.

That's why I look at what Riverton is building right now (Mountain View is it called?) and I'm just baffled. I think that's a shopping center that's going to struggle from the outset. I also don't see how a place like Jordan Landing survives the retail apocalypse. They haven't done anything to adapt. I just don't see how even the rapidly-growing southwest side of the valley can support 3 big power centers (Jordan Landing, The District, Mountain View) in this modern day.



I think Lehi with its growth and tech center has a big chance to really do something that will draw people in as a mixed-use destination, but I don't really trust these cities to have that kind of long-term vision.

Anyway I am going on a tangent that's not too related to Salt Lake City itself, but I do think this is important to think about. Adapting empty retail is the next big frontier in urban planning. Our next generation of plannners are going to make careers out of this.

[delts145]

The Huntsman Cancer Institute (HCI) breaks ground for Utah's first Proton Therapy Center

By Ben Lockart, Deseret News - https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...sen-hatch.html

The site of the Huntsman Cancer Institute's new Sen. Orrin G. Hatch Center for Proton Therapy in Salt Lake City is pictured on Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2018. Photo By Scott G. Winterton.



http://static-16.sinclairstoryline.c...?1542736986313