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  #12701  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 7:07 AM
ArabianNights1 ArabianNights1 is offline
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tell em... make the escalator work...
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  #12702  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 7:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan View Post
The only Walgreens with Windows I can think of is in Milwaukee—it’s in an old corner store at the foot of an apartment building. They still wanted to use as much of interior space as possible, though, so to hide the backs of their shelves they covered the windows with signs:

Google Streetview

Better than your average Walgreens, IMO.
What about the ones at Washington & Michigan and Washington & State?
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  #12703  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 7:42 AM
ArabianNights1 ArabianNights1 is offline
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they've got signs in front of windows in front of shelves, interior space, whole block tho
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  #12704  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 8:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lawfin View Post
I don't know maybe its just me but that design strikes me as anything but pedestrian friendly....

It instead strikes me as bordering the parking lot as an anchor tenant in some inland empire lifestyle center
Nope... it's 3 blocks from Azusa City Hall, and right across the street from a new light-rail station that's about to start construction. The exact opposite of a lifestyle center... it's on the edge of Azusa's "downtown", so the large portico helps to draw pedestrians in from the busier streets.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=azusa,...292.98,,0,4.08

The portico and plaza are pretty expansive, but I don't have a problem with that. Does every corner of Chicago have to be an arrow-straight monotonous 3-5 story commercial corridor in order to be considered "urban"? This entrance is certainly better and more grand than the undignified entrance to the Peterson Target, where pedestrians and motorists alike scuttle into the store from below like rats (to quote Vincent Scully).

For a prominent intersection (Division/Larrabee) that is rapidly developing into a dense residential corridor, and may one day host a subway station, I'd like to see some kind of plaza space, to maintain some usable outdoor space as the rest of the neighborhood gets developed into residential buildings and green lawns-behind-fences.
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  #12705  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 2:42 PM
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^ Here's hoping you're right, and that they'll phone in something more welcoming than the fortress-like Peterson design (and better than the planned West Loop Target on Jackson, which is pretty similar to the one on Peterson).

Do we know for sure yet where the store would be or how it would be oriented? Having the main entrance at Division/Larrabee would certainly make some sense, but there would also be major questions about how it was oriented therefrom. I'd rather see it extend north along Larrabee and not take up too much frontage along Division with a giant blank wall.

The whole Division/Clybourn/Sedgwick/Orleans intersection is truly a planning catastrophe, and a recent one at that (around 2003, if memory serves). There was no need to widen the road for two turn lanes from EB Division to SB Orleans; at minimum, the outer turn lane should be reclaimed for sidewalk space and shorter crossing distances. Even if the Target at Larrabee is done well, crucial access from the east will still be unpleasant for most.
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  #12706  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ArabianNights1 View Post
they've got signs in front of windows in front of shelves, interior space, whole block tho
Point being they're open at eye level, unlike the Milwaukee example. I doubt anyone cares about the windows being completely open, to the contrary I would say having a low display is better since it gives depth and draws the eye in more.
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  #12707  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Nope... it's 3 blocks from Azusa City Hall, and right across the street from a new light-rail station that's about to start construction. The exact opposite of a lifestyle center... it's on the edge of Azusa's "downtown", so the large portico helps to draw pedestrians in from the busier streets.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=azusa,...292.98,,0,4.08

The portico and plaza are pretty expansive, but I don't have a problem with that. Does every corner of Chicago have to be an arrow-straight monotonous 3-5 story commercial corridor in order to be considered "urban"? This entrance is certainly better and more grand than the undignified entrance to the Peterson Target, where pedestrians and motorists alike scuttle into the store from below like rats (to quote Vincent Scully).

For a prominent intersection (Division/Larrabee) that is rapidly developing into a dense residential corridor, and may one day host a subway station, I'd like to see some kind of plaza space, to maintain some usable outdoor space as the rest of the neighborhood gets developed into residential buildings and green lawns-behind-fences.
Yeah I looked at that street scape last night. It does not strengthen your contention that this is pedestrian friendly.....clearly this entire strip is auto driven not pedestrian driven...

That area makes Peterson.....probably the least pedestrian street on the north side.....look like Champs Elysees
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  #12708  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 4:44 PM
ArabianNights1 ArabianNights1 is offline
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they open and close them,,, for the weather
so, depends on the wether
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  #12709  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 5:01 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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Originally Posted by lawfin View Post
That area makes Peterson.....probably the least pedestrian street on the north side.....look like Champs Elysees
I agree.

Saying that design is less friendly than Peterson is saying a lot too considering Peterson is literally a highway. I mean It's the route highway 41 follows after Lake Shore Drive ends until it turns into a freeway again north of Skokie...
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  #12710  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 5:10 PM
ArabianNights1 ArabianNights1 is offline
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course then you get the buskers, there noise an noise
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  #12711  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 7:34 PM
PKDickman PKDickman is offline
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Originally Posted by the pope View Post
speaking of projects in Wicker Park, anyone know what's being constructed on Damen, just north of North? (NE Corner, about 200 north of the main intersection). Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread....
A single story commercial placekeeper.



The northern most unit seems to be leased, but I don't know who.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16455...ue-Chicago-IL/

At $60/sf/yr my guess is that they will be very pricey.

Paul K. Dickman
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  #12712  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PKDickman View Post
A single story commercial placekeeper.



The northern most unit seems to be leased, but I don't know who.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16455...ue-Chicago-IL/

At $60/sf/yr my guess is that they will be very pricey.

Paul K. Dickman
remember the yukon building at van buren & clark was a placeholder...100+ yrs ago
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  #12713  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 9:05 PM
ArabianNights1 ArabianNights1 is offline
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Originally Posted by PKDickman View Post
A single story commercial placekeeper.



The northern most unit seems to be leased, but I don't know who.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16455...ue-Chicago-IL/

At $60/sf/yr my guess is that they will be very pricey.

Paul K. Dickman
hey bud think that might have been more present, for you,, have not filled in, dates
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  #12714  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 10:26 PM
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Whole Foods to open store in Hyde Park

Whole Foods Market said Wednesday it plans to open a new store in Hyde Park in summer 2014, bringing its total number of stores in the city to seven.

The Hyde Park location will be a 30,000-square foot store at the southwest corner of Hyde Park Boulevard and South Lake Park Avenue. It will join two other retailers and two residential towers in a mixed-use building, the Austin, Tex.-based grocery chain said.
http://www.chicagobreakingbusiness.c...,5197754.story

This it the location of the old Pancake house and the Burger king...This is a really ugly strip mall and it's a block away from Harper court...Is this a separate project?
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  #12715  
Old Posted May 4, 2011, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lawfin View Post
Yeah I looked at that street scape last night. It does not strengthen your contention that this is pedestrian friendly.....clearly this entire strip is auto driven not pedestrian driven...

That area makes Peterson.....probably the least pedestrian street on the north side.....look like Champs Elysees
The Azusa store is an example of the design changes Target is willing to make in response to community pressure and local development guidelines.

The Peterson store is more or less a stock design; there's a very similar one at Keeler/95th in Oak Lawn, sans the pedestrian entrance.
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  #12716  
Old Posted May 5, 2011, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by migueltorres View Post
http://www.chicagobreakingbusiness.c...,5197754.story

This it the location of the old Pancake house and the Burger king...This is a really ugly strip mall and it's a block away from Harper court...Is this a separate project?
I believe this is the Studio Gang project for Antheus called Village Center

Great to hear the retail is being signed on already.
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  #12717  
Old Posted May 5, 2011, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I don't know what that link is supposed to show, but when I click on it I see what looks like a rail crossing in an industrial park. And I'm not being snarky, that's really what it looks like to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
The portico and plaza are pretty expansive, but I don't have a problem with that. Does every corner of Chicago have to be an arrow-straight monotonous 3-5 story commercial corridor in order to be considered "urban"? This entrance is certainly better and more grand than the undignified entrance to the Peterson Target, where pedestrians and motorists alike scuttle into the store from below like rats (to quote Vincent Scully).
It's not so much about being "urban," but about being pedestrian-friendly. Too many plazas, too many "grand entrances," too many parking lots can make it difficult for pedestrians to do their business. Those things more properly belong in civic and cultural centers, which is why you see them most often for places like city hall or museums, where the place holds a role in society that benefits from some additional grand emphasis.

Commercial areas that are being designed for pedestrian use should minimize the distance pedestrians need to travel to get into the selling space, and should be designed within some sort of standard so that people can quickly and easily identify where they are, where their destination should be in relation to their current place, and easily recognize the signage for their destination. There are ways to make it more pleasant along the way, but over-use of anything that disrupts the flow between services and daily uses detracts from pedestrian usability. The same principles should really be applied to car-oriented development, except at a larger scale, which is largely why it's very difficult to design places for both cars and people - because what's appropriate for each is of a dramatically different scale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
For a prominent intersection (Division/Larrabee) that is rapidly developing into a dense residential corridor, and may one day host a subway station, I'd like to see some kind of plaza space, to maintain some usable outdoor space as the rest of the neighborhood gets developed into residential buildings and green lawns-behind-fences.
If there's one thing that area currently does not lack, it's open space. While it's probably a good idea for the City to be preserving some land for a plaza if and when the area becomes built-up, it currently is not built-up and I certainly wouldn't encourage privately-owned plazas attached to commercial structures at this point. At this point we still need to try and pack as much density as possible into the area to help it recover from the destruction of Cabrini-Green and the mis-guided development that is the Dominick's center.
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  #12718  
Old Posted May 5, 2011, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PKDickman View Post
A single story commercial placekeeper.



The northern most unit seems to be leased, but I don't know who.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16455...ue-Chicago-IL/

At $60/sf/yr my guess is that they will be very pricey.

Paul K. Dickman
thanks for the research.
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  #12719  
Old Posted May 5, 2011, 5:56 PM
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Lol, I'm shocked when I find a working cta escalator. And that outdoor one at Columbus and Illinois seems to be turned off alot.
Agreed, it's been years since I've seen that one operating (spring, summer, winter or fall).
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  #12720  
Old Posted May 5, 2011, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
It's not so much about being "urban," but about being pedestrian-friendly. Too many plazas, too many "grand entrances," too many parking lots can make it difficult for pedestrians to do their business. Those things more properly belong in civic and cultural centers, which is why you see them most often for places like city hall or museums, where the place holds a role in society that benefits from some additional grand emphasis.
That entire area is incredibly prosaic; no, it's actually unpleasant. I'm not talking about the sketchy characters hanging around Cabrini-Green, either.

All of the redevelopment efforts for land in that area has given us the exact opposite of the tower-in-a-park, and the exact opposite is nearly as bad.

The modernist tower-in-a-park set aside the entire ground plane for public use; even the buildings usually had breezeways or common spaces on the ground floor. This produced a situation where all of the open space became uncared-for, because the city couldn't afford to keep it nice. Once the city stopped caring for it, there was no penalty for trashing it even further, because it didn't really belong to anybody and nobody would get upset.

The response to this gave us neighborhoods that sorta resemble a traditional Chicago neighborhood, but now the very idea of shared open space has been restricted to streets and a small handful of defined park spaces. Front yards, which traditionally softened the edge of the street, are now all fenced in with iron fences - every last one - making the street into a very uninviting place, like a cell block in a prison. The fences discourage loitering on the street and prevent the front yards from getting trashed, but they also kill any kind of spontaneous street life. There's no chance of striking up a chat with your neighbor, for example.

Chances are that the continuing redevelopment efforts at Cabrini will follow the pattern of the existing redevelopments, which means fairly low to moderate density and dead street life. With such low density, it won't take long at all before the area is filled up with boring jumbo-brick houses and 2-flats set behind 8-foot-high wrought-iron.

The best city neighborhoods strike a balance between the two extremes. There are multiple ways to do it, but one good way is to build buildings to the sidewalk and lot line as much as possible, but still provide small respite spaces - pocket parks and plazas - every few blocks on every street. Under this scenario, I don't see why some of these plazas can't be provided by a major retailer. If the retailer is going to occupy several acres' worth of valuable city land (more than an entire city block), then they can and should dedicate some of their land as well-designed open space that works in concert with the street and with the store.

Another way would be to allow the streets themselves to provide the needed respite (think the Parisian system of green boulevards and narrow sidestreets) but the ship already sailed on that one when the city decided to turn Division into a mile-wide asphalt river.
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Last edited by ardecila; May 5, 2011 at 6:48 PM.
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