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View Poll Results: Which of the following cities do you think could join the Big Canadian Cities Ranking
Barrie (ON) 8 6.50%
Kelowna (BC) 34 27.64%
Sudbury (ON) 2 1.63%
Kingston (ON) 8 6.50%
Saguenay (QC) 0 0%
Trois Rivieres (QC) 2 1.63%
Guelph (ON) 12 9.76%
Abbotsford-Mission (BC) 6 4.88%
Moncton (NB) 12 9.76%
Brantford (ON) 0 0%
Saint John (NB) 4 3.25%
Peterborough (ON) 1 0.81%
Thunder Bay (ON) 3 2.44%
Lethbridge (AB) 4 3.25%
Nanaimo (BC) 2 1.63%
Kamloops (BC) 1 0.81%
Belleville (ON) 1 0.81%
Chatham-Kent (ON) 1 0.81%
Fredericton (NB) 1 0.81%
Chilliwack (BC) 0 0%
Red Deer (AB) 12 9.76%
Cape Breton (NS) 0 0%
Sarnia (ON) 1 0.81%
Drummondville (QC) 2 1.63%
None of the Above (write in your candidate) 6 4.88%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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  #201  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2017, 12:53 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
The reasons they give are often hilarious. My personal favourite is "St. John's is basically an inland city, you can't even see the sea except through the Narrows. I need to be by the sea!" in Whitbourne? Gander? Grand Falls-Windsor? Deer Lake? Sure...

I think people just didn't put any thought into it. Government didn't consider our culture and heritage in allowing these communities to grow, and even encouraging it. And people thought moving the shortest distance represented the least sacrifice and compromise. But it really didn't. I can't understand how people don't get gradually dragged down into depression living in a place like Gander, when they came from, say Newtown. To go from walkable, extreme beauty to living in your car between a bungalow, big box centre, and work?
It is in vogue to crap on the suburbs, but there's got to be some appeal to them, otherwise why would they be so popular? Maybe people in the 21st century don't want to live in tiny, remote areas, despite all their natural beauty. Scenery is just that and it fades into the background noise after a bit.

I don't buy the 'people are stupid' angle either. I might not agree with with another person's choices, but I don't claim to be some super-genius who can manage everyone else's lifestyle choices to what I feel they should want. It is one of my pet peeves. People are competent and can make their choices like adults, even if I disagree with them.

I see why government kind of wants this concentration to happen - the cost and breadth of government services increased dramatically over the 20th century and providing it to a huge, sparsely populated hinterland is a challenge.
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  #202  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2017, 4:38 PM
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It's no secret there's a dystopian theme here no doubt

But the numbers don't lie, at least in places like Edmonton. Fastest growing communities by a wide margin are outside the ring road

I think those folks are probably too busy going about their daily lives to worry too much about what the urbanites think

We're in the mushy middle.. not totally suburban but far enough away from downtown that it's perfect for us
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  #203  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2017, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I guess it's to be expected because they are not very old, but Chilliwack and Abbotsford are extremely suburban and have unremarkable urban cores for how large and far away from metro Vancouver they are. They are not really within commuting distance (or at least I doubt that many people are commuting from Chilliwack) but they feel like bedroom communities of somewhere else.

Nanaimo could theoretically grow a lot too but like almost everywhere else in BC it's wedged in next to mountains and doesn't have much easily developed land. Even if it only doubled in size while remaining about as densely built up as it is now most of the arable land nearby would be gone.
They both have urban cores like I would expect from a city of 10,000, vs ones 10 times that size.

Funny note, the 'Historic Abbotsford' section of the Abbotsford Economic Development website has a banner of fake historic buildings

https://caed.abbotsford.ca/historic-abbotsford/
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  #204  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2017, 5:19 PM
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from my recollections, the de-facto commercial centre of Chilliwack moved from the downtown centred on Young and Yale Roads, to the banal big box barf lining Highway 1 (especially on the Sardis side, on Luckakuck). Same thing for Milton (401), and Kelowna (Harvey Ave/Highway 97). I am less familiar with Abbotsford.
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  #205  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 5:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim View Post
Trois-Riviere (aka Quebec's Red Deer) pop 150K.

Mark my words, one day they're finally going to build that high frequency train between montreal and Qquebec, and when they do T-R will boom.

T-R reminds me of a mini-montreal plucked in the quebec wilderness. It's got it's seaport, it's got a university and a downtown with an old rail-station just waiting to be re-activated and it's even got its own pre-war scraper.
I couldn't agree more (if the north shore corridor is preferred).
Moreover, Trois-Rivières' and Shawinigan's urban fabrics are only 4,5 km apart along the route 157 corridor, in Notre-Dame-du-Mont-Carmel (a community en sééénwiche between TR and Shawi that grows faster than any other in Mauricie). Shawinigan could quickly become Trois-Rivières's Magog (ex. Sherbrooke).



Also, another mid-sized city that could emerge faster than we think in QC is the Granby-Cowansville-Shefford-Waterloo area. Its fabric is quickly integrating. There are something like 85k (Granby-Bromont) + 11k (Waterloo-Shefford) + 17k (Cowansville-Brigham) people right there. Map same scale as TR.


Density per km2, census 2016, ilôts de diffusion. Maps by me.

Last edited by Laceoflight; Jul 21, 2017 at 6:00 AM.
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  #206  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 6:32 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I guess it's to be expected because they are not very old, but Chilliwack and Abbotsford are extremely suburban and have unremarkable urban cores for how large and far away from metro Vancouver they are. They are not really within commuting distance (or at least I doubt that many people are commuting from Chilliwack) but they feel like bedroom communities of somewhere else.

Nanaimo could theoretically grow a lot too but like almost everywhere else in BC it's wedged in next to mountains and doesn't have much easily developed land. Even if it only doubled in size while remaining about as densely built up as it is now most of the arable land nearby would be gone.
I will agree that they have unremarkable urban cores however they are not far from Metro Vancouver! Aldergrove is within the township of Langley and borders Abbotsford. I think you would be suprised with the amount of people living in Chilliwack or Abbotsford the commute to greater Vancouver. Also, the other way around.

I know of people whom commute to the city of Vancouver from Abbotsford.
There is a push to get a new fast ferry link between Nanaimo and Vancouver. Still lots of people commute from Nanaimo to Vancouver. Some take the ferry others take the sea plane until the new fast ferry is in service. One just open up between Victoria and Vancouver.

Even my father commuted for three years between Nanaimo and Vancouver on the Ferry.
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  #207  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
It might be worthwhile discussing the zeros (as currently not chosen) and the reasons for which they are not Candidates. They are, in order of listing (and my 2 cents in parentheses): Saguenay (too remote, zilch immigration), Brantford (might surprise us...it is geographically 'blessed')), Kamloops (really?I think it is a potential dark horse), Chilliwack (I am surprised: improved rail connections to Van would boost this city significantly) and Cape Breton (so sad, no chance).
Chilliwack is growing fast—faster than Abbotsford—but they are just extensions of the Vancouver area. Saying Chilliwack will become big is no different than saying that Milton or Okotoks will be big. It's pretty meaningless and ultimately uninteresting. As far as commuting goes, I can't find them now, but I do remember seeing that there is a fair bit of commuter movement between the Valley and the Metro. The vast majority of it is to Surrey and Langley of course. There are very large office parks there, it's not a crazy commute to go there and back from your house in Chilliwack. It's only an hour from Chilliwack to Surrey.

Kamloops definitely could do it and is probably just overshadowed by Kelowna in this poll. It's gorgeous, has a strong downtown and a decent university. However, it faces the same challenge that many other BC cities face: a lack of room to grow. You can only densify so much, especially in cities of that size.
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  #208  
Old Posted Today, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
Chilliwack is growing fast—faster than Abbotsford—but they are just extensions of the Vancouver area. Saying Chilliwack will become big is no different than saying that Milton or Okotoks will be big. It's pretty meaningless and ultimately uninteresting. As far as commuting goes, I can't find them now, but I do remember seeing that there is a fair bit of commuter movement between the Valley and the Metro. The vast majority of it is to Surrey and Langley of course. There are very large office parks there, it's not a crazy commute to go there and back from your house in Chilliwack. It's only an hour from Chilliwack to Surrey.

Kamloops definitely could do it and is probably just overshadowed by Kelowna in this poll. It's gorgeous, has a strong downtown and a decent university. However, it faces the same challenge that many other BC cities face: a lack of room to grow. You can only densify so much, especially in cities of that size.
Where is there room to grow in B.C., Vancouver Island perhaps? Maybe we need to annex part of Washington, or reclaim more land from the sea.
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  #209  
Old Posted Today, 1:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Where is there room to grow in B.C., Vancouver Island perhaps? Maybe we need to annex part of Washington, or reclaim more land from the sea.
The Peace Region.
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  #210  
Old Posted Today, 6:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Where is there room to grow in B.C., Vancouver Island perhaps? Maybe we need to annex part of Washington, or reclaim more land from the sea.
It's complicated by the Agricultural Land Reserve. Even cities with a fair bit more flat land don't have much room to grow as the rest of it is protected farmland. Though of course, the ALR is a law that could just be taken away one day.

Ignoring the ALR, Victoria and Vancouver both have a LOT of flat land. Much of east coast Vancouver Island does as well.

Again ignoring it, In the Kootenays (southeast BC) Creston and to a lesser extent Cranbrook are the only cites with a sizeable amount of flat land.

Kelowna still has a lot of flat land, but I believe just about all of it at this point is ALR. Everything else has been pretty much developed. Mountain hills are the only places with sprawl now.

Prince George has a lot of flat land too, probably the most of any city other than Vancouver, not sure how much of it is in the ALR though.

But yeah, the Peace Region as a region is the flattest part of BC as it's east of the Rockies and into the Prairie plains. The two "big" towns there are Fort St. John and Dawson Creek which have essentially endless room to expand as the Peace Region is massive. Again though, the ALR likely comes into play eventually.

A lot of our promising towns are hemmed in by mountains though. Kamloops comes to mind, as does most of the Okanagan region, as well as Prince Rupert. And since our mountains go way up north, Whitehorse is the same. I feel it does have potential (once other northern cities grow and make it less isolated), but there's very little developable land there.

I'm sure we'll find ways around the mountain problem at some point (hopefully not ALR removal) but it is definitely a challenge.
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