Dead Malls of Canada

[O-tacular]

Here’s another tour of it:

• Video Link

And an even better one:

• Video Link

[O-tacular]

An interesting take on why many malls are dying:

• Video Link

[acottawa]

In Ottawa the only ones that seem to be struggling are the really small ones, particularly if their only anchor was a Sears or Target. The larger ones seem to be doing fine, whether upscale or not. I think probably the weather plays a big role.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Here’s another tour of it:

YOUTUBE]JEt9n8BSRro[/YOUTUBE]

And an even better one:

YOUTUBE]xc_nPIGt8vM[/YOUTUBE

Those videos are a few months old now.

Here is an interactive map.

https://newhorizonmall.com/interactive-map/#/

Quite a few more stores now, long way to go though.

[EspionNoir]

I don’t think any malls in Winnipeg are actually dying, but there’s a hated one: Portage Place. People really want it to be well-renovated or entirely demolished to make place for something good

[itom 987]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Here’s another tour of it:

• Video Link

And an even better one:

• Video Link

Only two words need to be said about that mall for the concept to work: Flea Market

Aside from that, the location is the worst kind of location for a flea market.

FUBAR

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

Those videos are a few months old now.

Here is an interactive map.

https://newhorizonmall.com/interactive-map/#/

Quite a few more stores now, long way to go though.

Thanks for the link to the map. As I suspected the tenants aren’t anything to make me want to drive out to the middle of nowhere to see. Cellphone shops, ice cream stands, tea vendor, florist, nail salons and a perfume shop. One of the double bay ‘tenants’ is a leasing stand for the mall. I’ll be shocked if most of these stores are around in a year. I suspect most of their customers will be other bored vendors.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by itom 987

Only two words need to be said about that mall for the concept to work: Flea Market

Aside from that, the location is the worst kind of location for a flea market.

FUBAR

Yes it’s a modern flea market. Marketed as a get rich quick scheme to wide eyed investors who are mostly immigrants.

[ssiguy]

That video about why malls are dying is quite interesting and brings up a lot of interesting points but it also totally neglects others.

First, it doesn`t explain why malls are dying but big box stores are still growing. This of course has a lot to do with with the higher rents/leases being applied for a mall as it`s overhead is much higher. This is why high end malls are still doing well as the shoppers are far less price sensitive.

Second, the video also doesn`t explain one of the primary reasons for many malls decline...........demographics. Many of the these malls were built in the 1970s and greatly expanded in the 80s. The area chosen had to do with, in large part, demographics. They choose the location due to an expanding population in the the suburban young families areas which of course makes sense. The problem however is that demographics naturally change. Those fast growing areas with young families of 6 people in the household have become slow growing areas of 2 or 3 people who are much older. Malls rely on discretionary spenders like young people who want the latest fad or fashion unlike their grandparents.

Third, changing shopping preferences. Buying on-line is easy. Doing it in person is much slower but big box stores are still much quicker to shop at than negotiating your way thru ahuge mall and dozens of storesof which you have no idea where they are located. Also Millenialls are returning to more downtown/urban shopping to get away from the banality of malls which have the exact same stores from coast to coast. When they have time to shop they want interesting niche stores in a more pedestrian friendly urbane enviornment which no mall offers.


Fourth, falling incomes. Except for some basics like a large grocery store and pharmacy, malls rely on foot traffic for smaller discretionary spending shoppers the largest group of whome are under 30. These suburban areas 40 years ago benefitted from the discretionary spending of our most well endowed generation...........Baby Boomers. it was the wealthiest generation ever known and there is no sugar coating it, Gen Xers and Millenials are far poorer, have a far lower discretionary spending power, work in far less stable enviornments, all while being much more indebted.

[acottawa]

I am not sure big boxes are growing anymore. Maybe at the very edge of the suburbs, but there has been a fair bit of consolidation and contraction in that sector.

[MolsonExport]

Bigboxbarfmanship is continuing at full speed ahead here in London, Ontario, where they are rushing to pave paradise to put up a thousand parking lots; each farther from the centre of the city than the one before. There is some densification downtown (sadly, nothing by way of retail) so we are getting a thimble of infill downtown (residential condos...quite a few going up now), then wasteland, then blahburbs, and then the exurbs with the bigboxbarf expanding outwards like some horrible big bang of miltonization.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

An interesting take on why many malls are dying:

• Video Link

despite the corny voice/graphics, it provides a good synopsis of the situation facing bricks-and-mortar retail.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Thanks for the link to the map. As I suspected the tenants aren’t anything to make me want to drive out to the middle of nowhere to see. Cellphone shops, ice cream stands, tea vendor, florist, nail salons and a perfume shop. One of the double bay ‘tenants’ is a leasing stand for the mall. I’ll be shocked if most of these stores are around in a year. I suspect most of their customers will be other bored vendors.

Those are the kind of stores this place will have though. Its basically an Asian night market in a mall. Its a weird location but Cross Iron is next door and always busy.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

Those are the kind of stores this place will have though. Its basically an Asian night market in a mall. Its a weird location but Cross Iron is next door and always busy.

The difference is that CrossIron attracts shoppers with outlet stores offering discounts on major brands. New Horizon will likely just offer overpriced trinkets you can already find in every other mall.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am not sure big boxes are growing anymore. Maybe at the very edge of the suburbs, but there has been a fair bit of consolidation and contraction in that sector.

I think you're right. The only places it seems big box is growing is in brand-new areas and even then, it seems newer areas end up with fewer big box stores per capita than older suburbs did.

[Ottawaresident]

In Ottawa Walmart which is the famous box store is growing rampantly here. Since 2010 there have been like 5 new Walmarts. The malls are doing quite well except for a few tiny ones whose anchor was Sears or Zellers or Target.

[MacaronOwl]

anyone here been to Westmount Mall in London? It's become my favourite place to chill, since its the most convenient place for me to go to. that, and Gallaria in downtown is too dead for me, lol. it gives me more of an office vibe tbh

[Innsertnamehere]

I really don't believe believe the bunk that baby boomers are wealthier than gen x and millenials. Well, they are wealthier, but they've are older too. I think that millenials and gen x are wealthier than they were at the same age.

The world is a different place place than was in 1970 too though - not everyone has that nice idyllic suburban house for an affordable price any more - but mind you most millenials don't want it. Real estate is more expensive - but also generally much larger and higher quality than it was 50 years ago.

Don't get me started on people's disposable incomes. The kind of stuff a lot of millenials buy would be almost unheard of for boomers at that age.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I really don't believe believe the bunk that baby boomers are wealthier than gen x and millenials. Well, they are wealthier, but they've are older too. I think that millenials and gen x are wealthier than they were at the same age.

The world is a different place place than was in 1970 too though - not everyone has that nice idyllic suburban house for an affordable price any more - but mind you most millenials don't want it. Real estate is more expensive - but also generally much larger and higher quality than it was 50 years ago.

Don't get me started on people's disposable incomes. The kind of stuff a lot of millenials buy would be almost unheard of for boomers at that age.

I'll disagree on some points.

Obviously, a baby boomer is wealthier than their Gen X/Millennial counterpart. They've had a lifetime to accumulate assets. They've also benefited from the disproportionate rise in home prices over the last 15 years and they have maximum equity in the homes as a group. Someone who got into real estate in the 1980s/90s has nearly or completely paid off their home by now (hopefully), while the value of their home has risen beyond the general rate of inflation due to low interest rates. Chances are, their education was much cheaper than one obtained today.

A millennial may appear to be wealthy, but I suspect the average millennial carries a larger proportion of debt than a Baby Boomer at the same age. Education costs that have risen higher than the rate of inflation and the average millennial is more likely to have attended post-secondary than their Baby Boom counterpart. Home prices have done the same. Lower interest rates than in the era of the Baby Boom/Gen X have mitigated the effect of larger debt loads.

During the era of the Boomers, access to credit was difficult compared to today. Today, it is almost criminally easy to get deep into debt. That can give the illusion of wealth. The young people with the fancy house, nice Mercedes and who take a sun vacation every year aren't wealthy - they're up to their eyeballs in debt. It's the unassuming people - drive an older vehicle, have a smaller home, don't flaunt their wealth that are truly wealthy.

[Innsertnamehere]

Not disagreeing - but school isn't really that expensive in Canada, even today.

Comparing myself (millenial) with my parents (early gen x), I'm a a lot wealthier than they were at my age. Me and my fiancée are on relatively similar career paths to them too.

Yes there are obvious differences due to different eras, but I truly believe millenials are wealthier than any other generation.

Credit is easy to get, but people have more money too. A lot more. Most millenials I know take regular vacations, save appropriately, and live a pretty average life. Without going into debt. The kind of stuff they buy and the lifestyle they lead is a lot wealthier than the one that boomers led at that age.