Dead Malls of Canada

[wave46]

Some malls will survive and probably do quite well, depending on the clientele they serve. I'd imagine something like Yorkdale Mall in Toronto will be fine.

Some of the businesses in Power Centres I wonder about. Grocery stores, Home Depot, Costco and Wal-Mart will always be draws. Indeed, one-stop shopping used to be a mall thing, but now resides within something like Wal-Mart or Superstore. Why truck between multiple stores in the same mall when one place will do it all?

It's the weird smaller businesses (Ardene, Michael's, etc. etc.) in these Power Centres I wonder about. They aren't really draws by themselves. They're a pain to get to. A mall environment kind of suits them better, but a lot of these businesses have doubled down on the Power Centre thing.

Anyway, I'm not a shopper. 'Retail therapy' is more like 'retail agony' to me. I'd like to think the decline of malls is a result of focusing more on what matters in life as opposed to blind consumption, but I think it's just a shift in preferences, not a change in lifestyle.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by esquire

Ironic given that a lot of the regional malls spent most of the last 30 years getting rid of grocery store anchors.

Ironically Metropolis at Metrotown in Burnaby has three anchors that sell groceries - Real Canadian Superstore, T&T Supermarket, and Walmart (just opened in 2018 in a former Target space). And there’s a Save-on-Foods across the street. That Superstore is the craziest, most packed grocery store I’ve been to in the world. I can’t even imagine the lineups right now with Coronavirus.

In London there’s still a few malls with national grocery store anchors - Metro at Cherryhill Village Mall, Food Basics at both Sherwood Forest Mall and Oxbury Mall...and I think that’s it. In Toronto there’s still at least one Loblaws in a mall - Bayview Village.

What’s the deal with Save-on-Foods anyways? The name sounds like a discount retailer, but it’s far from that - probably the most expensive of the grocery chains in BC, not unlike Metro in Ontario. (Their customer service is also among the best in the industry, IMO)

[esquire]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

What’s the deal with Save-on-Foods anyways? The name sounds like a discount retailer, but it’s far from that - probably the most expensive of the grocery chains in BC, not unlike Metro in Ontario. (Their customer service is also among the best in the industry, IMO)

Yeah, Save-On is probably the most expensive mainstream chain. I'm not a fan, there isn't much I can find in there that I can't get for less at some other place. Even places with similar customer service standards like Safeway/Sobeys are less expensive.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by esquire

The mall developers must have had their doubts, because it felt like they spent a good chunk of the 90s and 00s getting rid of the supermarkets that were still in major malls. It's only lately, since the department stores all started dying off, that they've had a change of heart.

It was about yield. Grocers couldn't/wouldn't pay the rents that other mall anchor tenants would. And they generated more traffic tieing up more of the lot. So a lower yielding client for the mall owner overall. Now that retail is dying, that traffic and those rents look very attractive. I'll go so far as to say that any mall not having a grocery store is probably toast in the next 5 years. The only exception may be the absolute highest tier malls in each city.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by wave46

It's the weird smaller businesses (Ardene, Michael's, etc. etc.) in these Power Centres I wonder about. They aren't really draws by themselves. They're a pain to get to. A mall environment kind of suits them better, but a lot of these businesses have doubled down on the Power Centre thing.

The smaller chains I see in power centres as a set of failures. First is the failure of mall owner to adapt their business models to enable these stores to be based in their malls. And next the inability of these businesses to adapt to the online world. Moving to a power centre is a cost-cutting move. But it doesn't grow traffic.

I think they've doubled down on power centres because of cheaper rents. Customers for these stores are inbound now, not incidental. They are driving to said store with a purpose. Not walking through the mall and stopping in. That works until some online business disrupts them.

Originally Posted by wave46

Anyway, I'm not a shopper. 'Retail therapy' is more like 'retail agony' to me. I'd like to think the decline of malls is a result of focusing more on what matters in life as opposed to blind consumption, but I think it's just a shift in preferences, not a change in lifestyle.

I disagree that it is some change in values. There's an element of that (millennials save more, drink less, eat out less, etc.). But by and large, most of the change can be attributed to more indebted consumers having less to spend. Higher income inequality means fewer shoppers in the malls, while high end retail is booming.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by stevanford1

Speaking of Oakville, Oakville Place is also dead as hell!

As malls go, Oakville Place looks pretty decent.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I always sort of wondered about the logic of supermarkets as anchors, though. My local regional mall, St. Vital Centre, is probably one of the only malls left in Canada where Walmart is still part of the mall in the location it took over from Woolco. When I go grocery shopping there, I never, ever visit the rest of the mall... it might as well not exist to me.

I get that habits vary, but I have a hard time imagining that a lot of people go through the mall, buy a bunch of clothes and shoes and whatever, and then lug that stuff over to the supermarket where they drop $200 on groceries right after that.

The biggest mall in Gatineau (and one of the biggest in Canada's capital region), Les Promenades Gatineau, is actually anchored by a Costco.

Costco arguably saved Les Promenades from dead mall status as it took up a former Eatons space that had been either vacant or crappily occupied for years.

Once Costco came in, it started a chain of events that rejuvenated the entire mall.

One thing that Costco did (not sure if anyone had thought of this) is that it put Les Promenades on the radar of most Ottawans, whereas it was largely ignored before.

That's because Costco sells beer and wine in Quebec but not in Ontario. Les Promenades is 5-7 km from downtown Ottawa depending on the road you take.

They say the Gatineau Costco is the single biggest beer sales location in Canada.

And of course now that it's been spruced up, lots of Ottawans take notice that there is a decent mall attached to the Cheap Beer Costco.

Some of them probably come back to shop. Or mix in a bit of shopping with their Costco excursion.

But me, I am the same as you. I live 5 minutes away, so Costco and the rest of the mall are two separate entities to me most of the time. I either go to one or the other.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, Save-On is probably the most expensive mainstream chain. I'm not a fan, there isn't much I can find in there that I can't get for less at some other place. Even places with similar customer service standards like Safeway/Sobeys are less expensive.

Do they still have Overwaitea? Sister chain of Save-On?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Do they still have Overwaitea? Sister chain of Save-On?

I always wondered what was behind the name of that store. Is it a surname of Origin X?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Do they still have Overwaitea? Sister chain of Save-On?

Not in Manitoba (Save-On only arrived here in the last 5 years), but I believe they still do in BC.

EDIT: I checked, and it appears that the last two Overwaiteas became Save-Ons about two years ago.

[stevanford1]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Do they still have Overwaitea? Sister chain of Save-On?

There are a couple of ones scattered across BC.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/o.../data=!3m1!4b1

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I always wondered what was behind the name of that store. Is it a surname of Origin X?

I believe it is an old snake-oil pitch:
Over-weight-tea.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I

In London there’s still a few malls with national grocery store anchors - Metro at Cherryhill Village Mall, Food Basics at both Sherwood Forest Mall and Oxbury Mall...and I think that’s it. In Toronto there’s still at least one Loblaws in a mall - Bayview Village. IMO)

Cherry Hill is one of those malls that will be still around 50 years ago. Outside of some cosmetic changes, it is basically the exact same mall as it was when it was built in the early 70s. it is surrounded by a very close plethora of apt towers most of whom are occupied by either retirees or students.......they don't have cars. Added to this is that the mall never expanded so it doesn't have the excess of huge space that plagues places like Westmount.

It was never a regional mall but rather a very local one that basically was designed exclusively for it's own little niche community and due to this it has had staying power.

[stevanford1]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Ironically Metropolis at Metrotown in Burnaby has three anchors that sell groceries - Real Canadian Superstore, T&T Supermarket, and Walmart (just opened in 2018 in a former Target space). And there’s a Save-on-Foods across the street. That Superstore is the craziest, most packed grocery store I’ve been to in the world. I can’t even imagine the lineups right now with Coronavirus.

In London there’s still a few malls with national grocery store anchors - Metro at Cherryhill Village Mall, Food Basics at both Sherwood Forest Mall and Oxbury Mall...and I think that’s it. In Toronto there’s still at least one Loblaws in a mall - Bayview Village.

What’s the deal with Save-on-Foods anyways? The name sounds like a discount retailer, but it’s far from that - probably the most expensive of the grocery chains in BC, not unlike Metro in Ontario. (Their customer service is also among the best in the industry, IMO)

Off the top of my head, some malls anchored by Grocery Stores.

Hopedale Mall: Metro (and a very large Shoppers that might as well be an anchor!)
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4113...7i16384!8i8192

Cloverdale: Also Metro
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6300...7i13312!8i6656

[Taeolas]

Regent Mall in Fredericton was originally anchored by a Save-Easy until Superstore moved the grocery store elsewhere. It is currently anchored by a Walmart that has a small mall access hallway. The mall is doing quite well in any case.

Fredericton Mall, now Uptown Centre, has always had Sobeys as an anchor, and a Zellers for a long time. It transitioned to a Powerblock mall (no inside halls) when it changed its name years ago. Technically the new Sobeys is no longer attached to it, but it is still basically anchored by it.

Brookside Mall on the other hand, has also always had a Sobeys (and a Zellers for a long time). But unlike the other malls, it's been a classic "dead mall" example for years. Still, it is holding on, and Hart took over some of the Zellers space now, so it is mostly 'full' now, but it did lose a call-centre anchor as well.


Down in Moncton, Champlain Place for years has had Sobeys anchoring one end of the mall, and Walmart anchoring another end, with full mall access from both anchors. It's doing well enough, especially since TD moved their corporate offices into the old Sears space.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I always sort of wondered about the logic of supermarkets as anchors, though. My local regional mall, St. Vital Centre, is probably one of the only malls left in Canada where Walmart is still part of the mall in the location it took over from Woolco. When I go grocery shopping there, I never, ever visit the rest of the mall... it might as well not exist to me.

I get that habits vary, but I have a hard time imagining that a lot of people go through the mall, buy a bunch of clothes and shoes and whatever, and then lug that stuff over to the supermarket where they drop $200 on groceries right after that.

Grocery stores are fairly common in Ottawa malls.

Other than the Costco at Les Promenades mentioned by Acajack, Bayshore Shopping Centre in west end Ottawa has a Walmart. This particular location in the mall has seen a revolving door of anchors over the years, from Les Ailes de la Mode, to Zellers, then Target and finally after years of vacancy, Walmart took over, replacing a location in another mall closer to Downtown (Lincoln Fields, now demolished for redevelopment, though some of its other anchors (Metro grocery store and Rexall Pharmacy) have been relocated as stand alones on the site).

Gloucester Centre in the east end, a fairly small mall, has Loblaws and Walmart.

Carlingwood in the west end, not far from Lincoln Fields, also has a Loblaws. One of the deader malls in the region, the old Sears has been demolished and they are now building a new Canadian Tire in its place, which should have an interesting effect.

Downtown's Rideau Centre opened a Farm Boy (fresh fruits and veggies, meals-to-go) across the hall from one of Rideau Station's entrances.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Grocery stores are fairly common in Ottawa malls.

St-Laurent says hi.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Cherry Hill is one of those malls that will be still around 50 years ago. Outside of some cosmetic changes, it is basically the exact same mall as it was when it was built in the early 70s. it is surrounded by a very close plethora of apt towers most of whom are occupied by either retirees or students.......they don't have cars. Added to this is that the mall never expanded so it doesn't have the excess of huge space that plagues places like Westmount.

It was never a regional mall but rather a very local one that basically was designed exclusively for it's own little niche community and due to this it has had staying power.

Agreed about cherryhill village mall. It will live on longer than its clientele (mostly people in their 70s-90s). Sherwood Forest Mall is even smaller, but has nearly no vacant spaces inside the malled-in area and outside on the plaza area. It is geographically convenient, without any sizeable competing retail for 2 kms in any direction.
The interior of the mall is straight out of the 70s (mall-brown).


yelp

The mall thrives also due its retail mixture, which means it is very good for killing two birds with one stone:


shopping-canada

[stevanford1]

What about Jackson Square? One of the most depressing mall's I have ever been in!


It and City-Centre (at this point a glorified office building) are goners imo!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

St-Laurent says hi.

Yup. It has a long history of hosting grocery stores (Dominion, then Market Fresh), but none left. I guess it's one of the few malls without, other than Place d'Orléans (which does have a Farm Boy in its parking lot).