Greatest City Rivalries? How do they start? Why do they continue?

[Buckeye Native 001]

There isn't an OH vs MO because Cincinnati doesn't even consider itself part of the rest of Ohio. It's Cincinnati fighting battles (mostly involving sports) with other cities and regions (including those within the boundaries of the Buckeye State) because they're (*we're?) assholes with nothing better to do other than satiating a massive inferiority complex.

St. Louis was the up-and-coming River City that, along with Memphis and maybe-but-not-really New Orleans (hell, pretty much any large port city along the Mississippi) stole Cincinnati's thunder as the premier boomtown River City of the mid 19th Century. And then rail came to Chicago and fucked us all over because that's what Chicago does best.

Long story short, I had a batshit crazy third grade history teacher.

*Disclaimer: Born and raised in Cincinnati

[The Chemist]

I have to say I'm surprised that this thread has been open so long without anyone mentioning the Battle of Alberta, which certainly extends outside of the hockey / football realm into issues of politics and economy.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ I wonder if having two entire large seperate states that can often be universes unto themselves (IL & IN) dilutes the cincy vs. STL thing.

Part of the reason that chicago vs. STL works so well is that it's also strengthened by IL vs. MO, but I'm not aware of any larger OH vs. MO thing.

i wasnt aware of an illinois vs mo thing much anymore, certainly not down here. not like mo vs ks on the west side of the state.

they've tried to do that with illini vs mizzou games here i guess. problem is that southern illnois is sort of within st. louis hinterland/ “territory” w/ cardinals, banking, grocery chains, etc...it would work well to hack that part of illinois off for a new state centered on st. louis, and cleave off central/western mo...

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

There isn't an OH vs MO because Cincinnati doesn't even consider itself part of the rest of Ohio. It's Cincinnati fighting battles (mostly involving sports) with other cities and regions (including those within the boundaries of the Buckeye State) because they're (*we're?) assholes with nothing better to do other than satiating a massive inferiority complex.

St. Louis was the up-and-coming River City that, along with Memphis and maybe-but-not-really New Orleans (hell, pretty much any large port city along the Mississippi) stole Cincinnati's thunder as the premier boomtown River City of the mid 19th Century. And then rail came to Chicago and fucked us all over because that's what Chicago does best.

Long story short, I had a batshit crazy third grade history teacher.

*Disclaimer: Born and raised in Cincinnati

st. louis is the same, doesnt 100% consider itself in missouri and is as much of a city-state as you can get in the us (except dc), like cincy.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i wasnt aware of an illinois vs mo thing much anymore, certainly not down here. not like mo vs ks on the west side of the state.

they've tried to do that with illini vs mizzou games here i guess. problem is that southern illnois is sort of within st. louis hinterland/ “territory” w/ cardinals, banking, grocery chains, etc...it would work well to hack that part of illinois off for a new state centered on st. louis, and cleave off central/western mo...

i wasn't talking college sports, more of a jefferson city vs. springfield thing when it comes to issues that require cooperation between the two state governements.

i've heard frustration expressed more than once on this forum from st. louisians who feel like the metro east is entirely disregarded by chicago-dominated springfield.

[Centropolis]

certainly, at the nuts and bolts of state government level. seems like everytime a bridge is proposed acrosss the mississippi missouri wants illinois to pay for most of it. theres not deep anomosity down here with the illinois side, which is what i was getting at. there is real friction, though, on the mo/ks border, and i guess in some ways on your end at the wisco frontier. down here we all root for (most?) of the same teams or whatever, and are friends with the illinoisans. (this was all once called the illinois country along the mississippi).

[Xing]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i wasnt aware of an illinois vs mo thing much anymore, certainly not down here. not like mo vs ks on the west side of the state.

Certainly with politics. Did you forget about the new Mississippi River bridge? Missouri wanted the naming rights, but didn’t want to pay for it? Lol! Are you serious? Illinois still paid more money for it , for a bridge that will greatly benefit One of Missouri’s biggest cities.

Now, don’t get me started on this whole Illinois drivers discussion. The slowest drivers in the country think Illinois drivers are bad? Pfft...

[Cirrus]

Hm... Washingtonians are generally not very aware that other cities exist, except New York, which everyone is jealous of for being superior, but also angry at for the Times' never-ending trope of "look something new opened in DC and now they are a cultured city" articles. "XYZ is sooooo much better in New York" is a joke/cliche.

Besides that, people are vaguely aware that Baltimore exists, in the same sense that they're aware Fairfax County and Sao Paulo exist. But nobody thinks about it very much. Baltimoreans who come here when people invite them to parties seem to have an inferiority complex, which we ignore because nobody's really sure whether those cheap cheap prices are worth it (maybe? I mean DC's not New York; how much different could Baltimore be?)

Everyone knows there is a hockey rivalry with Pittsburgh, and in the mythic past when the Redskins were not a garbage fire there was a football rivalry with Dallas, but it doesn't extend to the cities because did you know they're not even on the train line to New York?

Oh and we are aware that Philadelphia exists because it's the place the train stops in-between Baltimore and New York, and because every once in a while someone will say their parents live there. But there's no rivalry.

[Shawn]

Boston vs. New York is sports-only, same with Boston vs. Montreal. Otherwise, Bostonians generally like New York and love Montreal, and from what I gather the feelings are mutual. New Englanders are overall quite French Canadian-friendly.

There is also a general sense that Boston doesn't do enough to keep all the talent it trains from setting up shop in Santa Clara County, but this doesn't translate into a Boston-San Francisco rivalry. It's more of a mutually-beneficial competition between opposite coast mirror images.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by Xing

Certainly with politics. Did you forget about the new Mississippi River bridge? Missouri wanted the naming rights, but didn’t want to pay for it? Lol! Are you serious? Illinois still paid more money for it , for a bridge that will greatly benefit One of Missouri’s biggest cities.

Now, don’t get me started on this whole Illinois drivers discussion. The slowest drivers in the country think Illinois drivers are bad? Pfft...

At least IL and MO got a bridge built?

KY and OH are still arguing over who will pony up the money needed to replace the Brent Spence Bridge and even if/when it dumps rush hour commuters into the Ohio after a massive structural failure, both states will continue to argue about the costs of a replacement (fwiw, Kentucky owns about 3/4 of the rights to the Ohio River).

That said, Kentucky does have better views of the Cincinnati skyline, including one on northbound 71/75 that is barely a step below driving through the Fort Pitt Tunnel heading into Pittsburgh.

In an unrelated tangent, Ohio drivers are awful, but I don't blame them for not daring to go five miles an hour above the speed limit when there's a state trooper parked at seemingly every damn mile marker across the state.

[Jaborandi]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

I have to say I'm surprised that this thread has been open so long without anyone mentioning the Battle of Alberta, which certainly extends outside of the hockey / football realm into issues of politics and economy.

Albertans are so quiet and modest that one hardly knows they are around.

[lzppjb]

Dallas vs. Houston is one I witness constantly. It likely stems from sports.

Cowboys - Oilers/Texans (Houston will always be 2nd fiddle in football)
Rangers - Astros (Houston finally gained the upper hand this year in baseball)
Mavericks - Rockets (Houston has the upper hand in basketball titles 2-1)

Those folks get in some heated fights on another forum I frequent.

Me personally, I have a few rival cities based on sports. Even though I'm from Austin, all my favorite teams are from DFW (except for basketball - I like the Spurs).

Football: Philly, NY, DC and used to be SF
Baseball: Seattle, Anaheim, Houston
Basketball: Houston, Dallas

Austin (UT): Norman, OK & College Station, TX

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

I have to say I'm surprised that this thread has been open so long without anyone mentioning the Battle of Alberta, which certainly extends outside of the hockey / football realm into issues of politics and economy.

"Battle of Alberta"? would that be Calgary vs. Edmonton? Do Edmontonians feel superior, or is it the other way around? I guess "Cal" has the business hqs, especially oil, more people plus the stampede, while "Ed" has the government and a giant indoor mall.

Speaking of Canada, is there a big Regina vs. Saskatoon rivalry? How about Winnie--does Winnepeg look across the border to Fargo (far smaller) or much bigger Minnie/St.Paul for a rival? Or maybe being unquestioned #1 in Manitoba is sufficient. Everyone knows about Toronto vs. Montreal, but is there an intra-Quebec Montreal vs. Quebec City rivalry, or does everybody concede that Montreal is the metropolis of Quebec?

Minneapolis-St. Paul...too close to be rivals? Can cities in the same metroplex be true rivals? I always question the Dallas-Ft. Worth "rivalry". They really complement eachother, and Dallas being much bigger sort of gives it the #1 rank. Same with L.A. & Long Beach, S.F. & Oakland. San Jose & S.F. is more difficult...but they are different enough to be almost on different planets plus everyone concedes S.F. the beauty crown except maybe Seattle.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Xing

Certainly with politics. Did you forget about the new Mississippi River bridge? Missouri wanted the naming rights, but didn’t want to pay for it? Lol! Are you serious? Illinois still paid more money for it , for a bridge that will greatly benefit One of Missouri’s biggest cities

i specifically mentioned that exact situation above in the post right before yours!

1/3 of my office lives in illinois. there is essentially no even good natured ribbing back and forth, no friction. theres people that live in st. charles who don’t get why people live east of the missouri and central corridor snobs like me who think living anywhere other than a couple miles from forest park is unliveable but people arent bashing each other based on state boundaries (arguably an invisible one at the st chas/st louis co line). i guess we bash each other based on other geographic critera.

that is 100% not the case in my kc office. and i’ve had the silly FIB conversation about every time i work with someone out of milwaukee.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

"Battle of Alberta"? would that be Calgary vs. Edmonton? Do Edmontonians feel superior, or is it the other way around? I guess "Cal" has the business hqs, especially oil, more people plus the stampede, while "Ed" has the government and a giant indoor mall.

Speaking of Canada, is there a big Regina vs. Saskatoon rivalry? How about Winnie--does Winnepeg look across the border to Fargo (far smaller) or much bigger Minnie/St.Paul for a rival? Or maybe being unquestioned #1 in Manitoba is sufficient. Everyone knows about Toronto vs. Montreal, but is there an intra-Quebec Montreal vs. Quebec City rivalry, or does everybody concede that Montreal is the metropolis of Quebec?

Minneapolis-St. Paul...too close to be rivals? Can cities in the same metroplex be true rivals? I always question the Dallas-Ft. Worth "rivalry". They really complement eachother, and Dallas being much bigger sort of gives it the #1 rank. Same with L.A. & Long Beach, S.F. & Oakland. San Jose & S.F. is more difficult...but they are different enough to be almost on different planets plus everyone concedes S.F. the beauty crown except maybe Seattle.

I don't get the sense that Winnipeg has any cities it considers to be rivals, for the reasons you mentioned. There aren't any similarly sized cities anywhere close by, and it's the undisputed city of Manitoba (the next biggest city, Brandon, has a population of 60,000). However, it does seem to me like it looks up to the big Alberta cities, as they're larger, but still comparably sized cities in the same region of the Prairies.

For Vancouver, I'd probably have to say Toronto, though I suspect this is very much one-sided. Seattle is in a different country and so we're not in competition for anything really. Same with Portland. They're very much considered peer cities, though I do think most Vancouverites would consider Seattle to be more successful than us, while also thinking that Vancouver's above Portland. But Toronto's different. It's the other major English-speaking city and given its success in the business and pop culture world lately it's hard to ignore. It's the other major filming city in Canada, and it's where a lot of people move. Also, don't know how Torontonians feel, but when the Canucks play the Leafs it's a pretty big deal. Online banter gets pretty good, and it's probably the one Canadian team I'd have second thoughts about whether or not I want them to win the cup.

[Xing]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i specifically mentioned that exact situation above in the post right before yours!

1/3 of my office lives in illinois. there is essentially no even good natured ribbing back and forth, no friction. theres people that live in st. charles who don’t get why people live east of the missouri and central corridor snobs like me who think living anywhere other than a couple miles from forest park is unliveable but people arent bashing each other based on state boundaries (arguably an invisible one at the st chas/st louis co line). i guess we bash each other based on other geographic critera.

that is 100% not the case in my kc office. and i’ve had the silly FIB conversation about every time i work with someone out of milwaukee.

Oh that’s good to hear. I do know there is some good hearted Missouri bashing in my household , but certainly no St Louis bashing. I have no issue with Missouri’s big cities, but the state of Missouri grinds my gears... lol.

[Jaborandi]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't get the sense that Winnipeg has any cities it considers to be rivals, for the reasons you mentioned. There aren't any similarly sized cities anywhere close by, and it's the undisputed city of Manitoba (the next biggest city, Brandon, has a population of 60,000). However, it does seem to me like it looks up to the big Alberta cities, as they're larger, but still comparably sized cities in the same region of the Prairies.

For Vancouver, I'd probably have to say Toronto, though I suspect this is very much one-sided. Seattle is in a different country and so we're not in competition for anything really. Same with Portland. They're very much considered peer cities, though I do think most Vancouverites would consider Seattle to be more successful than us, while also thinking that Vancouver's above Portland. But Toronto's different. It's the other major English-speaking city and given its success in the business and pop culture world lately it's hard to ignore. It's the other major filming city in Canada, and it's where a lot of people move. Also, don't know how Torontonians feel, but when the Canucks play the Leafs it's a pretty big deal. Online banter gets pretty good, and it's probably the one Canadian team I'd have second thoughts about whether or not I want them to win the cup.

I've always thought that there is a bit of rivalry between Winnipeg and Hamilton, especially when it comes to size. They both tumbled in sync with the ascendency of Ottawa, Calgary & Edmonton. Instead of vying to be #4 as they did in the 50s, they are now vying to be #7. Although the Peg currently holds that spot, the Hammer is definitely in growth mode and is snapping at it's heels. Both are great cities with historic downtowns and a ton of history.

As for the Vancouver/Toronto thing, you are quite right that it is one sided. I think most Torontonians love Vancouver and might be a tad envious of the benign climate and spectacular scenery but there is no sense of rivalry.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by mousquet

the English offshoot of William decided they were the actual owners of France, since their ancestor William was a subject of his contemporary Frank king.
And that's how the whole French/English family rivalry got started.

That's how part of the English claims in France happened. The other part was the marriage of Henry II to Eleanor of Acquitaine.


https://thefreelancehistorywriter.co...en-of-england/

[JManc]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

Dallas vs. Houston is one I witness constantly. It likely stems from sports.

Cowboys - Oilers/Texans (Houston will always be 2nd fiddle in football)
Rangers - Astros (Houston finally gained the upper hand this year in baseball)
Mavericks - Rockets (Houston has the upper hand in basketball titles 2-1)

I never really noticed a strong rivalry between our teams. Cowgirls are NFC and Texans are AFC so rarely will ever square off. Maybe in preseason. People just hate Dallas.

Same thing with Rangers/ Astros even after the Astros moved to the AL. This may change now that Astros are not bringing up the rear every season and have a WS under their belt and the Rangers are also a solid team.

Now that Fertita owns the Rockets, we have our own celebrity billionaire owner to rival Mark Cuban.

Since i moved to TX, the Houston/ Dallas rivalry always seem to be on attitude and personality.

[Mikle]

Originally Posted by JManc

I never really noticed a strong rivalry between our teams. Cowgirls are NFC and Texans are AFC so rarely will ever square off. Maybe in preseason. People just hate Dallas.

Same thing with Rangers/ Astros even after the Astros moved to the AL. This may change now that Astros are not bringing up the rear every season and have a WS under their belt and the Rangers are also a solid team.

Now that Fertita owns the Rockets, we have our own celebrity billionaire owner to rival Mark Cuban.

Since i moved to TX, the Houston/ Dallas rivalry always seem to be on attitude and personality.

I believe the Dallas-Forth Worth rivalry is much bigger and am surprised it hasn't been mentioned.