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  #6341  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2017, 3:33 PM
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highly unlikely. You need a ton of piping and infrastructure to make a cooling tower work. Way too much effort to have a temporary location. Not to mention you would see physical evidence they were operating.
Wrong. I give you credit in that you are always so super confident in your complete guesses.
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  #6342  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2017, 7:25 PM
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Wrong. I give you credit in that you are always so super confident in your complete guesses.
It's not a guess. Cooling towers need power, water, circulation piping, pumps dunnage, etc. Having one installed temporarily would be a very expensive proposition. IN addition, to actually make any use of a cooling tower you need fully functioning air handlers and ductwork to distribute cool air. I've not seen any hi rise building provide (pricey) air conditioning for construction workers. In fact, the cooling towers and chillers are often installed near end of the project AFTER much of the HVAC infrastructure is installed- at least on lower floors.
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  #6343  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2017, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
It's not a guess. Cooling towers need power, water, circulation piping, pumps dunnage, etc. Having one installed temporarily would be a very expensive proposition. IN addition, to actually make any use of a cooling tower you need fully functioning air handlers and ductwork to distribute cool air. I've not seen any hi rise building provide (pricey) air conditioning for construction workers. In fact, the cooling towers and chillers are often installed near end of the project AFTER much of the HVAC infrastructure is installed- at least on lower floors.
OK, you know how cooling towers function but since you have no first hand knowledge of this specific project, it's a guess. We can call it an assumption if it makes you feel better but you're still wrong.

Look, if you just started out with the above post when someone questioned whether they were temporary cooling towers, your guess would be fine but you went out of your way to refute someone who is actually correct with your guess......sorry, assumption. That's your MO, I get it and to be honest, it makes you an interesting person on this board.
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  #6344  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2017, 9:12 PM
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So what's the schedule? Is it time for more cooling tower steel to go up soon?
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  #6345  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2017, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
It's not a guess. Cooling towers need power, water, circulation piping, pumps dunnage, etc. Having one installed temporarily would be a very expensive proposition. IN addition, to actually make any use of a cooling tower you need fully functioning air handlers and ductwork to distribute cool air. I've not seen any hi rise building provide (pricey) air conditioning for construction workers. In fact, the cooling towers and chillers are often installed near end of the project AFTER much of the HVAC infrastructure is installed- at least on lower floors.
I've got no idea if they are used for construction, but large portable coolers are available, all they need is power and a drain
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  #6346  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2017, 9:33 PM
PhillyPhlyr PhillyPhlyr is offline
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I've got no idea if they are used for construction, but large portable coolers are available, all they need is power and a drain
I was working inside FMC before completion and they had massive temporary cooling towers on the street. They sounded like jet engines running and it was humid as hell down there. My company was working on 26th floor and above when people were moving into and occupying office space down below, and it was nice and cool in that building.

Last edited by PhillyPhlyr; Jul 18, 2017 at 3:32 AM.
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  #6347  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 1:53 AM
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  #6348  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PHL10 View Post
OK, you know how cooling towers function but since you have no first hand knowledge of this specific project, it's a guess. We can call it an assumption if it makes you feel better but you're still wrong.

Look, if you just started out with the above post when someone questioned whether they were temporary cooling towers, your guess would be fine but you went out of your way to refute someone who is actually correct with your guess......sorry, assumption. That's your MO, I get it and to be honest, it makes you an interesting person on this board.
who has seen the cooling towers operating? You let me know since you got all the inside info on the project. This would clearly be visible to anyone looking at the north side. Has any photo shown evidence they are on? I certainly haven't seen one.
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  #6349  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PhillyPhlyr View Post
I was working inside FMC before completion and they had massive temporary cooling towers on the street. They sounded like jet engines running and it was humid as hell down there. My company was working on 26th floor and above when people were moving into and occupying office space down below, and it was nice and cool in that building.
that would make sense- temporary chillers needed until the building's system was ready to go. They used portable chillers for the concrete pour at the W hotel as well-and for the ice rink at Dillworth Park. That is much different than installing actual building cooling towers on a building only to move them 6 months later. You also need chillers to use cooling towers- I doubt there are any operating chillers at the CTC this far in advance of completion.
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  #6350  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 3:42 PM
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that would make sense- temporary chillers needed until the building's system was ready to go. They used portable chillers for the concrete pour at the W hotel as well-and for the ice rink at Dillworth Park. That is much different than installing actual building cooling towers on a building only to move them 6 months later. You also need chillers to use cooling towers- I doubt there are any operating chillers at the CTC this far in advance of completion.
I doubt that any chillers mounted at the very top are going to be used for the office portion of this building. I would assume any chillers up there are for the hotel.
I don't know how they work but I remember something about the Comcast section of the tower will be cooled with 'chilled beams' or something like that. Maybe that would allow some cooling of work areas to take place before construction is finished. Don't forget that these large buildings have their HVAC systems designed to work in a zone lay out, so in theory one floor or part of a floor could be cooled while work is going on in that space, then turned off once the work was done.
Big 4' fans on wheels can make a big difference as well. They move a surprising amount of air.
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  #6351  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 3:55 PM
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First Look: Four Seasons Hotel at Comcast Technology Center renderings revealed

Read more here: https://philly.curbed.com/2017/7/17/...hia-renderings
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  #6352  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 4:53 PM
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  #6353  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 6:03 PM
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I doubt that any chillers mounted at the very top are going to be used for the office portion of this building. I would assume any chillers up there are for the hotel.
I don't know how they work but I remember something about the Comcast section of the tower will be cooled with 'chilled beams' or something like that. Maybe that would allow some cooling of work areas to take place before construction is finished. Don't forget that these large buildings have their HVAC systems designed to work in a zone lay out, so in theory one floor or part of a floor could be cooled while work is going on in that space, then turned off once the work was done.
Big 4' fans on wheels can make a big difference as well. They move a surprising amount of air.

On the CC the chillers are not on top of the building if I remember correctly. But the fact that the building has multiple uses doesn't really have any bearing on where the chillers are located. The closer they are to the cooling towers the less pumping you have to do to remove heat via the CT so typically in high rises both are near the top of the building.

A cooling tower by itself, no matter where you see it cannot do anything alone. So to have a temp set up you need the piping, chiller, pumps, etc. which is why I doubt what we see is a temp set up for construction. My initial guess was that they are doing to stay there, but be blocked by some sort of shroud but someone else said they weren't in any of the renderings and thus should not be there when the building is done.

These buildings def have zones, but without ducts, air handlers, VAVs, controls, etc. you can use any of that.
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  #6354  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 11:30 AM
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  #6355  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 11:34 AM
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  #6356  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 11:37 AM
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  #6357  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Plokoon11 View Post
So what's the schedule? Is it time for more cooling tower steel to go up soon?
Based on the schedule listed on the slides below, it looks like it's at least a week off schedule, but they may be ahead on some other work, like the BMU. The CT-2 Slab corrugated metal decking on the North side looks like it just was installed the other day. The image seems to suggest that the concrete was expected to have been poured last Friday.



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  #6358  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 1:34 PM
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On the CC the chillers are not on top of the building if I remember correctly. But the fact that the building has multiple uses doesn't really have any bearing on where the chillers are located. The closer they are to the cooling towers the less pumping you have to do to remove heat via the CT so typically in high rises both are near the top of the building.

A cooling tower by itself, no matter where you see it cannot do anything alone. So to have a temp set up you need the piping, chiller, pumps, etc. which is why I doubt what we see is a temp set up for construction. My initial guess was that they are doing to stay there, but be blocked by some sort of shroud but someone else said they weren't in any of the renderings and thus should not be there when the building is done.

These buildings def have zones, but without ducts, air handlers, VAVs, controls, etc. you can use any of that.

You really are impossible-------yes, its pretty clear to anyone with a pinch of common sense that a chiller by itself does nothing, and it needs pipes, pumps, etc. But what do you think they have been doing for the last 3 years; constructing a building which at some point in time includes those items.

Damn man, nobody is saying that the workers are wearing their Speedo's because its so cold in the building, or that any of the HVAC is working, yesterday, today or tomorrow; only that it might be a possibility that some of the equipment MIGHT be working.

After 3 years construction and considering the state of the building and that move in is not too far away, its not unreasonable to expect that a lot of the equipment in the building, such as HVAC, is available when needed.

All this just because of two pieces of equipment on a rooftop that are surprising in their visibility and that most people hope and expect to be moved at some point in the (near) future.

Last edited by City Wide; Jul 19, 2017 at 2:57 PM.
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  #6359  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 1:38 PM
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  #6360  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2017, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gw04 View Post
Based on the schedule listed on the slides below, it looks like it's at least a week off schedule, but they may be ahead on some other work, like the BMU. The CT-2 Slab corrugated metal decking on the North side looks like it just was installed the other day. The image seems to suggest that the concrete was expected to have been poured last Friday.



Great post! Geeking out on the terminology and images!
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