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  #1321  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by boborider View Post
Thanks for the link but, unless I am completely missing something, I still can't see what the remaining 17.5 acres of CP land is going to be used for.

The CP container facility is all that has to move out to the GTH. The rest of the CP downtown lands will presuably continue to owned and operated by CP for whatever pupose they are currently used for.
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  #1322  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 7:31 PM
brithgob brithgob is offline
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Originally Posted by Stormer View Post
The CP container facility is all that has to move out to the GTH. The rest of the CP downtown lands will presuably continue to owned and operated by CP for whatever pupose they are currently used for.
My first impression of this is disastrous. It seems all for nothing if there's still a RAILYARD scarring the middle of the city.
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  #1323  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 7:32 PM
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To build another outdoor facility is outright silly!!! We might as well keep what we've got. In the final analysis, a new open-air stadium will still sit empty for the vast majority of the year.

As I mentioned in the L-P and S-P, that's like the difference of a motorcyclisat riding in the rain. Whether the rider rides a new bike or an old one - he/she will get just as wet!!!!
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  #1324  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 7:46 PM
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Where on Evraz Place would they most likely locate the stadium? Is that whole area city-owned?
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  #1325  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 7:50 PM
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SkydivePilot: Football has traditionally been played outdoors. Even large cities are moving to single-purpose open-air stadiums, which are cheaper to build and operate. If you don't like the weather, stay home.

Putting the stadium at Evraz Place is an interesting idea. Most likely it'd be on the land between the Brandt Centre and Elphinstone Street. Wonder if they'd keep the current northwest/southeast orientation of the field, or change it? They'd definitely be wise to include generous space in the end zones for additional Grey Cup seating. Though I don't agree that the new stadium needs to have 35,000 seats. Even in good years, the 'Riders aren't normally going to need more than 33,000 seats, because there's just not that much demand.

An underpass at the CPR crossing at Elphinstone would be much appreciated, think the city could swing it?

As for the CPR land, it might be an OK place for some condo towers aimed at single young professionals. That makes for an attractive client base for the nightlife right across the street. There would probably be some green space near the CPR mainline for an eventual walkway leading to Evraz Place.

This is starting to sound like it might be a good idea if planned and executed properly.

Last edited by wacko; May 4, 2012 at 8:00 PM.
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  #1326  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 8:13 PM
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You're thinking of right now wacko, if Saskatchewan and Regina continue to grow like they are, 33k won't be enough capacity in 5-10 years, and in 5-10 years, there wouldn't be much public appetite to expand so soon after it was built.

And as a young professional myself, I wouldn't touch a condo that close to the rail line/CP facility. I'd rather have one that is actually downtown. Besides, if they are priced like capital pointe, rose, and the other that I can never remember the proper name for; young professionals won't be able to afford them.

Besides, we could end up hurting downtown if we start to think about really pushing the CP lands. Things that should ideally be downtown might be developed there instead of downtown where it would have a more important impact in reviving the area (e.g a theatre), and then you run into the issue of stalling the momentum downtown has had lately. It's definitely going to be a fine balancing act for the city over the next 10-15 years.
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  #1327  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 8:39 PM
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Yes, Regina and Saskatchewan are growing right now, but it would be naive to think that growth would continue indefinitely. In any case, it would be easy to expand a new outdoor stadium if warranted by demand: simply put a couple thousand extra bleacher seats in the end zones. You can design the stadium to expand that way (this would have to be done for Grey Cup events anyway), and it's relatively cheap as well.

I would hope that any condos built on the CPR land would be priced in the $150,000 to $200,000 range, as that would attract demand. But if you don't want condos there, what would you put on the land? Would it be possible to improve density without taking away from the downtown area?
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  #1328  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 8:44 PM
Dougler306 Dougler306 is offline
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Your probablly right nathan about the brandt center not expanding for many years, but there was an article in the leader post(cant find it now) a while back talking about how evraz was in a wait and see mode before going ahead with expansion becuase they wanted to see what the city was going to do( domed or open-air) becuase they didnt want to have to compete with another indoor facility that can host trade shows or other major indoor events. Since it wont be competing for those event's, it can start its expansion? assuming they have the funds
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  #1329  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
I can't see either... They are touting residential and commercial, but if I were looking for a place to live, I'm not going to choose somewhere right beside a mainline and adjacent to some sort of actual rail activities ( not sure what CP is still going to be using the other 15.5 acres for).

And if we are getting a 280m facility, there definitely won't be funds for a Brandt centre expansion or replacement for at least 25 years (so say goodbye to Regina's chances of hosting any big arena tours anytime soon).

Also, if the build the stadium at Evraz, they might want to consider building an underpass under the rail line crossing elphinstone, because if a train comes at the wrong time, traffic (both foot and vehicular) is going to be a cluster-f*ck. I also think they need to build some sort of pathway/green space along the north side of the rail line from downtown to the stadium to give some pedestrians a safe way to walk there (for people who stay in downtown hotels for the games or people who park there).

Also, I think if we are going outdoor (cheaper than indoor) we should go a bit bigger than 33k. I'm thinking in the 35k range with the ability to expand to 55k for the Grey Cup. If we're are going to sped this kind of money, we may as well make sure that it lasts and remains useful/the right size to serve the needs.

Anyway, those are my opinions on it (not all were applicable to your post).

Small capacity will keep ticket prices up.

I knew from the start it would be open-air the City has no means to build a dome facility this is the best option for us in comparison to my UofR idea.

That mainline was going to be there with a Stadium so the talk of livability does not make much sense. in Toronto, and Calgary, and Vancouver Condos straddle their mainlines, in Vancouver and Toronto those lines see constant use with commuter rail service throughout the day.

The CP lands and Warehouse district can become our Cities Beltline with Dewdney acting as the main hub/strip. If the City takes as much detail with the CP yards as with downtown (and not hold a fire sale to get cash) it can easily be one of the best core districts in Canada.

Brandt Centre expansion will be up to Evraz and their people. IF they see value in building a new arena they will. This idea of mega-tours is one of the past. The trend in entertainment only has very few artists doing large Arena tours. Live Nation has plans to build venues in major cities and run them themselves with medium sized venues being perferd as it extracts more revenue with limited seating.

Plus the Outdoor facility can still host one-off large concerts, this is typically what happens in the USA and in warmer climates the NFL and college football fields get used for large shows.

I favor open-air because its considerably cheaper to run. You don't get high operating costs with a open air facility. Regina could not afford to have a dome which sucks 15-25M per year out of the coffers on-top of debt payments. Just to keep the lights on would be a considerable expense. At least with a open-air facility the costs represent what its used for. Games and events. And it hammers in the main purpose of a Stadium. To house the Riders.. .since the CFL and Riders cry poor they can go lick mud if they want a Taj Mahal to play in. A world class outdoor football stadium is more than good enough for a football team to play in.

With this proposal you get even more land on the CP site to leverage to private hands. A TIF (Tax-increment-financing) situation could arise where taxes/levees from the CP site can go towards managing the debt of the Stadium which is a + in my opinion. You get more land to do this versus having the Stadium taking up the majority of the CP site.

The Stadium is the non-issue now. the CP site IMO may pose some issues. TO make it as attractive to developers the City will have to clean up the site which might be a environmental dump from years of being a heavy industry site. The soil may have to shipped out and cleaned and a bunch of tests done with servicing obviously put in place in regards to roads, sewer, power.

Great news. This is the responsible path that gets all needs met. The City owns the land already on the Evraz Patch.. it just makes sense.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougler306 View Post
Your probablly right nathan about the brandt center not expanding for many years, but there was an article in the leader post(cant find it now) a while back talking about how evraz was in a wait and see mode before going ahead with expansion becuase they wanted to see what the city was going to do( domed or open-air) becuase they didnt want to have to compete with another indoor facility that can host trade shows or other major indoor events. Since it wont be competing for those event's, it can start its expansion? assuming they have the funds
This gives more incentive to Evraz with these facilities all whiten there boundaries they can be strategic into making Evraz into a type of Corporate-sports-entertainment-fair hub line what is present in Houston. Where the Stadium, Arena and Convention center all share the same fair grounds.
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  #1330  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 9:43 PM
brithgob brithgob is offline
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The CP land shouldn't be seen as COMPETING with downtown; it IS downtown. I don't think it's right for office towers, but something like a theatre would be a good fit. (By the way, dear theatre industry, not another Galaxy. It's time to step up from minor-league facilities.) I can't understand why half the space is suddenly unavailable. Leaving in the mainline is one thing, but suddenly they can't live without all those other yards?
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  #1331  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 10:25 PM
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Do we really need to keep demand and ticket prices overly high though? Yes there is a point to not overbuild capacity, but for the riders there is also the very real issue of under-building. That's why I think 35k is good middle ground, it provides a 2k cushion to grow into/make use out of for big games during the normal course and wouldn't require renting the rickety temp bleachers except for Grey Cups. It also makes it possible to make more money of you have more sideline seats than endzone. Endzone seats can't really be priced too high since those are generally viewed as "crap seats" for football.

But anyway, the most important factor in the design is making sure that it doesn't impede on expansion in the endzones for Grey Cups. Now that it will be outdoor and you don't have to worry about a roof or anything like that, limiting the possibilities to anything below the 50k mark would in my opinion be a mistake.

And as far as the CP yards now bring a "part" of downtown, I don't see it. The track is a very real separation, the casino faces away from it, and (the biggest part) with CP keeping half the land it will be hard to make a link between the two. I guess we will just have to wai and see though. I'm assuming CP will be keeping the portions closer to the old Superstore and letting the half closer to broad go? Does anyone know that part of the deal yet? Or is it yet to be released?
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  #1332  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 11:03 PM
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I should clarify my comments re the CP lands a bit I think. Now that there is no stadium and the development will just be regular infill (residential, commercial, some entertainment, etc), I just think we should be worrying about attracting some of these things to the core of downtown and eventually working outward, rather than spurring development at the edges.
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  #1333  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
I should clarify my comments re the CP lands a bit I think. Now that there is no stadium and the development will just be regular infill (residential, commercial, some entertainment, etc), I just think we should be worrying about attracting some of these things to the core of downtown and eventually working outward, rather than spurring development at the edges.
Hopefully this is the case. We will see what direction they eventually lead towards. It will be a 20+ year project if done right with the same amount of detail as the downtown plan.

If its a fire sale you will see rapid and crappy infill take place. Fiacoo and his heir Michael IMO come from the fire sale camp.
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  #1334  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
I should clarify my comments re the CP lands a bit I think. Now that there is no stadium and the development will just be regular infill (residential, commercial, some entertainment, etc), I just think we should be worrying about attracting some of these things to the core of downtown and eventually working outward, rather than spurring development at the edges.
This is a real opportunity to unite the core of the city - the downtown and the WD. This is a chance to inject new life and attract real investment into the heart. One of the best ways to do is by having the public sector commit finances and resources to realizing that revitalization.

I understand your point about detracting away from what is "downtown" but on the contrary I see it as the opposite. Showing a commitment to downtown revitalization by opening these lands up for both public and private investment will show private investors that you are serious about intensification. This will attract investment beyond the CP yard.

You can create so many plans for downtown revitalization, but unless the public sector commits resources and is a partner in development, likely your plan will remain on paper. Through the City Square project it was hoped that investment will follow - maybe it will, but as much as that was about creating a great public space, it was also about showing the private sector that the City is taking a key role in downtown revitalization by pursuing their own projects.

Development in the WD has been basically non-existant. I have no doubt that the CP development is going to spur redevelopment north of Dewdney. We need something like this to generate excitement and interest in inner-city redevelopment.

This is an exciting day for the city - and as far as I'm concerned this was the best option to go with.
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  #1335  
Old Posted May 4, 2012, 11:50 PM
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I recognise that if done right, it could have transformative implications that would positively impact downtown... But if it isn't done right, it could really hinder downtown. I think the library rebuild/redevelopment project generally has a better chance of spurring other development downtown than this plan. but time will tell I guess... Perhaps the two in concert will work well.

It's exciting times to be in Regina though... There hasn't been this much discussion about developments in a very long time. Better to be debating about the merit of one development vs another than having no developments to talk about.
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  #1336  
Old Posted May 5, 2012, 12:07 AM
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I recognise that if done right, it could have transformative implications that would positively impact downtown... But if it isn't done right, it could really hinder downtown. I think the library rebuild/redevelopment project generally has a better chance of spurring other development downtown than this plan. but time will tell I guess... Perhaps the two in concert will work well.

It's exciting times to be in Regina though... There hasn't been this much discussion about developments in a very long time. Better to be debating about the merit of one development vs another than having no developments to talk about.
You are correct - the library re-development will have a larger impact on what we consider "downtown" right not. That being said, I think the impact of this redevelopment will be higher level in that I think, if done right will have people reconsider their view of "urban" living and downtown Regina.

Our existing opportunity for "urban" living is pretty slim. If this is done correctly i think more people will be attracted to living/being downtown. This is a great opportunity to start from scratch using contemporary planning theory. A really great opportunity to reinvent the perception and what exist in the core.

Anyways - I'd rather be talking about how a new innercity neighbourhood might detract from downtown vs another Harbour Landing doing damage to the core. Exciting times!
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  #1337  
Old Posted May 5, 2012, 1:02 AM
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The Library is a good first step. I think you need projects to come online quickly to put faith in the public and investors. The rail yards will be a long process so a new library (hopefully) within 5 years will get the ball rolling nicely.
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  #1338  
Old Posted May 5, 2012, 1:20 AM
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I still haven't seen an explanation why we're only talking about 17 acres and not 33. (Then again, I'm still waiting for Ottawa's explanation for turning down without even a hearing any requests for money even remotely to do with "professional" sports after Toronto's professional soccer stadium got 27 million in federal dollars.)
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  #1339  
Old Posted May 5, 2012, 1:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brithgob View Post
I still haven't seen an explanation why we're only talking about 17 acres and not 33. (Then again, I'm still waiting for Ottawa's explanation for turning down without even a hearing any requests for money even remotely to do with "professional" sports after Toronto's professional soccer stadium got 27 million in federal dollars.)
Because CP has deemed for whatever reason of their own, that they need to maintain some operations there. If the prov would have at least concluded the land deal instead of completely walking away, we wouldn't have had this mess with not getting the full parcel.
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  #1340  
Old Posted May 5, 2012, 1:37 AM
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Dam the federal gov is a bunch of cheapskates! They can give money to toronto to build shit, but no where else in canada! Ill be so frustrated if they dont lend the money to build this

Gerry Ritz, federal agriculture minister and regional minister for Saskatchewan, reaffirmed the federal government’s position against funding stadiums in a press release on Friday.

“Canadians gave us a mandate to get back to balanced budgets and continue to focus on jobs and the economy. Our most recent election platform stated that we will not fund professional sports facilities. We will continue to apply this policy uniformly across the country.”


Read more: http://www.leaderpost.com/City+eyes+...#ixzz1txIenVQj
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