Northern Ontario developments!

[Lmernier]

Terra Vista construction has been stopped... legal issues.

[TbayON]

THUNDER BAY

Ground has been broken on the new Confederation College TEC Hub building. An existing building is currently being demolished and site services installed. Penn-co Construction from Winnipeg will be constructing the building.

[TbayON]

THUNDER BAY

Superstructure for the Delta hotel at the waterfront should start going up very soon.

Superstore gas bar on Memorial Ave. (along with all locations in Canada) will be switching over to the Mobil brand. A many months long process of putting the gas bars up for sale and finding a buyer has just been made widespread public knowledge.

Apparently Taranis Cont. is going to be building an asphalt plant at their Rosslyn Rd. facility.

Frape & Sons Bitters is going to be renovating the former EMS station on Arthur St. for their new retail and production facility. I guess they came to a settlement with the Ontario government after threatening to move production to Minnesota because of excessive tax laws.

[TbayON]

THUNDER BAY

Thunder Bay based North Star Air has been purchased by the North West Company. The NWC has purchased the airline in an attempt to better control costs moving goods to their operations in the far north. The NWC has indicated they will spend $14 million on new planes and 'hub improvements' when the deal closes. Not sure what this will mean for Thunder Bay. Apparently the NWC has already advised other airlines they deal with that volumes will be dropping significantly.

Should be an interesting one to watch. With rose coloured glasses on, one would see a shipping hub developed at the Thunder Bay Airport, or nearby. More likely though that a lot of North Star's cargo capabilities will be employed out of Winnipeg now (NWC's home) to serve areas outside of Northwestern Ontario.

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Homewood Suites by Hilton North Bay now added to the Hilton booking system and accepting reservations for arrival July 3 onwards.

http://homewoodsuites3.hilton.com/en...OHW/index.html

[TbayON]

THUNDER BAY

The province has announced that a new correctional facility will be built in Thunder Bay. The new building will have 325 beds. If I am understanding correctly, this new facility will replace both existing correctional facilities in Thunder Bay.

[TbayON]

THUNDER BAY

Noticed some geotechnical/soil testing going on at Fort William Rd. next to Quality Carpet (on the south side where Intercity dumps snow). This is typically a very good sign that the property may be developed and/or sold to a developer in the near future.

The new KFC location proposed for Fort William Rd. behind Canadian Tire is being re-tendered. Don't expect this one to get going immediately. I believe renovations have begun on the KFC on Arthur St. though.

Costco update: I had been hearing rumours that Costco had pulled all plans for coming to Thunder Bay over the last month or two. The mayor has clarified the company's stance though. Apparently the developer that was looking at bringing Costco to Thunder Bay has backed off those plans, but Costco itself still wants to be here. Just need time to make new plans. In a related newspaper article today, Dan McTeague of GasBuddy stated its only a matter of time to a major retailer (like Costco) comes to Thunder Bay with in an in-house gas station because of the high margins in gasoline here. Not that that would be the only reason for moving in, but nonetheless a major draw.

[vid]

I was just discussing with some of my friends a little while ago that I don't think Costco's business model would be as successful here as people think. We're used to getting things for free and we're all very cheap here. Wholesale Club outside of this region, at this point, is now a membership-only store. They haven't moved to that business model here, and I really doubt they will. People will stop going there, because their prices really aren't that much better than Superstore for food or than CA Ferguson for business supplies.

Also, a lot of people here already use the model of having one person have a Costco membership in Winnipeg or Sudbury and just stocking up on everything for numerous people and bringing the goods back here. If Costco does come here, all those people will have to get memberships to shop there because I doubt that one friend will want to continue being everyone's delivery boy. Will they consider it worth it? I kind of have my doubts. We don't have three cities of 50,000 to 75,000 orbiting us like Sudbury does.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by vid

I was just discussing with some of my friends a little while ago that I don't think Costco's business model would be as successful here as people think. We're used to getting things for free and we're all very cheap here. Wholesale Club outside of this region, at this point, is now a membership-only store. They haven't moved to that business model here, and I really doubt they will. People will stop going there, because their prices really aren't that much better than Superstore for food or than CA Ferguson for business supplies.

Also, a lot of people here already use the model of having one person have a Costco membership in Winnipeg or Sudbury and just stocking up on everything for numerous people and bringing the goods back here. If Costco does come here, all those people will have to get memberships to shop there because I doubt that one friend will want to continue being everyone's delivery boy. Will they consider it worth it? I kind of have my doubts. We don't have three cities of 50,000 to 75,000 orbiting us like Sudbury does.

I'm very confident that Costco would do extremely well in T-Bay. Sudbury has had one since 1999 and it has gotten busier every year yet the regional population hasn't grown. I believe Thunder Bay has higher average incomes than Sudbury as Costco tends to attract a lot of upper middle-class people. It also gets lots of business from small businesses. Just being a regional centre for shopping with a population over 100,000 is enough for a successful Costco.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I'm very confident that Costco would do extremely well in T-Bay. Sudbury has had one since 1999 and it has gotten busier every year yet the regional population hasn't grown. I believe Thunder Bay has higher average incomes than Sudbury as Costco tends to attract a lot of upper middle-class people. It also gets lots of business from small businesses. Just being a regional centre for shopping with a population over 100,000 is enough for a successful Costco.

I agree that Costco would do very well here ! With approx. 120 000 in the general area that's enough to support it . Not to mention all the people who will stock up from far regions .
You always see people loading there trucks up full and putting tarps over there supplies at the Superstore everyday .
As a former Costco member , people will pay the membership fee for sure .Not sure if they still do it , but a gold card got you a percentage back on what you spent and it would offset the fee depending on your yearly spending.
If and when they do decide to build it , they must put it Innova Park right at the corner of Expressway and highway . People travelling across Canada who are members will see it and could stop in as well.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by vid

I was just discussing with some of my friends a little while ago that I don't think Costco's business model would be as successful here as people think. We're used to getting things for free and we're all very cheap here. Wholesale Club outside of this region, at this point, is now a membership-only store. They haven't moved to that business model here, and I really doubt they will. People will stop going there, because their prices really aren't that much better than Superstore for food or than CA Ferguson for business supplies.

While they may have moved to a membership-only model, here in Winnipeg (at least) they aren't charging for it. While there was a charge when they launched the model they quickly backed off that and, currently, memberships are completely free.

As for Costco in Thunder Bay: when it happens it happens. And it will be like a bomb went off in the retail sector in Thunder Bay: Everyone there now will be scrambling to try and keep their market share in the face of Costco arriving. There are already people in TBay that pay for Costco memberships and drive to Sudbury, Winnipeg etc to shop. TBay is a market Costco wants to be in BUT they will wait until the time is right.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I agree that Costco would do very well here ! With approx. 120 000 in the general area that's enough to support it . Not to mention all the people who will stock up from far regions .
You always see people loading there trucks up full and putting tarps over there supplies at the Superstore everyday .
As a former Costco member , people will pay the membership fee for sure .Not sure if they still do it , but a gold card got you a percentage back on what you spent and it would offset the fee depending on your yearly spending.
If and when they do decide to build it , they must put it Innova Park right at the corner of Expressway and highway . People travelling across Canada who are members will see it and could stop in as well.

Costco usually chooses locations that have lots of traffic and are near major retailers. You are right about it being along the Expressway as many people driving through would stop there. It's a VERY popular place for a low-cost lunch or supper as well.

[newhere]

Any chance Costco is waiting for Sears to fold its tent? I know Costco is usually a stand alone but the location would be great. Or, how about finally moving the CLE and using this area for retail? While we are pondering "why nots", why couldn't the Farmers Market move into the old Eatons building...a smaller version of the Market in Ottawa.

[toaster]

The Costco in Gatineau is in the mall, although I heard they are trying to get out of it, and try to get closer to the Ontario border.

One of the reason's Sudbury has a Costco (and Thunder Bay doesn't) is because of the much larger secondary market it has. North Bay, Sault Ste Marie, Timmins, and all the surrounding communities are part of Sudbury Costco's market area. Thunder Bay doesn't have that kind of population surrounding it.

[vid]

Farmer's markets downtown are difficult, logistically, because you not only have so many customers converging on them at once, but you also have to accommodate the vendors themselves bringing in their goods almost all at once too. It's already a bit of a shit show at the CLE and they actually have space there, so it would be pretty difficult, logistically, to put them downtown. A lot of the bigger farmers markets in the country are actually in rural areas and farmers bring tractors and animals and everything out to them. Ours is pretty small by comparison.

Using the Eaton's Building as a convention centre is probably the most logical option at the current time, but then you'd have to find somewhere to put the current tenants.

Being a tenant of Intercity Mall isn't just "give us $100/month per square foot", it's also "give us 1% of your sales revenue". Costco would never agree to that. The footprint of the Costco in Sudbury is also 13,00sqm. Sears' footprint is 7,600sqm. It's around 10,200sqm at most when you factor in the second level, and Costco probably wants everything on a single level. Even the Superstore building is not big enough for a Costco.

If they went where County Fair Mall is, they'd basically have to get rid of everything to fit there. If they took over part of Innova Park, it would take up more space than the proposed Multiplex. Costco is a gigantic store. You need that kind of space when you're selling 3-packs of barbeques and 12-packs of lawn chairs.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by toaster

The Costco in Gatineau is in the mall, although I heard they are trying to get out of it, and try to get closer to the Ontario border.

One of the reason's Sudbury has a Costco (and Thunder Bay doesn't) is because of the much larger secondary market it has. North Bay, Sault Ste Marie, Timmins, and all the surrounding communities are part of Sudbury Costco's market area. Thunder Bay doesn't have that kind of population surrounding it.

You're right about Sudbury having a larger market. But Thunder Bay's isn't that small and the city has major institutions just like Sudbury. There are also many towns and First Nations where people from them would travel to make large purchases including fly-in places.

A Costco opened in Peterborough a few years back and its market size is no bigger than T-Bay's.

I have been to the Gatineau location and it is rare to find one attached to a shopping mall. I would be very surprised if they want to move as that warehouse is actually a relocation. The original Costco (actually is was Club Price then later Costco) was located here in this building just off Autoroute 50 along Boulevard Labrosse: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.51441...7i13312!8i6656

Here is a view of it from the other side where you can see the tire centre and entrance. It has blue instead of red because that was the Price Club (known as Club Price in Quebec) colour. Interesting that the building seemed abandoned and the streetview was done in 2015. Costco's website shows that the original location opened in 1993. I remember shopping there in 2000 and 2001 and maybe a few years after that. Just read that it moved into Les Promenades Gatineau in 2006.

But a HUGE part of that location's business is Ontarians buying beer.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

You're right about Sudbury having a larger market. But Thunder Bay's isn't that small and the city has major institutions just like Sudbury. There are also many towns and First Nations where people from them would travel to make large purchases including fly-in places.

A Costco opened in Peterborough a few years back and its market size is no bigger than T-Bay's.

I have been to the Gatineau location and it is rare to find one attached to a shopping mall. I would be very surprised if they want to move as that warehouse is actually a relocation. The original Costco (actually is was Club Price then later Costco) was located here in this building just off Autoroute 50 along Boulevard Labrosse: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.51441...7i13312!8i6656

Here is a view of it from the other side where you can see the tire centre and entrance. It has blue instead of red because that was the Price Club (known as Club Price in Quebec) colour. Interesting that the building seemed abandoned and the streetview was done in 2015. Costco's website shows that the original location opened in 1993. I remember shopping there in 2000 and 2001 and maybe a few years after that. Just read that it moved into Les Promenades Gatineau in 2006.

But a HUGE part of that location's business is Ontarians buying beer.

Isn't Thunder Bay's airport the busiest by number of planes?
With a costco, that could mean those planes have stuff from Costco.

[TbayON]

Thunder Bay's airport is likely the third or fourth busiest in Ontario by passenger volume. Pearson in T.O. and Ottawa are busier, and I'm thinking Billy Bishop in downtown T.O. is now also busier (only because Porter has turned it into their main hub). For a city of the size of Thunder Bay, the airport is extremely busy relative to other cities of similar population. Not sure one would see a lot of stuff being flown north out of Costco. Probably get a lot more business from those that can drive to Thunder Bay.

I believe we are at least 18 months from seeing any concrete plans from Costco, especially now that they have to find a new developer to work with. I've been wrong many times before though.

=====

Hearing that the condos are set to go at the Thunder Bay Country Club. Apparently everything, including someone to run the job, is in place now. My understanding is that the existing foundation and related work that was completed before the job stopped can be salvaged.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Loco101

You're right about Sudbury having a larger market. But Thunder Bay's isn't that small and the city has major institutions just like Sudbury. There are also many towns and First Nations where people from them would travel to make large purchases including fly-in places.

A Costco opened in Peterborough a few years back and its market size is no bigger than T-Bay's.

I have been to the Gatineau location and it is rare to find one attached to a shopping mall. I would be very surprised if they want to move as that warehouse is actually a relocation. The original Costco (actually is was Club Price then later Costco) was located here in this building just off Autoroute 50 along Boulevard Labrosse: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.51441...7i13312!8i6656

Here is a view of it from the other side where you can see the tire centre and entrance. It has blue instead of red because that was the Price Club (known as Club Price in Quebec) colour. Interesting that the building seemed abandoned and the streetview was done in 2015. Costco's website shows that the original location opened in 1993. I remember shopping there in 2000 and 2001 and maybe a few years after that. Just read that it moved into Les Promenades Gatineau in 2006.

But a HUGE part of that location's business is Ontarians buying beer.

I think Thunder Bay is the largest market that is not served by a Costco in Canada yet. It's only a matter of time IMO. As for Costco using a former occupied space, I'd doubt it - unless the space was a former aircraft hangar, Costco uses a rather unique store layout. I could it being located in Innova Park - good road access and lots of space in a central location.

And yes, I've been one of those Ontario residents that have made the trip over to the Gatineau Costco for beer. The checkout clerks there knew immediately who was from Ontario and who wasn't.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

I think Thunder Bay is the largest market that is not served by a Costco in Canada yet. It's only a matter of time IMO. As for Costco using a former occupied space, I'd doubt it - unless the space was a former aircraft hangar, Costco uses a rather unique store layout. I could it being located in Innova Park - good road access and lots of space in a central location.

And yes, I've been one of those Ontario residents that have made the trip over to the Gatineau Costco for beer. The checkout clerks there knew immediately who was from Ontario and who wasn't.

My kids joke that all of the Ontario people at Costco in Gatineau have the 55-can Coors light case (for about 60 bucks) in their carts. They don't even have to open their mouths.