Emerson, Manitoba border crossings

[kwoldtimer]

Time to change the name of this thread, perhaps?

I wonder what percentage of Haitian refugee applicants are successful? Given conditions in Haiti, I imagine the case for humanitarian grounds would be fairly strong.

Edit: So I looked quickly on-line and it seems that the acceptance rate was around 66% a couple of years ago, but that numbers of Haitian applicants and acceptance rate may have dipped in 2016.

[esquire]

Wow, the numbers have certainly soared in Quebec. Stories about refugees being housed in Olympic Stadium have been splashed around the national media this week.

Oddly, the number of people coming into Emerson have diminished significantly since the winter... apparently only 63 in June compared to 170 in March when it was still bitterly cold and treacherous outside. There was some concern at the time that the numbers would explode once the weather got better, but that hasn't happened.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by esquire

Oddly, the number of people coming into Emerson have diminished significantly since the winter... apparently only 63 in June compared to 170 in March when it was still bitterly cold and treacherous outside. There was some concern at the time that the numbers would explode once the weather got better, but that hasn't happened.

Indeed, based on what I've read the overwhelming majority of refugies have entered through Quebec. According to this CNN article: "More than 4,000 people have been intercepted as they crossed into Canada this year, according to the government's data. Of the 4,345 crossings, 3,350 -- the vast majority -- were in Quebec.
" (http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/03/americ...ers/index.html)

Time for thread name change?

[speedog]

Maybe just a new thread?

[lio45]

You can't make this up; reality (sometimes stranger than fiction...) isn't actually that far from this:




I have to say the humor in there did make me chuckle. (Though of course I realize it's a serious situation for everybody involved...)

[Aylmer]

It's funny, but it's very far from reality. People who make irregular crossings are searched, their belongings are searched, their documents are rigorously verified, and they can be detained for days, weeks or even months if something does not check out.

I don't even think the Journal de Montréal can claim that people crossing at Lacolle are being subjected to anything remotely approaching that level of rigour, as evidenced by the recently-reported fact that a number of Americans have accidentally smuggled weapons into Canada. Even then, they just pay a fine - they're not detained as they would be if they tried to cross irregularly.


Editorial cartoons are always fun. But it's healthy to question whether or not they line up with the reality of things.

[esquire]

It's mildly amusing to go back to the start of this thread and reread the hysterical comments from February about all of the "illegals" and the horrors they would bring upon our innocent little country...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

It's funny, but it's very far from reality. People who make irregular crossings are searched, their belongings are searched, their documents are rigorously verified, and they can be detained for days, weeks or even months if something does not check out.

I don't even think the Journal de Montréal can claim that people crossing at Lacolle are being subjected to anything remotely approaching that level of rigour, as evidenced by the recently-reported fact that a number of Americans have accidentally smuggled weapons into Canada. Even then, they just pay a fine - they're not detained as they would be if they tried to cross irregularly.


Editorial cartoons are always fun. But it's healthy to question whether or not they line up with the reality of things.

If it's true that the border scrutiny that illegal migrants are subjected to is a level 10, then if regular Canadian citizens simply returning home are subjected to something in the vicinity of a 5, it's still probably too high.

It should be a 1 or a 2.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's mildly amusing to go back to the start of this thread and reread the hysterical comments from February about all of the "illegals" and the horrors they would bring upon our innocent little country...

No horrors, and nothing we can't cope with (so far), imo, but do keep in mind some practical implications. What is happening is going to cost taxpayers bowcoo coin, especially if the government has to expand the system to cope (the last effort to bring the system up to scratch apparently cost a half billion dollars, I once read somewhere). People who have already been waiting for years for their determination may see themselves pushed even further back in the queue. There could also be implications for desperate potential applicants abroad, if the government needs to reduce refugee intake to cope with illegal border crossers (we're not there yet, but ....).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If it's true that the border scrutiny that illegal migrants are subjected to is a level 10, then if regular Canadian citizens simply returning home are subjected to something in the vicinity of a 5, it's still probably too high.

It should be a 1 or a 2.

The grilling I get at airports is usually no more than a 1 or 2, it's typically basic questions like where did you go, for how long, why, did you bring anything back.

The grilling I get at land crossings is probably more like 5... no doubt because CBSA is out to get people with undeclared car parts, home renovation materials or (horrors) cheap beer.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No horrors, and nothing we can't cope with (so far), imo, but do keep in mind some practical implications. What is happening is going to cost taxpayers bowcoo coin, especially if the government has to expand the system to cope (the last effort to bring the system up to scratch apparently cost a half billion dollars, I once read somewhere). People who have already been waiting for years for their determination may see themselves pushed even further back in the queue. There could also be implications for desperate potential applicants abroad, if the government needs to reduce refugee intake to cope with illegal border crossers (we're not there yet, but ....).

I'm not saying there won't be implications and costs attached to it, but the numbers have been manageable and there is a legitimate impetus behind them... refugees in the US have good reason to be afraid of what might happen to them. If you're a bisexual Ghanian worried about what might happen if you get sent back from the US, or a Haitian migrant with nothing to go back home to, you're not going to stick around while the US figures out what it's going to do... people in that position can't be faulted for crossing the border. Canada can handle that.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by esquire

The grilling I get at airports is usually no more than a 1 or 2, it's typically basic questions like where did you go, for how long, why, did you bring anything back.

The grilling I get at land crossings is probably more like 5... no doubt because CBSA is out to get people with undeclared car parts, home renovation materials or (horrors) cheap beer.



I'm not saying there won't be implications and costs attached to it, but the numbers have been manageable and there is a legitimate impetus behind them... refugees in the US have good reason to be afraid of what might happen to them. If you're a bisexual Ghanian worried about what might happen if you get sent back from the US, or a Haitian migrant with nothing to go back home to, you're not going to stick around while the US figures out what it's going to do... people in that position can't be faulted for crossing the border. Canada can handle that.

Just to note that the recent Haitians were not refugees or refugee applicants in the USA, although they are responding to a fear of deportation. They were in the USA under a temporay protection regime following the earthquake, as I understand it. The latest reports suggest that only half of the Haitians arriving in Canada are likely to be successful in their refugee claims. Ironically, some Haitians might find themelves returned to Haiti from Canada sooner than might have been the case had they stayed in the USA, although there is no way to know for sure. When I think of the hundreds of thousands of Salvadorans still under "temporary" protection in the USA fifteen years after the end of their civil war, I have to wonder how likely a mass deportation of Haitians would be.

[hipster duck]

^Given that the US Federal government is bad at coordinating any large-scale initiative except running the military, and given that it is probably easier to find under-the-table work in a place like Miami than in a place like Montreal, I would probably continue to stay in the US if I were a Haitian asylum seeker who is on the verge of having their visa lapse.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

The grilling I get at airports is usually no more than a 1 or 2, it's typically basic questions like where did you go, for how long, why, did you bring anything back.

The grilling I get at land crossings is probably more like 5... no doubt because CBSA is out to get people with undeclared car parts, home renovation materials or (horrors) cheap beer.

.

That's the kind of absurdity is was talking about. As was Le Journal de Montréal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not saying there won't be implications and costs attached to it, but the numbers have been manageable and there is a legitimate impetus behind them... refugees in the US have good reason to be afraid of what might happen to them. If you're a bisexual Ghanian worried about what might happen if you get sent back from the US, or a Haitian migrant with nothing to go back home to, you're not going to stick around while the US figures out what it's going to do... people in that position can't be faulted for crossing the border. Canada can handle that.

All quite true, but at this point things are still totally open-ended. We have no idea of or control over how many people might show up on our border.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

All quite true, but at this point things are still totally open-ended. We have no idea of or control over how many people might show up on our border.

Also true, although people need to be aware that that is nothing new. Harsh though it sounds, I suspect it would actually be "beneficial" in terns of the illegal border crossing issue if a few of the recent arrivals were found to be criminally inadmissable and their deportation given media attention.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Also true, although people need to be aware that that is nothing new. Harsh though it sounds, I suspect it would actually be "beneficial" in terns of the illegal border crossing issue if a few of the recent arrivals were found to be criminally inadmissable and their deportation given media attention.

Especially since the latest upsurge at the Quebec border is the result of misleading or erroneous social media posts that went viral.

[kwoldtimer]

To clarify, I didn't mean to imply that any of the illegal crossers are criminally inadmissable. It is possible that none are.

[someone123]

The US-Canada land border is really unpleasant, going either way. Canadians collectively have Stockholm syndrome, and have been trained to think that it's reasonable that they get grilled when they travel, so a partial grilling counts as magnanimity on the part of the border guard.

The border guards and airport security have a low success rate when it comes to actually detecting dangerous items and contraband (aside from items picked up by metal detector). Whether or not we think the questioning and invasion of privacy is okay, it doesn't seem to accomplish much.

The questioning might seem reasonable but if you don't fit a very standard profile you'll get effectively harsher treatment. For example, I tend to travel with my partner and because we are two males the border guards often presume that we're up to no good. We have to explain ourselves every time. I have crossed many, many times without incident (well, aside from being questioned over and over). Last year, a Canadian border guard started asking me about if I was using hookup apps and sleeping with people. Not too long ago, somebody from Vancouver was barred from entering the US because he had Grindr on his phone and the border guard took that to mean that he was a sex worker. Imagine what it's like if you're, say, Middle Eastern looking and you're talking to Sherlock Holmes in Blaine, WA.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

The US-Canada land border is really unpleasant, going either way. Canadians collectively have Stockholm syndrome, and have been trained to think that it's reasonable that they get grilled when they travel, so a partial grilling counts as magnanimity on the part of the border guard.

The border guards and security have a low success rate when it comes to actually detecting dangerous items and contraband (aside from stuff by a metal detector). So whether or not we think the questioning and invasion of privacy is okay, it doesn't seem to be accomplishing much.

The questioning might seem reasonable but if you don't fit a very standard profile you'll get effectively harsher treatment. For example, I tend to travel with my partner and because we are two males the border guards often presume that we're up to no good. We have to explain ourselves every time. I have crossed many, many times without incident (well, aside from being questioned over and over). Last year, a Canadian border guard started asking me about if I was using hookup apps and sleeping with people. Not too long ago, somebody from Vancouver was barred from entering the US because he had Grindr on his phone and the border guard took that to mean that he was a sex worker. Imagine what it's like if you're, say, Middle Eastern looking and you're talking to Sherlock Holmes in Blaine, WA.

Crossing the Canada-US border in either direction is a very stressful experience for many Canadians who are not obviously of European origin, and this was true even pre-Trump.

A lot of people I know (especially if they don't have family in the U.S.) simply avoid going to the U.S. entirely as a result.

I know a number of immigrants who are Canadian citizens who've lived in Canada for 10-15-20 years who've never set foot in the U.S.

More than you might think.

[esquire]

^ As a clean cut-looking white guy, I can confirm, if anyone actually doubts it, that the border is a place where white privilege definitely exists... it's the next best thing to having a Nexus card (as a maybe 3x a year visitor, I don't really go to the US often enough to bother applying). Other than eager CBSA agents occasionally looking into my trunk for the aforementioned cheap car parts or American beer (and even that's rare), I never get hassled at the border. Meanwhile, my friends who are not clean cut white guys seem to get hit with a fairly steady amount of hassles.

But to play the devils advocate, there is probably an objectively lower risk factor for various border shenanigans when you're dealing with a clean-cut, Canadian born white guy. So I suppose it's not without valid reason.