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  #41  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 1:38 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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I stand corrected then. This still does not make sense to me though. If you are RED, and you don't have enough confidence to building housing above downtown's first grocery store, then how would you have confidence that the store would survive? Especially with such little housing in the area? In addition, as mentioned, they sold cityScape Apartments for a record deal.

If you don't take advantages of one of the few places residents can be added in the immediate area to support your Fry's store, it's a bad investment to build the project. Fry's will cancel their lease within two years and nobody will lease a space like that downtown. Yes, I'm sure they built in heavy penalties for terminating the lease early but it won't be enough to make the project profitable. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Idiots.

I no longer support this project. Would rather see something on the scale of what's proposed in Tempe in the Roosevelt area.

BTW - I'm quite sure that Tempe project will not happen. Whole Foods is struggling mightily and is for sale.
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  #42  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 2:40 PM
nickw252 nickw252 is offline
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Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11 View Post
I stand corrected then. This still does not make sense to me though. If you are RED, and you don't have enough confidence to building housing above downtown's first grocery store, then how would you have confidence that the store would survive? Especially with such little housing in the area?
RED won't be operating the super market. It will be Fry's. It doesn't matter whether RED has "confidence that the store [will] survive." All RED needs to have confidence in is whether the building is leased, and I believe Fry's has already entered into a long-term lease.
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  #43  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 4:05 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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Originally Posted by nickw252 View Post
RED won't be operating the super market. It will be Fry's. It doesn't matter whether RED has "confidence that the store [will] survive." All RED needs to have confidence in is whether the building is leased, and I believe Fry's has already entered into a long-term lease.
Of course. But I'm sure there is a clause in the lease that Fry's would have to pay a significant amount to cancel the lease. Having said that, it's not enough to justify the building expense if Fry's closes that store. So you cannot look at it exclusively that way. Yes, RED would likely be protected for a couple years by the penalty, but that doesn't cover the long-term expense of a space that is only usable for a grocery store or big box.
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  #44  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 4:38 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Since when was this project lacking the apartments the article from last week said it's a go and it's increasitng the size of the office space
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  #45  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 5:07 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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Originally Posted by nickw252 View Post
RED won't be operating the super market. It will be Fry's. It doesn't matter whether RED has "confidence that the store [will] survive." All RED needs to have confidence in is whether the building is leased, and I believe Fry's has already entered into a long-term lease.
I don't think he said RED would be operating the supermarket, I think he said that he doesn't think Fry's will do well enough to stay open with no residents to support it. Be honest here, do you think two apartment buildings within a couple of blocks and a few hotels are enough to keep this place open outside of office hours? Not a chance.

No one can make Fry's honor their entire lease term, they may have signed a very long term lease but if they stop paying the rent and move out (or get locked out) then RED will have to attempt to pursue them for lost rents and it will go to a judge. Having 300 apartments on top of it doesn't make or break Fry's but it definitely makes it easier...

I deal with leases every day of my life, I promise you having a lease signed with Fry's provides ZERO security the store will be there any certain amount of time. And the poster above me is correct, that space will be very, very difficult to lease again.
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  #46  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 5:09 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Since when was this project lacking the apartments the article from last week said it's a go and it's increasitng the size of the office space
"Until recently, plans approved by the City call for Block 23 included the following:

• 50,000 square feet of commercial space, to include a grocery store
• About 300 high-rise residential units (RED puts that number at 330 now)
• 150,000 square feet of office space for technology- and innovation-focused tenants
• 1,000 parking spaces located above and below ground

But on April 5, the Phoenix City Council approved changes requested by the developer to allow for “greater market flexibility.” Now, development plans call for at least two of the following uses: office, commercial, or residential — instead of all three. And possible use for a hotel is specifically excluded. The new specifics look like this:

• At least 50,000 square feet of grocery store space.
• At least 150,000 square feet of office space
• Approximately 1,000 above and below ground parking spaces.

The most obvious change is removing the requirement that the project include residential units. But plans to include the grocery store remain.

“The project details in the city ordinance are a minimum requirement for the development,” Moloznik says. “The project will include a 55,000-square-foot grocery store and 200,000 square feet of office restaurant, retail.”"

- http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arts/...hoenix-9219082

I still do not necessarily think this means the apartments are canned, it just means RED is smart enough to be aware the apartments may be a bad idea and want to put themselves in the best position should they choose not to build them.
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  #47  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 9:57 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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Anyone who gets news from the Phoenix News Times needs to get their heads checked. Seriously.


Here are the FACTS in the Section 201.1 amendment:

1) Project is still described as a 'Mixed-use high-rise development project'
2) The Project still has a projected total gross square footage of approximately 500,000 square feet, NOT including parking.
3) Minimum square footage for grocery: 50,000
4) Minimum square footage for office: 150,000


Let's all put on our thinking caps here:

50,000 + 150,000 = 200,000

Which leaves 300,000 square feet.
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  #48  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 10:09 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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Originally Posted by fawd View Post

Let's all put on our thinking caps here:

50,000 + 150,000 = 200,000

Which leaves 300,000 square feet.
Lets all put our thinking caps on and understand that simple math does not indicate the uses of the square footage we are adding together.

Also, lets try not to be a little nicer to each other. Your tone was not missed.
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  #49  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 10:16 PM
airomero83 airomero83 is online now
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This new article from DPJ today references the 330 apartments. I guess we'll just have to wait and see in the next day or so. It breaks ground on the 13th and I'm sure more updates will be provided by local media coverage.

http://downtownphoenixjournal.com/20...-break-ground/
Quote:
Slated for completion in 2019, Block 23 will also include approximately 330 apartments by StreetLights Residential, 200,000 square feet of creative office space, restaurant and retail uses along with above- and below-grade parking.
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  #50  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 10:39 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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Originally Posted by airomero83 View Post
This new article from DPJ today references the 330 apartments. I guess we'll just have to wait and see in the next day or so. It breaks ground on the 13th and I'm sure more updates will be provided by local media coverage.

Guys.......... the Block 23 development 100% still includes the residential tower.

Literally talked with Moloznik (VP of RED) this morning.




DT Phoenix can definitely still support more residential units - we're not even close.
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  #51  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 10:47 PM
airomero83 airomero83 is online now
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Originally Posted by fawd View Post
Guys.......... the Block 23 development 100% still includes the residential tower.

Literally talked with Moloznik (VP of RED) this morning.




DT Phoenix can definitely still support more residential units - we're not even close.
Hell yes and I hope you're right!

Thanks for the update and stopping some of the doom and gloom scenarios that has been spreading around this project and even Barrister on the Phoenix thread lol
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  #52  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 12:01 AM
RonnieFoos RonnieFoos is offline
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Originally Posted by airomero83 View Post
Hell yes and I hope you're right!

Thanks for the update and stopping some of the doom and gloom scenarios that has been spreading around this project and even Barrister on the Phoenix thread lol
The doom and gloom scenarios have been rampant lately since the predicament of Derby's. I for one do not trust Phoenix New Times anymore than I trust Wiki for my source and I wonder how much of the article is true or simply assumption?

The boom is still happening, projects are more than likely still a go (I'm even skeptical Derby is completely dead) and we have room for more units to go Downtown and Midtown.

On a positive note, the small apartments across the street from the Phoenix Financial Center (70 E. Mitchell) have been vacated and fenced off. I'm not sure what's planned for them. Anyone have an idea?
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  #53  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 12:04 AM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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duplicate

Last edited by dtnphx; Apr 12, 2017 at 12:15 AM.
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  #54  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 12:15 AM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Some on here have a sky is falling cloud that obstructs their thinking regarding apartments. Just because you see there is a ton of apartments going up, doesn't mean we don't need more...especially in special areas, like downtown for instance. Lease up for A+ multifamily is still really hot because 222 people on average moved here, PER DAY in a one year period. It will burn out at some point, but not now.

Last edited by dtnphx; Apr 12, 2017 at 3:31 PM.
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  #55  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 1:36 AM
Phxguy Phxguy is offline
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Originally Posted by fawd View Post
Guys.......... the Block 23 development 100% still includes the residential tower.

Literally talked with Moloznik (VP of RED) this morning.




DT Phoenix can definitely still support more residential units - we're not even close.
Not that I don't believe you, I am skeptical, but did you call the VP of RED this morning? How did you possess this certainty?
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  #56  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 3:00 AM
fawd fawd is offline
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Originally Posted by Phxguy View Post
How did you possess this certainty?
Then just don't believe me?

Don't know how to make it more clear than my original post.

Last edited by fawd; Apr 12, 2017 at 3:28 AM.
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  #57  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 3:15 AM
gymratmanaz gymratmanaz is offline
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Nice info Fawd!!!! Any other insight from your conversation with Red VP?
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  #58  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 3:28 AM
fawd fawd is offline
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Originally Posted by gymratmanaz View Post
Nice info Fawd!!!! Any other insight from your conversation with Red VP?
Confirmation that first residential units are to be move-in ready EARLY 2019.

In terms of the office space, preliminary leasing information will be released early next week. So we have that to look forward to!
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  #59  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 3:38 AM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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Guys, this fella said something about Derby which also turned out to be spot on, clearly is in the industry and I'm inclined to take him for his word.
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  #60  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 5:50 AM
Phxguy Phxguy is offline
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Originally Posted by fawd View Post
Then just don't believe me?

Don't know how to make it more clear than my original post.
I didn't say I didn't believe you. The internet is full of people who claim to know it all. Can never be skeptical enough, just sayin'.
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