Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[StevenF]

I believe the exit I am thinking about is the Centerville exit off of I-15. I have noticed many times as I drive south where McDonald's and the Inn n Out signs match up. I always think it would be fun to get a picture of it, but when I am traveling I am usually driving and to busy to slow down or pull over to get a good shot. Anyone willing to take a picture next time they are traveling south bound on I-15? Just think of the new chain where you can call it Inn N McD's.

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

OK, sometimes I can be a bit obnoxious when I want to show people how high I can jump; I really didn't mean to kick your head with my foot. I'll try to be more subtle next time.

Oh no worries, and I didn't mean to phrase it like I was so offended. I just wanted to clarify that I think Trax is great for Salt Lake, and I love that UTA has been ambitious in expanding the system. I just am not to pleased by the way they've conducted themselves since the new lines opened. I think they have a social responsibility that they're ignoring.

[SLC4L]

I know this has been brought up on numerous occasions, but I'm too lazy to search for it and hopefully it'll also bring up new insights to the conversations.

Anyway, this little debate on TRAX got me looking into light rail systems in the U.S. and their ridership. I then went over to commuter rail and saw that FrontRunner only gets about 5,500 riders per day... which to me seems meager.

Boston's MBTA gets about 135,300 (ranked 5th), but obviously you have to factor in the amount of population in New England as opposed to the Wasatch Front. I also noticed, however, that they have numerous rails diverging on Boston.

So it just got me wondering whether UTA had a planned commuter rail that extends East-West, like from Park City to Tooele.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by SLC4L

I then went over to commuter rail and saw that FrontRunner only gets about 5,500 riders per day... which to me seems meager.

Boston's MBTA gets about 135,300 (ranked 5th), but obviously you have to factor in the amount of population in New England as opposed to the Wasatch Front.

Just remember that it's not fair to compare Heavy Rail with Commuter Rail (big differences in speed and frequency). The Bay Area in California has two major long distance rail systems, BART and Caltrain. BART is the heavy rail operation and has about 335,000 daily riders alone! Caltrain is the commuter rail operation and has about 42,000 daily riders. The length of the Caltrain line is much longer than what will soon be FrontRunner North and South and it moves through a much larger area in population.

I think FrontRunner will move up from having 5,800 average riders to something closer to 15,000 once FrontRunner South comes into operation. The FrontRunner station in Woods Cross is only 15 minutes away from Salt Lake City by car, but once more southern points open up then more people in places like Bountiful will see FrontRunner as more than an Ogden Train (more people in South Davis commute to Salt Lake City than to Ogden).

[SLCdude]

Originally Posted by SLC4L

So it just got me wondering whether UTA had a planned commuter rail that extends East-West, like from Park City to Tooele.

I've heard that UTA is considering extending FrontRunner North to Brigham City and South to Santaquin. I haven't heard anything about any plans to connect non-Wasatch Front cities.

The Wasatch Front is a great place for commuter rail because it has developed as a long but narrow strip that can be covered well with one single line. I've often thought about FrontRunner connecting to non Wasatch Front cities such as Logan, Park City, Heber, and Tooele. These cities would be much more complicated to connect because of the natural barriers (mountains). I would also suspect that there wouldn't be enough commuter traffic to support these connections.

I think UTA should at least study these options though.

[John Martin]

I think those extensions would be hard to justify, because, like you said, of the commuter traffic. I think they have to consider the number of passengers per mile, and I just doubt it would ever make sense financially. The recent discontinuation of their service to their northern terminus (what was it.. Pleasant View? North Ogden?) doesn't speak well for any future extensions.

I think they'd also have to have commuter buses serve any route long before considering frontrunner. They just recently started the SLC - Park City route.. I'll be curious to see how it does. I'd like to see a route to Logan at some point as well.

[chad.farnes]

I don't really care about frontfunner to Brigham City or Santaquin (although I heard that eventually it may go all the way to Nephi. However, if that does ever happen, it will be a long way off). I would love for a line to go to Park City. I too am curious how that bus route is going. I hope that it will eventually lead to Frontrunner going up there, although that will be a massive undertaking.

One interesting article that I was posted on the main Salt Lake page. Someone posted a link to the best cities in America to live without a car (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45125849...s-going_green/). Salt Lake got number 8, which is pretty impressive. However, what I thought most interesting is what they said about Salt Lake:

"Utah’s population is expected to grow from 2010’s approximately 3 million to 4.4 million in 2030. Salt Lake County accounts for more than one-third of the state’s population. To accommodate this growth, the Utah Transit Authority has plans to add four more lines to its light rail system, TRAX, up from its current three lines."

I read this about 10 times and I don't know how to interpret it. One way is that the 4 new lines would be the Draper extension, the Airport extension, Frontrunner South, and the Sugarhouse line. Although the extension to Draper and the airport are technically just extensions, may be the report thought that they were new lines. Or may be there are 4 new lines that are in the works that UTA just hasn't announced yet (and why this report would be privy to that information, I have no idea). I can't decide which arguement makes more sense (although I think the 4 lines being the lines that we already know does), however may be there are a few new lines that are currently in the works. I would be happy about that. And if the paper is forcasting towards 2030, may be there is something up UTAs sleeve that will come out soon. I would be happy about that (although, truthfully, the 2015 project needs to get finished first. Boy am I excited for that one!)

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by chad.farnes

"Utah’s population is expected to grow from 2010’s approximately 3 million to 4.4 million in 2030. Salt Lake County accounts for more than one-third of the state’s population. To accommodate this growth, the Utah Transit Authority has plans to add four more lines to its light rail system, TRAX, up from its current three lines."
... And if the paper is forcasting towards 2030, may be there is something up UTAs sleeve that will come out soon. I would be happy about that (although, truthfully, the 2015 project needs to get finished first. Boy am I excited for that one!)

I know there's been talk (which has been debated here before) of putting a TRAX line into southern Davis County.

[SLCdude]

This article is either ill-informed or outdated. I bet "four more lines" refers to the West Valley, Mid-Jordan, Airport, and Draper extensions (none of which were open prior to August 7th). Also, I highly doubt a national news source would know about a proposed TRAX line before we do.

Originally Posted by Stenar

I know there's been talk (which has been debated here before) of putting a TRAX line into southern Davis County.

That's actually a proposed streetcar line.

[Old&New]

I don't think the mode has been decided yet.

[skyguy414]

US Airways announced they will commence nonstop service between Salt Lake and their Charlotte, NC hub with one daily flight beginning in March. This will compliment the existing flights from Salt Lake to US Airways' Phoenix hub. Charlotte is US Airways largest hub and will offer more convenient connecting opportunities to the East coast, Caribbean, and Europe.

This route used to be flown with Delta until they merged with Northwest and removed a lot of their redundant routes. I'll almost bet Delta will respond with by starting this route again.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by SLCdude

That's actually a proposed streetcar line.

I knew the second I posted that, someone would say that it was going to be a streetcar. First of all, as Old&New pointed out, both have been discussed.

Most importantly, when the Sugar House streetcar and others come online, I think they'll probably call them TRAX, as I doubt they're going to make a big distinction between light rail cars and streetcars in the naming system.

So, either way it'd be a TRAX line.

[Cornhusker]

Originally Posted by skyguy414

US Airways announced they will commence nonstop service between Salt Lake and their Charlotte, NC hub with one daily flight beginning in March. This will compliment the existing flights from Salt Lake to US Airways' Phoenix hub. Charlotte is US Airways largest hub and will offer more convenient connecting opportunities to the East coast, Caribbean, and Europe.

This route used to be flown with Delta until they merged with Northwest and removed a lot of their redundant routes. I'll almost bet Delta will respond with by starting this route again.

This is great news. Hopefully the flight will work out for everyone, SLC, CLT, and US Airways. It just seems like Delta has a strong hold on the SLC market, and with that, it makes other airlines have limited service to SLC.

I would like to see the following flights offered to SLC. I think some of them have a very good chance of happening :

Honolulu-SLC on Hawaiian Airlines (already flown by Delta)

Newark-SLC on United (already flown by Delta)

Philadelphia-SLC on US Airways (already flown by Delta)

Miami-SLC on American (not currently served)

Boston-SLC on JetBlue (currently flown by Delta)

Seattle-SLC on Alaska Airlines (currently flown by Delta; Alaska codshares with Delta on this route already-not a good chance of this ever happening )

Atlanta-SLC on Southwest (already flown by Delta with about 8 daily flights; I think this flight has a very good chance of happening )

Toronto-SLC on Air Canada (both Air Canada and Delta tried this a few years ago; I think AC would have success this time around )

Amsterdam-SLC on either KLM or Delta (This one is VERY interesting to me, and I think it has an overall good chance of happening. KLM is a Skyteam member, so codsharing would help. I don't know if this flight would hurt the current Paris-SLC flight though. I've heard rumors and talk about Delta studying and looking to see if SLC could sustain another European flight. I think this route would be a great seasonal flight! )

San Jose, Costa Rica-SLC on Delta (I think this route could be a great seasonal route for both Delta and SLC; SLC would offer great connectivity for this flight)

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by scottharding

Trax really needs to work out some problems with the West Jordan line. As you said, it is not running on schedule, and it has killed two people since opening. The most recent was when a truck drove around the guard arms, a stupid move, of course, but according to the reports the guards arms had been down for more than 15 minutes without a train passing.
UTA has some serious PR problems now. They need to work that shit out before they open the airport line.

It`s not exactly the West Jordan stretch with problems. I was delayed 20 minutes down town on South Temple while on an outbound Green-Line Train, 15 min on an inbound Blue-Line train around State and 7800 S, and over 30 min at the Fashion Place West station waiting for an outbound Red-Line Train coming from the University. It looks to me like the problems are system-wide.

I hope they`re just "growing pains" in the system because it has really got me rethinking my transportation options. I am actually a rather patient person and I can completely understand a problem here or there. But 3 major delays in just two weeks?? That`s really got me thinking if I should renew my pass for next year.

Originally Posted by John Martin

Obviously a major disadvantage of being on tracks is that one delay can have a chain reaction, and one accident can basically shut down the whole system. I know it didn't shut down in the recent accident, but it was a major delay to everyone. Otherwise I've noticed TRAX to be generally off-schedule despite maintaining frequency (15 minutes).

I personally prefer taking buses when I have the choice. They're more direct and take less time than TRAX to the places I need to go. UTA's buses are nice and smooth as well, not to mention generally uncrowded. Unfortunately they're so infrequent that if a bus is early and you miss one, you've basically got to find another way to get where you want to go. If a bus is 30 minutes late.. well, by that point I probably would've assumed it had left already.

I have a UTA schedule app on my phone, and it's generally pretty useful for buses, but does UTA have a live system tracker yet for any platform? That's one thing it desperately needs, along with later weekend hours.

I completely agree - I prefer UTA buses over the trains. I also like how they have much dimmer lighting so you don`t feel like you`re on an operating table like you do on the new trains.

That would be great if they had an ap with live delay warnings! Then you could at least find something to do instead of waiting in the cold on a platform or inside a train for 20-30 minutes.

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

Nope!

Western transit agencies will ALWAYS have competition with freeways to a much higher degree than transit agencies on the east coast, and therefore, they are always more comfortable and smell less like piss.

I definitely agree that UTA has plenty of competition - even if not from other public transportation agencies. I have noticed that the Salt Lake area has a very great road infrastructure on par with that of its mass-transit. Since I get out of school in the early afternoon, I can beet rush hour traffic if I drive down town. If I were to drive home at freeway speeds, I can get there in 30 minutes. If all goes well on TRAX, I can make it in 45 min. But on a day like the one that took me 1 hr and 20 min to get home, the half hour sounds a lot more attractive to me - even if I have to pay more in gas, insurance, etc.

I truly prefer clean mass-transit options over cars due to my tree-huger tendencies. But you know what they say, "time is money." I`m thinking that I might start driving on days where my schedule is more restricted - then taking the train on the days that don`t matter if it takes me 3x longer to get home.

As much as I believe in helping the environment, I am a firm believer in the free market. As a consumer, I can choose which transportation option I will use. If TRAX does not fit my needs, then I will take my business elsewhere. If they don`t get their act together soon, I just might jump ship.

[CountyLemonade]

One must remember that people like the bicyclist today in West Valley, the suicidal elderly man, the homeless person by the library, the suicidal middle-aged woman and the myopic tow truck driver will always be around to cause delays in the system. While I certainly sympathize with those who have little time to be wasted, there are just certain problems that the UTA cannot fix. It can do better; some delays are simply due to signal issues, train problems, etc. But when some maniac chooses to take his own life on a three-line section of track (causing much emotional scarring to the train conductor and other witnesses in the process), delays are inevitable.

[SLCdude]

Amen!

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by CountyLemonade

One must remember that people like the bicyclist today in West Valley, the suicidal elderly man, the homeless person by the library, the suicidal middle-aged woman and the myopic tow truck driver will always be around to cause delays in the system. While I certainly sympathize with those who have little time to be wasted, there are just certain problems that the UTA cannot fix. It can do better; some delays are simply due to signal issues, train problems, etc. But when some maniac chooses to take his own life on a three-line section of track (causing much emotional scarring to the train conductor and other witnesses in the process), delays are inevitable.

Absolutely you are right about those circumstances. However, UTA shares the blame in two of the fatalities this year. Delays are annoying, but death is intolerable when it can be prevented. If the Tribune is to be believed, the circumstances that caused the deaths were brought to UTA's attention before the incidents, and UTA ignored the warnings. That's where my anger comes from. I can understand growing pains with new lines. Hell, that's inevitable, and people need to be more cautious as well, as they share blame in their own sad demise.

[SLC4L]

Originally Posted by (Eco)nomy_404

That would be great if they had an ap with live delay warnings! Then you could at least find something to do instead of waiting in the cold on a platform or inside a train for 20-30 minutes.

They actually have a Twitter page that tweets any delays and usually how long they'll be. I check it just before I head out in the morning and so far have had no problems. Even if you don't want to "tweet," it might be a good idea to get an account just to follow them and check it on your phone.

[Lilljemalm]

Originally Posted by SLC4L

They actually have a Twitter page that tweets any delays and usually how long they'll be. I check it just before I head out in the morning and so far have had no problems. Even if you don't want to "tweet," it might be a good idea to get an account just to follow them and check it on your phone.

Even if there are delays and glitches to be worked out, at least you have a system. Here in Phoenix, we pretty much have nothing worth while. We do have one light rail line that sits almost entirely on city streets so it can't get any real speed. Then there is no real bus system to speak of.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by CountyLemonade

One must remember that people like the bicyclist today in West Valley, the suicidal elderly man, the homeless person by the library, the suicidal middle-aged woman and the myopic tow truck driver will always be around to cause delays in the system. While I certainly sympathize with those who have little time to be wasted, there are just certain problems that the UTA cannot fix. It can do better; some delays are simply due to signal issues, train problems, etc. But when some maniac chooses to take his own life on a three-line section of track (causing much emotional scarring to the train conductor and other witnesses in the process), delays are inevitable.

I guess what really got me that day was when I called in and the UTA operator didn`t even know there was a delay - much less how long it would be. I had been standing on the platform a good 20 min after the first scheduled train was supposed to depart and UTA was still "unaware" of the delay. She put me on hold for a few minutes just to come back and tell me what I already knew - she confirmed that the train had indeed been delayed. They either have terrible internal communication or are trying to hide info from the public. Either way, it pisses me off!