Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[buzzg]

They just recently poured a transit queue lane at the Pembina underpass, and it is VERY RED. Like waaaaay more red than even when the existing ones were first poured. They also did the curbs in red.

[michelleb]

Dutch cyclepaths typically, if not exclusively, use red asphalt for their bike lanes which is far more reasonably priced and permanent than the green enamel-epoxy painted on top. But North American cities just insist on reinventing the wheel, no pun intended.

[DancingDuck]

Went to the first of the Route 90 community consultation things tonight, LOTS of opposition to the plan, for all sorts of reasons... Some didn't like the cost, most were opposed to the new left turn from westbound Portage, and almost every single person mentioned that as long as the stoplights stay it won't really be any faster. From what I heard it seemed like people weren't against the expansion itself but that they think it could be done better.

I was encouraged be the fact that lots of people were supportive of the bike/active transportation paths, and surprised that people were pushing for raised pedestrian crosswalks instead of regular ones, one woman even said "spend the extra millions and put in three or four". One of the city people even mentioned that transit stops will have a seperate cutout for the buses to pull into.

Of course a couple people said all the intersections should be full on diamond or cloverleaf interchanges, but the city and designers were very clear that that was not some being considered.

I feel bad for those hosting the community engagement meetings next week because those are going to be hostile...

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by DancingDuck

Went to the first of the Route 90 community consultation things tonight, LOTS of opposition to the plan, for all sorts of reasons... Some didn't like the cost, most were opposed to the new left turn from westbound Portage, and almost every single person mentioned that as long as the stoplights stay it won't really be any faster. From what I heard it seemed like people weren't against the expansion itself but that they think it could be done better.

I was encouraged be the fact that lots of people were supportive of the bike/active transportation paths, and surprised that people were pushing for raised pedestrian crosswalks instead of regular ones, one woman even said "spend the extra millions and put in three or four". One of the city people even mentioned that transit stops will have a seperate cutout for the buses to pull into.

Of course a couple people said all the intersections should be full on diamond or cloverleaf interchanges, but the city and designers were very clear that that was not some being considered.

I feel bad for those hosting the community engagement meetings next week because those are going to be hostile...

As they should be, if you take part in the design of something as flawed as this then you should receive the push back it deserves. They felt the need to make this project their own and over complicate it when all they needed to do was make the on and off ramps slightly better and widen the lanes.

[buzzg]

The new bike lanes on Pembina south of the underpass as built raised, immediately along the sidewalk. Looks great, and I think it's a good design. It does however appear that they're only like that until Point Rd, where they come back on the street.

Since the plastic bollards/pylons clearly didn't work out to well, I wonder if the city will look at putting the new movable curbs along these lanes where there's long stretches, or high likelihood of collisions? It struck me as odd that they only put in (permanent) curbs on Pembina from Confusion > Grant where they allow parking. There's lots of areas that aren't protected with high chance of collisions.

This stretch north of Grant could really use them, especially here as you approach the yield – even though the lane is now painted, almost every car drives in it when turning – likely not even checking for bikes.

They should also be putting in curbs on the other side near Grant, as traffic turning from Grant didn't have bike lanes, so it's important to make it clear they exist.

[bomberjet]

I noticed there are new white pylons installed along Pembina where they were destroyed. The City should put in moveable curbs where possible instead of those. But it becomes difficult when there's driveways every 10' along the way..

[buzzg]

Must have just happened because when I went to the Bomber game there were almost none left. I think anywhere where there's ~15+ ft between cuts, they should put them there. If someone pulling in or out of a parking lot entrance can't see the curb (which should have green bollards on it) then they're likely also not paying attention for cyclists.

They put a permanent curb here which is the size of two cars, 20 ft max, so no reason they shouldn't be able to do the same with temps.

[MG922]

Originally Posted by buzzg

The new bike lanes on Pembina south of the underpass as built raised, immediately along the sidewalk. Looks great, and I think it's a good design. It does however appear that they're only like that until Point Rd, where they come back on the street.

From Point road to McGillivray won't have any bike specific infrastructure for some time. It was just re-paved 2 or 3 years ago, and they didn't add bike lanes. Apparently not enough budget for the job. And this was after they started adding bike lanes to pembina further south. Missed opportunity to complete the bike lanes for all of pembina

[rivercity]

I anticipate the bike lane is adjacent to the sidewalk to allow for safer merging for cars going WB Jubilee to SB Pembina

[vjose32]

They should do for pedestrians what they did on the Chief, bridges. And the Academy intersection seemed like overkill and why block west Academy altogether? There’s still going to be lights there and all? What they should do at Academy is eliminate the lights altogether. Flyover for south onto Academy similar to now but without lights at Academy and off ramp the other way. North on route 90 would just be right turn only like it is and no left or straight through any direction on Academy. Would be much better imo.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by MG922

From Point road to McGillivray won't have any bike specific infrastructure for some time. It was just re-paved 2 or 3 years ago, and they didn't add bike lanes. Apparently not enough budget for the job. And this was after they started adding bike lanes to pembina further south. Missed opportunity to complete the bike lanes for all of pembina

Sorry had my streets mixed a bit – the sidewalk-level bike lanes end SB at Byng and NB at Calorssie – both directions are buffered on-street to Point Rd. I wouldn't be surprised if the gaps from Grant to Taylor, and Point – [wherever the rest starts] get going soon as this project wraps up.

One question I'm not sure if we've really discussed before – would it really be impossible to just expand the sidewalks on the Bishop bridge, like they did on Osborne, to make room for bikes? I can't imagine it being more than building an entirely new AT bridge over Bishop – plus it's WAY more practical... it's so absurd to make all the bike traffic from Pembina go way over to the new AT bridge to cross. Especially NB – you would have to cross Pembina to get to the new bridge, then cross back on the other side.

Originally Posted by rivercity

I anticipate the bike lane is adjacent to the sidewalk to allow for safer merging for cars going WB Jubilee to SB Pembina

Yeah definitely – just seems like a much better design though that I'm curious why they don't just do that the whole way. Most bike lanes in Vancouver are at sidewalk level and just ramp up & down at intersections.

Originally Posted by vjose32

They should do for pedestrians what they did on the Chief, bridges. And the Academy intersection seemed like overkill and why block west Academy altogether? There’s still going to be lights there and all? What they should do at Academy is eliminate the lights altogether. Flyover for south onto Academy similar to now but without lights at Academy and off ramp the other way. North on route 90 would just be right turn only like it is and no left or straight through any direction on Academy. Would be much better imo.

I don't think you really need to provide access to west Academy, but like the rest of your idea.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by buzzg

One question I'm not sure if we've really discussed before – would it really be impossible to just expand the sidewalks on the Bishop bridge, like they did on Osborne, to make room for bikes? I can't imagine it being more than building an entirely new AT bridge over Bishop – plus it's WAY more practical... it's so absurd to make all the bike traffic from Pembina go way over to the new AT bridge to cross. Especially NB – you would have to cross Pembina to get to the new bridge, then cross back on the other side.

I believe this was discussed on the RT/AT thread a while back. The AT bridge over bishop is for the transitway bike path and is associated with that project. Not related to Pembina.

The Pembina bridge over Bishop can't accomodate a bike lane. As it is the sidewalks on the bridge are quite narrow. Adding a bike path will be considered when the bridge is up for its rehab, early 2020s.

Once the AT bridge by the transitway will be completed, they will recommend cyclists use that bridge instead of staying on Pembina until the rehab is done on the pembina bridge. That is quite the detour on bike

[buzzg]

Except wasn't the AT bridge cancelled?

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Except wasn't the AT bridge cancelled?

No it's well underway right now, on the west side of the train bridge over bishop. There was a proposed AT bridge that was supposed to cross Pembina to make the bishop grandin greenway continuous rather than force cyclists and other users to cross pembina. (Spanning from the petrocan/a&w to barley brothers). That has been shelved for the time being.

[buzzg]

Ahhh ok.

[buzzg]

Why is Pembina Dodge allowed to have no fencing on any side of their parking lot? If they were somehow grandfathered from decades ago, why didn’t the city work with them to put fences up when they redid the street and sidewalks? They have cars peaked 2-3 feet onto the sidewalk all around – it’s awful. I also don’t understand why the city let them keep the northernmost driveway on Pembina (always has display cars blocking it, cuts through bike lane) when they have THREE other entrances, one of which is 20 ft south.

[buzzg]

Painting is done withing most of the Bannatyne/McD bike lanes now. Still nothing at intersections or signage. This is Bannatyne between King & Princess. It's a full vehicle lane, yet for some reason they've blocked off half of it (with paint), even though the bike lane is adjacent to the through lane, not parking. Seems odd.

When I first saw it, thought maybe it's so they could paint in a bike left turn lane at Princess, but this goes right to the intersection. Anyone know what the thinking is here?

Was also thinking – it's too bad east of Main the streets are narrower, as west of main the bike lanes are getting full-size vehicle lanes – more than enough room to have two-way bike traffic.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Painting is done withing most of the Bannatyne/McD bike lanes now. Still nothing at intersections or signage. This is Bannatyne between King & Princess. It's a full vehicle lane, yet for some reason they've blocked off half of it (with paint), even though the bike lane is adjacent to the through lane, not parking. Seems odd.

When I first saw it, thought maybe it's so they could paint in a bike left turn lane at Princess, but this goes right to the intersection. Anyone know what the thinking is here?

Was also thinking – it's too bad east of Main the streets are narrower, as west of main the bike lanes are getting full-size vehicle lanes – more than enough room to have two-way bike traffic.

Since its a full lane wide, maybe just to make it blatantly obvious you can't be driving through here?

[bomberjet]

Seems to me it's a visual buffer from the roadway if the curb wasn't obvious enough.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Since its a full lane wide, maybe just to make it blatantly obvious you can't be driving through here?

I'm sure you'll still find the od person drive in there. The lane on assiniboine has the odd person make that mistake. At least these curbs are more pronounced.