Stronger ties -- Mexican-US border cities or Canadian-US border cities?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Are there similar cases in Canada? Perhaps when non-urban or rural NDP-voters go populist right, for example the former Reform party (when people ask whether or not Canada could have an analogous situation with Trump support)?

But Preston Manning was the total opposite of the blowhard Trump.

[Capsicum]

Going back to the topic about cross-border areas in Canada and the US, one place with a very cross-border sounding name is International Falls, MN, with Fort Frances, Ontario on the other side. However, both towns have small populations, several thousands each.

So, despite its very international-sounding name, it doesn't appear on the radar of most big city Americans and Canadians relative to the other big border crossings.

International Falls and Fort Frances is still a distance away from larger Canadian and US cities like Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, Duluth, Fargo, Grand Forks etc.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Vancouver is a mostly chinese city now with little in common with seattle.

Even though Vancouver and Seattle both have had Chinese immigration going back to the 19th century, modern day Seattle has far fewer people of Chinese descent (and Asian descent in general). Vancouver is much more similar to the Bay Area in proportion of Asian descent and even more so.

"As of the 2010 United States Census, there were 45,018 Chinese Americans living in King County, including 3,088 who identified themselves as Taiwanese."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ans_in_Seattle

"As of 2011 there are over 450,000 Chinese in Greater Vancouver."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chines...ater_Vancouver

So, for those of specifically Chinese ancestry, Vancouver's metro area has ten times as many as Seattle's metro area.

The city of Seattle is about 13% Asian descent in general. Vancouver has half it's population of Asian origins.

I think Vancouver had more people of Asian descent than Seattle for a fair part of the 20th century.

[Steely Dan]

^^ despite sharing a border that's over 450 miles long, minnesota and canada only have 8 border crossings between them (3 to ontario and 5 to manitoba).

i would have expected more, but the border up that way goes through some rather vast stretches of uninhabited watery wilderness in the boundary waters/quetico area.

[Capsicum]

In general, it seems like the US side of many of the bigger cross-border areas (eg. Vancouver-Seattle, Toronto-Niagara Falls-Buffalo, Detroit-Windsor) has a far less recent immigration history (especially those whose European immigrant origins like Italians, Polish etc. were pre-1950s or 60s), since most later immigrants went to bigger cities afterwards. But on the Canadian side, most of the cities have far more post 1960s and 70s immigrants.

That probably leads to differences in family ties/connections.

Then there are the border areas like Quebec/the Maritimes/New England where there were lots of cross-border immigration pre 1960s or 1970s, but not a lot of international migration from overseas, for many generations, on either side for a while to begin with.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^^ despite sharing a border that's over 450 miles long, minnesota and canada only have 8 border crossings between them (3 to ontario and 5 to manitoba).

i would have expected more, but the border up that way goes through some rather vast stretches of uninhabited watery wilderness in the boundary waters/quetico area.

It's also interesting that people think of Minnesotans are stereotypically Canadian-like in personality (and accent), even though that cross-border area is not near where most Canadians live.

People in the US will think of the "Canadian accent" as being much more like a Minnesotan one or a "Fargo" one, but geographically that's really far from the Quebec-Windsor corridor where 50% of Canadians live.

Anglo-Canadians will not be perceived as sounding like many of the Americans living nearer the Windsor-Quebec corridor. Upstate New York, Midwestern accents are far less similar.

I wonder why that is.

[Sun Belt]

^I can spot a Toronto or any other Canadian accent right away.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

^I can spot a Toronto or any other Canadian accent right away.

I can only spot an Alberta or Manitoba accent.

[Shawn]

You’ll definitely see strong awareness of Canada - especially Quebec - everywhere in New England outside of the standard New England exception: Fairfield County CT. There are three basic reasons: obvious border proximity, Acadians make up substantial percentages of all 6 New England states, and Québécois love to summer holiday in New England and we love to have them down.

Also, Bs vs Habs, and it seems like everyone knows at least one relative or kid from high school who went to McGill.

[Acajack]

I believe that the name "Canuck" which many Canadians today use as a (positive) name for themselves similar to Aussie or Kiwi, originated in New England as a racist slur for French Canadians.

A lot of people with a more rudimentary grasp of geography in the NE US actually think that Canada is a predominantly French-speaking country.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I believe that the name "Canuck" which many Canadians today use as a (positive) name for themselves similar to Aussie or Kiwi, originated in New England as a racist slur for French Canadians.

A lot of people with a more rudimentary grasp of geography in the NE US actually think that Canada is a predominantly French-speaking country.

Well, clearly by the time the Canucks team name existed, it was no longer derogatory, or associated only with French Canadians.

The Vancouver Canucks vs. the Habs both have team names that choose to represent "Canadian-ness" in a sense, though the Habs nickname obviously hark back to the older connotations of being Canadian.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Shawn

There are three basic reasons: obvious border proximity, Acadians make up substantial percentages of all 6 New England states, and Québécois love to summer holiday in New England and we love to have them down.

Are the French-descent New Englanders more descended from Acadians or from Quebec itself?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A lot of people with a more rudimentary grasp of geography in the NE US actually think that Canada is a predominantly French-speaking country.

In my experiences talking to many with little experience of Canada, some people outside Canada either grossly overestimate or grossly underestimate the French language's influence in Canada.

You find people totally unaware about the presence of French at all.

Then you have people who think that French dominates totally coast to coast, and that they worry about whether you'd have to learn French to communicate well in Vancouver or something.

[Pedestrian]

My Arizona house is in an interesting area because there are plenty of Hispanics and Spanish is spoken almost everywhere--we are 40 miles north of Mexico--but my neighborhood is full of homeowners who are retired Canadians and you see BC and Ontario (and less often other province) tags on lots of cars. For the first 5 years or so I owned my place I got Canadian tax forms in the mail every year because apparently a former owner or renter was Canadian.

[LMich]

Originally Posted by Acajack

An important piece of the puzzle that jumps out at me as missing there is labour.

Sure, the leadership of big labour in the U.S. was for Sanders (and later perhaps begrudgingly for Clinton) but the rank and file workers who are the ones who actually mark ballots largely defected from the Democratic side and went with Trump.

Not to get too much further off topic, but while there was a significant defection to the GOP in 2016, the Dem presidential candidate still very much won labor union househoulds.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-ap...ion.jpg&w=1484

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

In my experiences talking to many with little experience of Canada, some people outside Canada either grossly overestimate or grossly underestimate the French language's influence in Canada.

You find people totally unaware about the presence of French at all.

Then you have people who think that French dominates totally coast to coast, and that they worry about whether you'd have to learn French to communicate well in Vancouver or something.

Yes, I have encountered all of that in my lifetime.

[ThePhun1]

We get the same thing about Texas accents. People either stereotype it way too much or think it's non-existent.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Are the French-descent New Englanders more descended from Acadians or from Quebec itself?

There are about 20 times more francophones in Quebec than there are Acadians in the Maritimes, so obviously that population is overwhelmingly of Québécois origins.

Due to proximity with New Brunswick you have a higher proportion of Acadians in a state like Maine, but even there it's Québécois surnames that predominate.

The Acadian presence among the Franco-American population slowly recedes as you move west, and by the Boston area it's mostly gone.

One notable New Englander of Acadian origin is actor Matt LeBlanc of "Friends" fame. I think he's from the Boston area. A relative of his is a friend of my mom's.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

In general, it seems like the US side of many of the bigger cross-border areas (eg. Vancouver-Seattle, Toronto-Niagara Falls-Buffalo, Detroit-Windsor) has a far less recent immigration history (especially those whose European immigrant origins like Italians, Polish etc. were pre-1950s or 60s), since most later immigrants went to bigger cities afterwards. But on the Canadian side, most of the cities have far more post 1960s and 70s immigrants.

That probably leads to differences in family ties/connections.

While mainly true for my region, both Windsor and Detroit (especially Dearborn) have had a huge wave of immigrants from the Middle East. Dearborn has the largest Arab population outside of the Middle East, and in Windsor, Arabic is now the second most spoken language after English, and arabs are the largest minority in the city.

Many immigrants from the Middle East pick Windsor when immigrating to Canada because they also have family members who are now in Detroit, and they want to be as close to them as possible. Both sides of the border now have very large and flourishing Arabic communities, with a lot of interaction between them!

So really, family ties between the two cities are as strong as ever, just different ethnicities now. Windsor, though is definitely more multicultural than Detroit nowadays!

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by north 42

While mainly true for my region, both Windsor and Detroit (especially Dearborn) have had a huge wave of immigrants from the Middle East. Dearborn has the largest Arab population outside of the Middle East, and in Windsor, Arabic is now the second most spoken language after English, and arabs are the largest minority in the city.

Many immigrants from the Middle East pick Windsor when immigrating to Canada because they also have family members who are now in Detroit, and they want to be as close to them as possible. Both sides of the border now have very large and flourishing Arabic communities, with a lot of interaction between them!

So really, family ties between the two cities are as strong as ever, just different ethnicities now. Windsor, though is definitely more multicultural than Detroit nowadays!

On Dearborn...by percentage or raw numbers?