The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread

[mistercorporate]

A surprising number of young people watch curling even in Toronto, the only thing i like about it is the hot chicks though. I can understand its appeal if you're really really bored, kind of like baseball.

[Hackslack]

What kind of ratings does darts get? I have a hard time tuning in to darts. I’m not sure why I see it consistently on TV

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Young people have a funny habit of eventually getting old

Seriously, it's like golf. Go ask the typical 65 year old golf viewer whether they watched golf 40 years ago.

I generally agree but interest in certain things can be lost over generations. This could happen to curling in Canada especially since it has no cred in the US.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I generally agree but interest in certain things can be lost over generations. This could happen to curling in Canada especially since it has no cred in the US.

Curling is generally one of the most popular Olympic viewing sports, globally.

Little known fact

“Somewhere over half of NBC’s entire coverage package of the Olympics is going to be curling,” said Kevin Martin, who will be in Pyeongchang as a colour commentator. “It’s absolutely amazing.

“CBC told me that in Canada 45% of their overall hours of coverage of the entire Olympics will be curling. When CBC told me that, I thought, ‘Well, I wonder how much it is at NBC?’ So I was talking to Jim Carr, one of the producers, and he said it’s around 50%, maybe a hair over 50%. That’s quite the number.”

[elly63]

Curl power: Olympic sport is sweeping up fans
Due to Games, ‘shuffleboard on ice’ is drawing fans in bars, Google searches
Mike Celizic TODAY contributor 2/25/2010

For four years at a time, curling is played with great dedication in various countries around the world and no one notices. But during the Olympics, when entire broadcasting days are given over to matches on NBC’s sister networks USA, CNBC and MSNBC, the sport becomes a favorite.

Everybody wants to watch it — even in bars.

“It’s Friday night. Basketball games are on, and people want to watch curling,” said Gust Hookanson, co-owner of the Lion’s Head bar on Manhattan’s Upper West Side. “We have people that are requesting televisions — multiple televisions — to watch curling. Not the small sets on the side, but the big flat screens over the bar.”

Hookanson obliges the paying customers; a happy crowd is a profitable crowd. But the phenomenal popularity of curling with the viewing public caught him by surprise.

“I’m scratching my head,” he told TODAY. “It’s shuffleboard on ice.”

But when he thinks about it, it becomes clear. “People look at it and say, ‘Hey, I can do that. It’s like bowling,’ ” Hookanson said.

As people watch, they get out their smartphones to find out what the origin and rules of the game are on Google, Hookanson said. The statistics bear him out: Google reported this week that curling is the most-searched Olympic sport, beating out even women’s figure skating.

Full article

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by esquire

Young people have a funny habit of eventually getting old

Seriously, it's like golf. Go ask the typical 65 year old golf viewer whether they watched golf 40 years ago.

True but I do think the culture is changing. These young basketball/soccer fans might turn to golf instead of curling when they get older. That said, I can't sit through more than 2 minutes of golf either.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

A surprising number of young people watch curling even in Toronto, the only thing i like about it is the hot chicks though. I can understand its appeal if you're really really bored, kind of like baseball.

Baseball is all about the ritual of sitting at the ball park on a nice summer day, eating a hotdog, and drinking a beer while something cerebral happens on the field. It also appeals to analytical people who love statistics.

I didn't get baseball for years but kept going because it was a nice way to spend a lazy afternoon with friends. To my surprise after 5 years I'd become accustomed to the ritual, looked forward to going, knew who the players were, and started appreciating some the intricacies of the game.

There's a reason MLB draws 73 million in attendance. No other league or sport comes close. For comparison's sake, the NBA draws 22 million, NFL draws 18 million, and the Premier League draws 14.5 million fans/season.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by isaidso

There's a reason MLB draws 73 million in attendance. No other league or sport comes close. For comparison's sake, the NBA draws 22 million, NFL draws 18 million, and the Premier League draws 14.5 million fans/season.

Well 30 teams having 81 home games plays a big factor in MLB's total attendance numbers.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Well 30 teams having 81 home games plays a big factor in MLB's total attendance numbers.

And they can sustain those numbers so that says something as to the game's popularity.

[elly63]

Seems to be a lot of ignorance about curling here. Just because it might be not in our own personal sphere of influence doesn't mean it isn't out there.

Someone mentioned hot chicks, well there used to be an old wrestling promoter axiom, where there are hot young chicks there are young guys so you want to attract young chicks with your product. It seems to me that curling is positioning itself like women's tennis and golf regarding sexuality, intentional or not.

Curling is popular enough that they added another Olympic event (which worked to the advantage of Canada this past Olympics)

It's not the same game I grew up with and that's cool because I like them both

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Curling is generally one of the most popular Olympic viewing sports, globally.

Little known fact

“Somewhere over half of NBC’s entire coverage package of the Olympics is going to be curling,” said Kevin Martin, who will be in Pyeongchang as a colour commentator. “It’s absolutely amazing.

“CBC told me that in Canada 45% of their overall hours of coverage of the entire Olympics will be curling. When CBC told me that, I thought, ‘Well, I wonder how much it is at NBC?’ So I was talking to Jim Carr, one of the producers, and he said it’s around 50%, maybe a hair over 50%. That’s quite the number.”

Perhaps I should rephrase then. Curling could have trouble renewing its fan base in Canada because Canadians don't *think* Americans or anyone else pays attention to the sport.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Perhaps I should rephrase then. Curling could have trouble renewing its fan base in Canada because Canadians don't *think* Americans or anyone else pays attention to the sport.

I see where you're going with this, but I think it's not entirely accurate. It's not like curling's openly big here either, so I doubt those that do watch it do it for the cool factor.

I don't see the young generation watching less hockey either, even if the US doesn't care about it. The NBA still isn't popular at all outside of Toronto, relative to football or baseball or hockey. I've argued before that the NFL competes with the NHL now (at least in my anecdotal circles) but it's still close. I think Canadians care about what Americans like, and I think they care about what's big time and what's not (like with the CFL and NFL). But I don't think they try to emulate American tastes to a tee, not even the younger generation.

Hockey's gonna lose stature, as is curling, but it's not gonna disappear, and the same goes for our other cultural markers too. I don't think we'll get to a point where we consume entertainment exactly in the same ways that the Americans do. At least, not that soon.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Baseball is all about the ritual of sitting at the ball park on a nice summer day, eating a hotdog, and drinking a beer while something cerebral happens on the field. It also appeals to analytical people who love statistics.

I didn't get baseball for years but kept going because it was a nice way to spend a lazy afternoon with friends. To my surprise after 5 years I'd become accustomed to the ritual, looked forward to going, knew who the players were, and started appreciating some the intricacies of the game.

There's a reason MLB draws 73 million in attendance. No other league or sport comes close. For comparison's sake, the NBA draws 22 million, NFL draws 18 million, and the Premier League draws 14.5 million fans/season.

Baseball doss not translate well on TV, the sport is best taken in live in person as you mentioned.

Baseball doss have 80 home dates so it bloats up its attendance numbers but what is impressive is that a league average of about 28k is sustained over such a long stretch of games.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't see the young generation watching less hockey either, even if the US doesn't care about it. .

Hockey interest does seem to be slowly going down, even if the U.S. does care enough about it to make it seem "big time" to Canadians who care about such things.

I obviously agree that hockey won't die out, and nor will curling.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't think we'll get to a point where we consume entertainment exactly in the same ways that the Americans do. At least, not that soon.

In some cases, it's pretty darn close already, wouldn't you say?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I see where you're going with this, but I think it's not entirely accurate. It's not like curling's openly big here either, so I doubt those that do watch it do it for the cool factor.

.

In much of the country, curling's pretty big. People have posted recently about how it's been lucrative bread and butter content for TV networks, and over the years people have posted TV ratings that top 1 million which is excellent in Canada.

It doesn't rival for top spot but it's up there perhaps arguably in the top 5 spectator sports in Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I think Canadians care about what Americans like, and I think they care about what's big time and what's not (like with the CFL and NFL). But I don't think they try to emulate American tastes to a tee, not even the younger generation.
.

It's hard to distinguish between your two points, when I am out there in the real world.

For as long as I can remember, there is often a "eeewww" factor associated with anything that people perceive as being only popular in Canada. Vindication via popularity in the U.S. (or, lately, globally) is required in order for certain Canadians to take an interest in something homegrown.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by osmo

RE: Beer Prices

That is the issue you get when you chase budget fans and families, nobody should go to a sports game and expecting rock bottom beer prices as you are typically getting gouged for food and beverages. Very silly this is brought up as an issue from fans. Also, the Toronto model should not be used as an example to emulate as they are A/B testing various strategies to get people into the seats.

Overall splitting the marketing strategies for the major metros versus the rest of the CFL markets is wise. The Big 3 cities face unique challenges which are focused primarily on demographics that the rest of the league does not share.

Next, the international approach is unique and not one I have heard. My only hesitation is that we see the behemoth of the NFL struggle to "grow the game" internationally. Japan is used as an example as I recall they have some smaller leagues creeping up getting teens on the football field. The core issue is that for many international locations, where it extends beyond casual watching on TV, you get into teens playing "Gridiron American Football" with 4 downs and typical field sizes. In many places, they simply just paint the line on a soccer field and calls it a day, won't be easy to shift CFL infrastructure to overseas. If the goal is just to market a sports entertainment product then that is much different. From the NFL's experience, they were not able to flip over markets until the locals actually had enough grasp of the sport and made attempts to play. Germany, for example, is the strongest football market outside of North America as they have a (now) tradition of little leagues where people are playing actual Gridiron football. When the NFL experimented with the Euro League Germany was the only place that got any traction.

I bring up the NFL of course as they have attempted (and failed) many times are growing the international scope of the league. They are doubling down on London but I don't see anything there. NFL is looking to force itself into that market when it is largely just USA expats who attend the games.

Random... from what I have heard from my friends in South America Gridiron football has a sizeable following in Brazil, it isn't front page or top of the radar but there is a noticeable amount of folks who enjoy Gridiron football down there.

As much as I think Ambrosie is an excellent commissioner, this international strategy appears very pie-in-the-sky. The reasons you've given are all valid.

I'd also add the very simple point that before getting the Japanese turned on to the CFL, let's get (more) Canadians turned on to the CFL first.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd also add the very simple point that before getting the Japanese turned on to the CFL, let's get (more) Canadians turned on to the CFL first.

I agree, but I think there is a value to raising the CFL's profile in the USA (via ESPN) though.

1) - this is a potential cash cow for the CFL
2) - as per your point in the post above, if young hip Canadians see that the CFL is actually respected in the USA, this might make them take an interest in the league as well.

The CFL does have the potential to make further inroads in fan viewership in the States.

1) - the seasons don't completely overlap, and this gives Americans the chance for another couple of months of competitive football every year.
2) - the game (with it's slightly different rules) probably seems a little exotic to them. This might intrigue and stimulate aficionados of the game.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree, but I think there is a value to raising the CFL's profile in the USA (via ESPN) though.

1) - this is a potential cash cow for the CFL
2) - as per your point in the post above, if young hip Canadians see that the CFL is actually respected in the USA, this might make them take an interest in the league as well.

The CFL does have the potential to make further inroads in fan viewership in the States.

1) - the seasons don't completely overlap, and this gives Americans the chance for another couple of months of competitive football every year.
2) - the game (with it's slightly different rules) probably seems a little exotic to them. This might intrigue and stimulate aficionados of the game.

How typically "Canadian" of me... I wasn't thinking of the U.S. as "international"!

You're right.