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  #39541  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2017, 10:03 PM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ I find it baffling that you don’t think those restaurants can coexist with a McDonald’s.

Do you really think the consumer mentally lumps McDonalds together with fine dining establishments? I mean, don’t you think pretty much everyone know the difference? I don’t see this being an issue, and it offers a cheaper option to office workers.

This is not just an entertainment district any more, it’s now becoming a place where people work, and you have to have places that service that new reality
Consumer poaching or confusion (not my main point) would not be due to fast food. It would be more by the arrival of formulaic corporate schlock like Smith & Wollensky (bullshit names picked because they sound like a good steakhouse name; owned by a fund) or Del Frisco's and other lazy ilk who have less stars on Yelp than their dollarsign rating, just so they can leverage the cachet of being in the neighborhood when they're contributing absolutely zero to it. Or more likely, rebadged to appear as though they're a one-off.

Here's a great example of what we have to be proud of in Fulton/Randolph right now; this article from last month is about a $50 burger that the Grant Achatz team just started serving at Roister. While you can find uber-luxe $100 or $1000 burgers in various places around the world, invariably they're just gimmicks by adding truffles or caviar or gold leaf and other bullshit that anybody could bolt on as a side dish if they wanted. But here, Roister is completely authentic and pushing the boundaries of cuisine because their burger is just meat -- amazingly it's a slab of steak, but of such high wagyu quality that it eats virtually like ground beef. Again, that's part of what I meant by "artists", even as a business decision it is an artistic move, taking a risk to get closer to nature and flavor.

Sadly, the typical gaggle of diners isn't going to delve into what is true quality and what is a gimmick; ultimately everything in consumerism normally trends towards gimmicks. On a recent trip I went to one of the newer Momofuku restaurants and it was really just an embarrassing trap for people who like Instagram; David Chang must have a team of MBAs and PR consultants figuring out how to extend his brand.

What does McD's have to do with that? Nothing, directly. But a pair of giant, buxom, yellow arches only one block past Morgan would kind of open the door, kind of give permission or allow a lower bar, for other formulaic and corporate places to open up right on this stretch. And conversely, take the example of Bonci pizza, which picked Randolph this summer for its very first restaurant outside Italy; I wonder how excited food snobs from Europe would be to pick Chicago over London or NY if their siting decision involved a Taco Bell or something right across the street.

The other thing is that if the McD is positioned as a night magnet or flagship, I'd be concerned about cars and taxis jockeying all around the intersection, including after United Center events, generating a one block radius microcosm of a River North crowd.

It's inevitable to some degree with the coming office growth, but one can still lament it. That is all.

Last edited by denizen467; Dec 10, 2017 at 10:58 PM.
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  #39542  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 3:21 AM
Flaccer05 Flaccer05 is offline
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McDonald's Headquarters - Dec 10



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  #39543  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 3:33 AM
Flaccer05 Flaccer05 is offline
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811 W Fulton, Hoxton, and 900 W Fulton rehab/addition







Hoxton Hotel
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  #39544  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 4:25 AM
Cheap_Shot Cheap_Shot is offline
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Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
Consumer poaching or confusion (not my main point) would not be due to fast food. It would be more by the arrival of formulaic corporate schlock like Smith & Wollensky (bullshit names picked because they sound like a good steakhouse name; owned by a fund) or Del Frisco's and other lazy ilk who have less stars on Yelp than their dollarsign rating, just so they can leverage the cachet of being in the neighborhood when they're contributing absolutely zero to it. Or more likely, rebadged to appear as though they're a one-off.

Here's a great example of what we have to be proud of in Fulton/Randolph right now; this article from last month is about a $50 burger that the Grant Achatz team just started serving at Roister. While you can find uber-luxe $100 or $1000 burgers in various places around the world, invariably they're just gimmicks by adding truffles or caviar or gold leaf and other bullshit that anybody could bolt on as a side dish if they wanted. But here, Roister is completely authentic and pushing the boundaries of cuisine because their burger is just meat -- amazingly it's a slab of steak, but of such high wagyu quality that it eats virtually like ground beef. Again, that's part of what I meant by "artists", even as a business decision it is an artistic move, taking a risk to get closer to nature and flavor.

Sadly, the typical gaggle of diners isn't going to delve into what is true quality and what is a gimmick; ultimately everything in consumerism normally trends towards gimmicks. On a recent trip I went to one of the newer Momofuku restaurants and it was really just an embarrassing trap for people who like Instagram; David Chang must have a team of MBAs and PR consultants figuring out how to extend his brand.

What does McD's have to do with that? Nothing, directly. But a pair of giant, buxom, yellow arches only one block past Morgan would kind of open the door, kind of give permission or allow a lower bar, for other formulaic and corporate places to open up right on this stretch. And conversely, take the example of Bonci pizza, which picked Randolph this summer for its very first restaurant outside Italy; I wonder how excited food snobs from Europe would be to pick Chicago over London or NY if their siting decision involved a Taco Bell or something right across the street.

The other thing is that if the McD is positioned as a night magnet or flagship, I'd be concerned about cars and taxis jockeying all around the intersection, including after United Center events, generating a one block radius microcosm of a River North crowd.

It's inevitable to some degree with the coming office growth, but one can still lament it. That is all.
I don't buy into this. It's like you really believe that Randolph/Fulton should be the exclusive Oak Street of food in Chicago, and no sub standard options (as judged by who, I'm not sure) should be allowed in on the fun.

But why all the hate now for McD? There are already numerous other restaurants/stores in the area that people would consider chains. Nando's, Starbucks!!!, sweetgreen, Anthropologie, lululemon, etc.

This isn't some ideal playground that should be held to an ultra-lux standard. People (myself and many friends included) live and work here. It has been and still is a rapidly growing Chicago neighborhood, and as such will need to provide the entire spectrum of conveniences for all spending levels, including the $50 burger and the $2 burger.

This is true nearly everywhere you go. Using Savile Row in London (world's most famous high end men's clothing district) as an example, you literally have Abercrombie & Fitch, Zara, J. Crew and a multitude of other chains right there with the best clothiers in the world. Those chains haven't tarnished the image at all.

It sounds like you're really into food, and I truly think that's great. Randolph and Fulton are somewhat of a Mecca for you to visit, which is also great. But just because there are offerings you consider to hurt the image of the neighborhood, doesn't mean those of us actually in the neighborhood day in and day out feel the same way.

And lastly, if you think cars and cabs aren't already cruising Randolph late nights on the weekend and after United Center events, full of a quasi "River North crowd", you need to visit again. With very limited parking, it's insanity down here and has been for a year or two. But I don't have a car and rent my parking space out for good money, so "I'm lovin' it." Sorry, couldn't resist.
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  #39545  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 2:17 PM
BuildThemTaller BuildThemTaller is offline
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Dear people that are deriding McDonald's for having the audacity to open one of their restaurants along Randolph,

Look at this thing! It's so urban. It addresses the street so well. I, for one, can forgive them for selling mediocre hamburgers if they want to move their corporate headquarters into this thing. They'll have to compete with some of the best restaurants in the city if they want to stay viable. Competition is good. Who knows, maybe some of those restaurants, like the Gus's Fried Chicken, will help McDonald's become a better restaurant.
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  #39546  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 2:27 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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I like McDonald's... I also like Au Cheval...
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  #39547  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 2:53 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is online now
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Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller View Post
Dear people that are deriding McDonald's for having the audacity to open one of their restaurants along Randolph,

Look at this thing! It's so urban. It addresses the street so well. I, for one, can forgive them for selling mediocre hamburgers if they want to move their corporate headquarters into this thing. They'll have to compete with some of the best restaurants in the city if they want to stay viable. Competition is good. Who knows, maybe some of those restaurants, like the Gus's Fried Chicken, will help McDonald's become a better restaurant.
This is what will happen without a doubt. It's not even about competition though, McDonald's is not even in the same market as a place like Au Cheval or the $50 Waygu burger. That's why the fretting about McDonald's denuding the purity of restaurant row is so silly. What will happen is McDonald's employees who are in charge of setting the menu or tweaking recipes will be exposed to a higher order of food on a daily basis and ideas from those experiences will make their way into McDonald's. The same may even happen to the local foodie joints too if they say "you know I've always wanted to try that Chinese chicken on a stick McDonald's serves in Beijing, let's pop over to the golden arches for a taste".

This is the entire point of cities people. We don't build them because they are impressive, fascinating, or all the other reasons we all love cities. Humans build settlements because it fosters the specialization of labor/business and the development of culture. Culture of course being the ideas and traditions passed between humans. That's literally why McDonald's is moving back to the city whether they identify it on a sociological theoretical level like that or not. They've realized that being marooned on a corporate island in the suburbs results in rampant idealogical inbreeding, the dreaded "groupthink". They have identified suburban flight as a solution to that problem and, many kudos to them, have acted on it. They are, knowingly or not, complying with the most ancient and fundamental tenant of human civilization in the process and will be rewarded for it. That tenant is simple: if you want to be successful you locate where the most people are.
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  #39548  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 4:51 PM
Stunnies23 Stunnies23 is offline
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A crappy, pro-nimby article written by Greg Hinz at Crain’s discusses residential zoning.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...er-green-space
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  #39549  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 4:52 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
Consumer poaching or confusion (not my main point) would not be due to fast food. It would be more by the arrival of formulaic corporate schlock like Smith & Wollensky (bullshit names picked because they sound like a good steakhouse name; owned by a fund) or Del Frisco's and other lazy ilk who have less stars on Yelp than their dollarsign rating, just so they can leverage the cachet of being in the neighborhood when they're contributing absolutely zero to it. Or more likely, rebadged to appear as though they're a one-off.

Here's a great example of what we have to be proud of in Fulton/Randolph right now; this article from last month is about a $50 burger that the Grant Achatz team just started serving at Roister. While you can find uber-luxe $100 or $1000 burgers in various places around the world, invariably they're just gimmicks by adding truffles or caviar or gold leaf and other bullshit that anybody could bolt on as a side dish if they wanted. But here, Roister is completely authentic and pushing the boundaries of cuisine because their burger is just meat -- amazingly it's a slab of steak, but of such high wagyu quality that it eats virtually like ground beef. Again, that's part of what I meant by "artists", even as a business decision it is an artistic move, taking a risk to get closer to nature and flavor.

Sadly, the typical gaggle of diners isn't going to delve into what is true quality and what is a gimmick; ultimately everything in consumerism normally trends towards gimmicks. On a recent trip I went to one of the newer Momofuku restaurants and it was really just an embarrassing trap for people who like Instagram; David Chang must have a team of MBAs and PR consultants figuring out how to extend his brand.

What does McD's have to do with that? Nothing, directly. But a pair of giant, buxom, yellow arches only one block past Morgan would kind of open the door, kind of give permission or allow a lower bar, for other formulaic and corporate places to open up right on this stretch. And conversely, take the example of Bonci pizza, which picked Randolph this summer for its very first restaurant outside Italy; I wonder how excited food snobs from Europe would be to pick Chicago over London or NY if their siting decision involved a Taco Bell or something right across the street.

The other thing is that if the McD is positioned as a night magnet or flagship, I'd be concerned about cars and taxis jockeying all around the intersection, including after United Center events, generating a one block radius microcosm of a River North crowd.

It's inevitable to some degree with the coming office growth, but one can still lament it. That is all.
ill say it again: get over yourself. the fact we're sitting here debating the offense of a place serve $60 hamburgers potentially being located near $3 chain burgers displays a level of comfort and privilege 99% of the worlds population can barely begin to dream about (which is not hyperbole when 50% of people on the planet lives on less than $2 a day).

also, your contempt for the "average person" who is supposedly too stupid to suss out quality from gimmicks (or that they are somehow flawed for even liking gimmicks) is really gross. id suggest you evaluate and reconsider this thought process.

Quote:
And conversely, take the example of Bonci pizza, which picked Randolph this summer for its very first restaurant outside Italy; I wonder how excited food snobs from Europe would be to pick Chicago over London or NY if their siting decision involved a Taco Bell or something right across the street.
youre insane.

youre also acting as if Fulton Market as of very recently didnt have a negative connotation rather than a positive one. this is absurd revisionist history. the whole reason it was gritty and undesirable is the reason so many cutting edge restaurants were able to set up shop there in the first place. 42 Grams before it closed was located in one of the most undesireable parts of Uptown. Schwa resembles a dive bar more than a restaurant and is on a strip of Ashland mostly populated by auto body shops and a Shell station. Goosefoot is in the no man lands portion of Lincoln Square. El Ideas is located off a stretch of western that looks like this:



frankly i couldnt care less what food snobs from Europe think about that. if they want to get to know the real Chicago, than there going to have to leave the imaginary fantasy world and enter the real one.

Also, Bonci should probably worry more about the swastika that has been grafittied on the side of their building in Rome for at least several years (as best as I can tell from streetview) than a taco bell or McD being somewhere near one of their corporate expansions



Rome isnt some museum piece set in amber either, its a real breathing place. the reality is any city is a cacophony of contrasts and contradictions, and thats often what makes them exciting and interesting.

Last edited by Via Chicago; Dec 11, 2017 at 5:34 PM.
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  #39550  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 5:29 PM
Handro Handro is offline
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Consumer poaching or confusion (not my main point) would not be due to fast food. It would be more by the arrival of formulaic corporate schlock like Smith & Wollensky (bullshit names picked because they sound like a good steakhouse name; owned by a fund) or Del Frisco's and other lazy ilk who have less stars on Yelp than their dollarsign rating, just so they can leverage the cachet of being in the neighborhood when they're contributing absolutely zero to it. Or more likely, rebadged to appear as though they're a one-off.

Here's a great example of what we have to be proud of in Fulton/Randolph right now; this article from last month is about a $50 burger that the Grant Achatz team just started serving at Roister. While you can find uber-luxe $100 or $1000 burgers in various places around the world, invariably they're just gimmicks by adding truffles or caviar or gold leaf and other bullshit that anybody could bolt on as a side dish if they wanted. But here, Roister is completely authentic and pushing the boundaries of cuisine because their burger is just meat -- amazingly it's a slab of steak, but of such high wagyu quality that it eats virtually like ground beef. Again, that's part of what I meant by "artists", even as a business decision it is an artistic move, taking a risk to get closer to nature and flavor.

Sadly, the typical gaggle of diners isn't going to delve into what is true quality and what is a gimmick; ultimately everything in consumerism normally trends towards gimmicks. On a recent trip I went to one of the newer Momofuku restaurants and it was really just an embarrassing trap for people who like Instagram; David Chang must have a team of MBAs and PR consultants figuring out how to extend his brand.

What does McD's have to do with that? Nothing, directly. But a pair of giant, buxom, yellow arches only one block past Morgan would kind of open the door, kind of give permission or allow a lower bar, for other formulaic and corporate places to open up right on this stretch. And conversely, take the example of Bonci pizza, which picked Randolph this summer for its very first restaurant outside Italy; I wonder how excited food snobs from Europe would be to pick Chicago over London or NY if their siting decision involved a Taco Bell or something right across the street.

The other thing is that if the McD is positioned as a night magnet or flagship, I'd be concerned about cars and taxis jockeying all around the intersection, including after United Center events, generating a one block radius microcosm of a River North crowd.

It's inevitable to some degree with the coming office growth, but one can still lament it. That is all.
What the hell are you talking about? You must, MUST, be trolling here.

There's a McDonalds 1 block from Eleven Madison Park in NYC (not to mention the Walgreens, Arby's and Panera.) Osteria Francescana is located on a nondescript side street in Modena--Italy's answer to Pittsburgh. El Celler de Can Roca is down the street from a Honda dealer.

I don't know what fantasy world you've dreamed up that this club of ultra-high class food snobs is galavanting from one glitzy district to another all while only begrudgingly accepting poor Chicago and simply waiting for an excuse to exclude us.

Fulton is a great district and is promising to be a staple of Chicago after this round of development is over. Allowing it to become a bustling city neighborhood while also maintaining a great collection of food destinations makes it (and Chicago) better, not worse.
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  #39551  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 5:54 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
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Guys, Denizen is right. Now that McDonald's is opening I will eat there instead of at Little Goat Diner. I already go to Arby's instead of the fine steakhouse down the street. Because it's there. And I'm an idiot
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  #39552  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 6:03 PM
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Ronsley


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  #39553  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 6:07 PM
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^This did not turn out well. It obliterates the old building. The proportions of the spandrels, the cheap facade materials, the lack of depth--overall a heavy-handed designed that's totally botched. (Notice the 'cornice' they slapped on atop the old portion?)

They should have just demo'd the old structure if its fate was to have the indignity of being a part of this mess.
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  #39554  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 6:14 PM
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^This did not turn out well. It obliterates the old building. The proportions of the spandrels, the cheap facade materials, the lack of depth--overall a heavy-handed designed that's totally botched. (Notice the 'cornice' they slapped on atop the old portion?)
This angle was always super fugly. And yet it came out even worse that I expected. Barf.


The Ronsley
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  #39555  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 6:28 PM
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yikes.
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  #39556  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 7:09 PM
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Holy hell thats horrendous. Who approved this thing?
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  #39557  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 8:38 PM
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Uptown Update found this nice little tidbit from the recent Crain's article on the Uptown Theater:
Quote:
Next to the Lawrence stop, steps from the Uptown, the city is studying the potential for an upscale hotel, says Deputy Planning Commissioner Eleanor Gorski.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...until-it-wasnt
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  #39558  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 9:11 PM
Near North Resident Near North Resident is online now
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Ronsley


good lord is everything build during this boom going to have fiber cement cladding and black brick?

That looks pretty terrible, I thought the renders didn't look that bad, oh well
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  #39559  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 9:20 PM
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"renders" = triggered
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  #39560  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 10:24 PM
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fulton mkt/west loop is kind of like the neighborhood that might have happened in river north if everything hadn't been blasted out for surface parking decades ago.

and agree that cheap real estate near urban centers drives restaurant innovation.. that is a known fact

and mcdonalds is fine, especially IN THEIR OWN GLOBAL HQ.
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