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  #39561  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
I like McDonald's... I also like Au Cheval...
McDonald's is great. Not something to eat often, but convenient to have around.
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  #39562  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 1:16 AM
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CHICAGO—April 1. Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel joined several celebrity chefs today to herald the beginning of the city's Protected Culinary Zone planning initiative. Under the program, selected areas of the city will be designated so that only the most selective of eating establishments can be located there.

Restaurants seeking to locate in one of the new zones will need to submit reviews from a short list of approved critics, and an application approved by a mysterious figure called "denizen." Final approval will be up to a committee of aldermen.

Officials with the city's Dept. of Cultural Affairs and Special Events will administer the zones, which are similar to the city's highly successful Protected Manufacturing Zones. The Dept. of Economic Development is said to be considering a similar system to set up Gold Mining Districts.
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  #39563  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 2:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
CHICAGO—April 1. Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel joined several celebrity chefs today to herald the beginning of the city's Protected Culinary Zone planning initiative. Under the program, selected areas of the city will be designated so that only the most selective of eating establishments can be located there.

Restaurants seeking to locate in one of the new zones will need to submit reviews from a short list of approved critics, and an application approved by a mysterious figure called "denizen." Final approval will be up to a committee of aldermen.

Officials with the city's Dept. of Cultural Affairs and Special Events will administer the zones, which are similar to the city's highly successful Protected Manufacturing Zones. The Dept. of Economic Development is said to be considering a similar system to set up Gold Mining Districts.
Not gonna lie, very funny post

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  #39564  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 3:14 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
ill say it again: get over yourself. the fact we're sitting here debating the offense of a place serve $60 hamburgers potentially being located near $3 chain burgers displays a level of comfort and privilege 99% of the worlds population can barely begin to dream about (which is not hyperbole when 50% of people on the planet lives on less than $2 a day).

also, your contempt for the "average person" who is supposedly too stupid to suss out quality from gimmicks (or that they are somehow flawed for even liking gimmicks) is really gross. id suggest you evaluate and reconsider this thought process.



youre insane.

youre also acting as if Fulton Market as of very recently didnt have a negative connotation rather than a positive one. this is absurd revisionist history. the whole reason it was gritty and undesirable is the reason so many cutting edge restaurants were able to set up shop there in the first place. 42 Grams before it closed was located in one of the most undesireable parts of Uptown. Schwa resembles a dive bar more than a restaurant and is on a strip of Ashland mostly populated by auto body shops and a Shell station. Goosefoot is in the no man lands portion of Lincoln Square. El Ideas is located off a stretch of western that looks like this:



frankly i couldnt care less what food snobs from Europe think about that. if they want to get to know the real Chicago, than there going to have to leave the imaginary fantasy world and enter the real one.
Yeah, but Marshall Square is quite literally the hottest neighborhood in the city now that McDonalds has ruined the West Loop permanently. With Riotfest, El Ideas, Cinespace, and Lagunitas it's the center of all world culture.
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  #39565  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 3:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
CHICAGO—April 1. Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel joined several celebrity chefs today to herald the beginning of the city's Protected Culinary Zone planning initiative. Under the program, selected areas of the city will be designated so that only the most selective of eating establishments can be located there.

Restaurants seeking to locate in one of the new zones will need to submit reviews from a short list of approved critics, and an application approved by a mysterious figure called "denizen." Final approval will be up to a committee of aldermen.

Officials with the city's Dept. of Cultural Affairs and Special Events will administer the zones, which are similar to the city's highly successful Protected Manufacturing Zones. The Dept. of Economic Development is said to be considering a similar system to set up Gold Mining Districts.
Is it wrong that this sounds like something that could actuallly happen in Chicago....
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  #39566  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 5:41 AM
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Is it wrong that this sounds like something that could actuallly happen in Chicago....
Haha, that was my first thought.
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  #39567  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 8:10 AM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
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Everybody has mistakenly assumed that by quality and unique I mean expensive and inaccessible. I'm clearly talking about very inexpensive places as well, as long as there is a quality or uniqueness. Cemitas Puebla, Gus's Chicken, a $5 tamale stand, there should be plenty (and already are some) of places like that, and there's plenty of room for innovation there. When I criticize "budget" joints I'm talking chiefly about corporate chains, and I'm not attacking everything simply because it's cheap. Being a quality snob does not mean being a class or wealth snob. To say nothing of the fact that there certainly should be people of a range of backgrounds enjoying this neighborhood.

TJ Maxx opening on Oak Street is something most people understand would defeat the purpose of the area (aside from whether you care, or support it, or not). Though Oak Street is kind of an analogy, one difference is that I am not talking about excluding cheap establishments. Just lazy, formulaic ones.

Last edited by denizen467; Dec 12, 2017 at 10:30 AM.
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  #39568  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 8:17 AM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
ill say it again: get over yourself. the fact we're sitting here debating the offense of a place serve $60 hamburgers potentially being located near $3 chain burgers displays a level of comfort and privilege 99% of the worlds population can barely begin to dream about (which is not hyperbole when 50% of people on the planet lives on less than $2 a day).

also, your contempt for the "average person" who is supposedly too stupid to suss out quality from gimmicks (or that they are somehow flawed for even liking gimmicks) is really gross. id suggest you evaluate and reconsider this thought process.
Being a quality snob is "gross"?? These Chicago forums practically exist (often) to mock and deride (and eventually educate and inform) people who are "too stupid to suss out quality from gimmicks" in building design here. If Lucien Lagrange shows his head around here, we shoot him down, and anybody who supports him, etc. (And, everything we talk about in these threads are already "first world problems.") So I think the comment "get over yourself" applies to yourself very nicely if you don't like the fact that many people strive for quality and condemn mediocrity. Are you a philistine or something? For many people in architecture, fashion, theater, and other professions, everywhere in the world, including tons that I've met in this city, being a quality snob is a way of life. (In the sense of being discerning in their field, and obviously not in the sense of being a jerk towards less educated or wealthy people.) Isn't that part of why theater or restaurant critics exist? Isn't that why millions are captivated by the painstaking work of (the legendarily snobby) Steve Jobs and Jony Ive and their creations? Is your vision of an ideal city an outlet mall?

And it's not contempt for consumers. Many consumers aren't sure what they want, so ideally they will be presented with quality options. I will say it's contempt for merchants who sell garbage and market it as quality. I'd prefer merchants serve, marginally, some educational and cultural role. A $3 burger place next to a $50 burger place is fine and fantastic, if it's doing something clever or new.

And I don't look down on a person if they have lousy taste (and certainly not if they have little money, for crying out loud). People are multidimensional and even if I may be unimpressed, even privately disdainful, about one of their choices, it doesn't judge the whole person; everybody has something interesting worth listening to, everybody is capable of improving themselves, and you have to look at the whole person (now I sound like a hallmark card).

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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
youre also acting as if Fulton Market as of very recently didnt have a negative connotation rather than a positive one. this is absurd revisionist history. the whole reason it was gritty and undesirable is the reason so many cutting edge restaurants were able to set up shop there in the first place. 42 Grams before it closed was located in one of the most undesireable parts of Uptown. Schwa resembles a dive bar more than a restaurant and is on a strip of Ashland mostly populated by auto body shops and a Shell station. Goosefoot is in the no man lands portion of Lincoln Square. El Ideas is located off a stretch of western that looks like this:

frankly i couldnt care less what food snobs from Europe think about that. if they want to get to know the real Chicago, than there going to have to leave the imaginary fantasy world and enter the real one.

Also, Bonci should probably worry more about the swastika that has been grafittied on the side of their building in Rome for at least several years (as best as I can tell from streetview) than a taco bell or McD being somewhere near one of their corporate expansions

Rome isnt some museum piece set in amber either, its a real breathing place. the reality is any city is a cacophony of contrasts and contradictions, and thats often what makes them exciting and interesting.
The past of Fulton Market is not relevant. Its present is relevant. I've been to almost all the restaurants you listed; their locations are fine, I don't see your point.

If you don't care about "what food snobs from Europe think", how about stepping back and recognizing that some people do care? It's part of competing on the global stage, you get praised in articles in the foreign press, guidebooks, etc. For my part I don't care what theater snobs from NYC think, but I don't go and attack theater critics (there or here) for saying such-and-such production is lousy, or whatever.

Chicago received lots of awesome press from Bonci choosing us first. Your attack on Bonci for being in a graffitied neighborhood is irrelevant; in fact it nearly aligns with my points about Fulton Market. Your comment about Rome is a truism that happily applies to Chicago at large, so it's inapplicable. Italy is probably the most famous food country in the West; having one of its most well-respected young chefs come to Chicago is something to celebrate, or do you hate those damn, sometimes cultured foreigners?

Last edited by denizen467; Dec 12, 2017 at 10:39 AM.
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  #39569  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 8:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
There's a McDonalds 1 block from Eleven Madison Park in NYC (not to mention the Walgreens, Arby's and Panera.) Osteria Francescana is located on a nondescript side street in Modena--Italy's answer to Pittsburgh. El Celler de Can Roca is down the street from a Honda dealer.

I don't know what fantasy world you've dreamed up that this club of ultra-high class food snobs is galavanting from one glitzy district to another all while only begrudgingly accepting poor Chicago and simply waiting for an excuse to exclude us.

Fulton is a great district and is promising to be a staple of Chicago after this round of development is over. Allowing it to become a bustling city neighborhood while also maintaining a great collection of food destinations makes it (and Chicago) better, not worse.
You're really not paying attention. I'm talking about one high quality restaurant district (not a whole city). And it would have nothing to do with excluding inexpensive, even very inexpensive, places. Nothing there prevents Chicago from becoming "better" - and you're lacking imagination if you think any of this prevents the west loop from becoming "bustling." Also, we have a city garbage truck repair facility next to the excellent restaurant Ada Street 1664, and zillions more similar to your listed examples, but additionally having one unusually unique restaurant district produces many synergies, like having it as a default destination without having any reservations and needing only to walk a short distance before finding a place.
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  #39570  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 8:49 AM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
CHICAGO—April 1. Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel joined several celebrity chefs today ...
Mr Downtown, you are precious. As always (and this time I owe you a fee, or a beer, for your time). But in one way your March 32nd dystopian vision empasizes my point - the neighborhood has so far grown organically, without the strict artificial regulation of your fictional ordinances, and so it has to rely on advocacy more at a grassroots level, hence my commentary.

Ultimately though, Fulton Market has, in fact, been curated by forces above public citizens, but not as high as government - Sterling Bay, and Shapack, and other developers, who are essentially implementing what I'm talking about, by picking and choosing, and curating, a certain look to Fulton Market. So, the money has been agreeing with me so far, on some fronts. They've declined to rent out to the chains I'm talking about.

I don't get why people are hating on the idea of one cluster of high quality, both inexpensive and expensive, restaurants, that becomes renowned nationally and internationally. There's an opportunity to foster that right now. I'm not saying it has to be huge, or formalized, or fight big market forces, or throttle people looking for lunch. If it dissolves too much, then it's just like any other part of the city; why not at least nominally be supportive of some kind of showcase district? (I think this discussion has generalized from the specific question of the McD to this broader question now.) (And I think it's sucked enough oxygen in this thread by now.)

maru2501 is right though - cheap real estate is instrumental to restaurant innovation, and that won't continue forever here, so we may be left with just Alineas and Grand Lux Cheescake Factories before the next decade is up anyway.
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  #39571  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 2:06 PM
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^ Umm, are you ok denizen?
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  #39572  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
Everybody has mistakenly assumed that by quality and unique I mean expensive and inaccessible. I'm clearly talking about very inexpensive places as well, as long as there is a quality or uniqueness. Cemitas Puebla, Gus's Chicken, a $5 tamale stand, there should be plenty (and already are some) of places like that, and there's plenty of room for innovation there. When I criticize "budget" joints I'm talking chiefly about corporate chains, and I'm not attacking everything simply because it's cheap. Being a quality snob does not mean being a class or wealth snob. To say nothing of the fact that there certainly should be people of a range of backgrounds enjoying this neighborhood.

TJ Maxx opening on Oak Street is something most people understand would defeat the purpose of the area (aside from whether you care, or support it, or not). Though Oak Street is kind of an analogy, one difference is that I am not talking about excluding cheap establishments. Just lazy, formulaic ones.
I'm not sure if you purposely skipped this part of the post but here it is again.

Why all the hate now for McD? There are already numerous other restaurants/stores in the Randolph/Fulton neighborhood that people would consider chains. Nando's, Starbucks!!!, sweetgreen, Anthropologie, lululemon, etc. I would argue these are VERY formulaic.

Also see my note about Savile Row not having it's legacy tarnished by brands such as Zara, J. Crew., Abercrombie, etc.

And finally, corporate chains are not exclusive of being innovative. It's like you have a vendetta against big companies. I would argue they may not always be at the forefront of innovation, but I'm sure even you can think of numerous examples of large companies introducing new products/ideas.

Last edited by Cheap_Shot; Dec 12, 2017 at 4:39 PM.
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  #39573  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 3:11 PM
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And finally, corporate chains are not exclusive of being innovative. It's like you have a vendetta against big companies. I would argue they may not always be at the forefront of innovation, but I'm sure even you can think of numerous examples of large companies introducing new products/ideas.
McDonald's itself was a huge investor in Chipotle, which has changed the way restaurants work. They pioneered the fast-casual, deli-style ordering system. There is now a Chipotle for every type of food; Mediteranean, Indian, pizza, etc.
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  #39574  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 4:19 PM
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denizen can be left alone now, everyone. This mob has gotten a little out of hand, especially considering that he makes a valid point (one that's certainly contestable, but definitely not wholly invalid). And some of the same folks that are using McDonald's as the fulcrum for their arguments against him are the same that have abhorred the place in other conversations for their merciless exploitation of their supply chain, selfish real-estate practices, perpetuation of automotive hegemony, etc. etc.

Let's all agree that it sucks when art sells out (provided there's even a distinction to be made between the pursuit of art and that of profit) and that cool things get spoiled once they reach a critical mass of presence in the popular consciousness and just...move on.
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  #39575  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 4:49 PM
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Here here... Let's move on, but can we all agree that this looks..........err....... delicious, or something? *shivers*


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Last edited by Busy Bee; Dec 12, 2017 at 8:55 PM.
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  #39576  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 5:57 PM
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Editorial in today's Crains asking the Rahm administration for a renewed effort to bring the Uptown Theatre back to life. I really want to see this happen
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  #39577  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 6:28 PM
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Editorial in today's Crains asking the Rahm administration for a renewed effort to bring the Uptown Theatre back to life. I really want to see this happen
Politically he's in a tough spot on the Uptown. I'm sure he wants to move on it but probably can't until he secures re-election. It's going to take a lot of TIF/neighborhood bonus cash.
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  #39578  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 7:43 PM
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This is such a ridiculous argument. Maybe sometimes after spending $20/cocktail at The Aviary, some people just want a basic $1 mcchicken for their drunk food.
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  #39579  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 8:45 PM
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SO, general development news, the DPD twitter posted a construction update of the "Parade of Homes" in Bronzeville.


https://twitter.com/ChicagoDPD/statu...77425905750016
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  #39580  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 8:54 PM
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^Cool, there's one of those three foot cars
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