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  #39641  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2017, 9:41 PM
JK47 JK47 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
As others have said, the spectrum of light emitted by LED is much closer to sunlight so humans (and cameras) see much better in LED lighting. The logic being that all kinds of seedy behavior will be discouraged and investigations furthered by the change.

People and cameras may see better in an area illuminated by the LED lights but as streetlights do have a big drawback: they destroy night vision. The LED lamps use a higher temperature illumination (blue to white) that causes our pupils to dilate whereas the lower temperature orange temperature lights would not. It also means that our ability to see into unlit areas (e.g. shadows) is non-existent since our nightvision would be wiped out while under LED illumination.
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  #39642  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2017, 10:16 PM
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Can someone go out to Austin or Englewood and see if the above is accurate?
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  #39643  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 2:25 AM
Rooster slayer Rooster slayer is offline
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I agree with steely....Northern climate warm lights... I understand the drive to change them tho.
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  #39644  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 3:22 AM
wchicity wchicity is offline
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Anyone know the status of Nobu now that they apparently have a new owner?
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  #39645  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 3:35 AM
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SolarWind SolarWind is offline
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New Streetlights Headed To The South And West Sides As City Selects Vendor For Chicago Smart Lighting Project
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For the first year, streetlight fixture replacement will be focused in those neighborhoods with heightened public safety concerns, primarily on the west and south sides. This allows communities in the greatest need to most quickly reap the benefits of clearer and more reliable lighting. In addition, to ensure neighborhoods throughout the City benefit from new lighting in the first year, new LED lights will be installed along approximately a dozen main arterial streets across the City.

These new lights, which will be owned and operated by the City, will consume 50-75 percent less electricity than existing high pressure sodium (HPS) lights, generating significant electricity cost savings that will be utilized to pay for the modernization.

Following a neighborhood demonstration project that installed sample LED lights in seven neighborhoods, the City issued specifications for the new lights that feature a “shielded” design to ensure the light is focused downward toward the street and sidewalk where it is needed. In addition, all LED fixtures will be limited to a maximum correlated color temperature (CCT) of 3000K or less, and most will contain dimmable power sources that provide the ability to remotely adjust light levels where needed.
Nice to see that they are using warmer lights. In this case it was better for Chicago to be more of a fast follower than a first mover. They could learn from the mistakes of other cities. Some, like Phoenix and New York, have had to replace several streetlights due to resident complaints.

One interesting note about LED lighting is that overall consumption may actually go up negating the savings in energy efficiency which aligns with Jevons paradox.
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  #39646  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 4:11 PM
VKChaz VKChaz is offline
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Originally Posted by SolarWind View Post
One interesting note about LED lighting is that overall consumption may actually go up negating the savings in energy efficiency which aligns with Jevons paradox.
We still have the sun so hopefully that wouldn't be the case with outdoor lighting on a per unit basis
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  #39647  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 4:24 PM
woodrow woodrow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolarWind View Post
One interesting note about LED lighting is that overall consumption may actually go up negating the savings in energy efficiency which aligns with Jevons paradox.
I just read an article about this. Can't remember where. Consumption is increasing.
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  #39648  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 4:50 PM
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I think the LED lamps are fantastic. The light quality is wonderful. Makes the old sodium light look dirty and unsafe.
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  #39649  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 5:05 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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Originally Posted by woodrow View Post
I just read an article about this. Can't remember where. Consumption is increasing.
I am not following this line of thinking. Can someone ELI5 how changing the lights causes consumption to increase?
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  #39650  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 6:21 PM
PKDickman PKDickman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moorhosj View Post
I am not following this line of thinking. Can someone ELI5 how changing the lights causes consumption to increase?
I think they're talking overall consumption, not just street lights.
That consumers respond to an increase in energy efficiency and reduced
cost by increasing their consumption.
So the streetlights may lower the city's bill, but in general, the switch to LED lighting, won't keep COMED from having to add new generating capacity.
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  #39651  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 6:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibba View Post
I think the LED lamps are fantastic. The light quality is wonderful. Makes the old sodium light look dirty and unsafe.
I never had a problem with the old yellow lights. Now after seeing streets with the new LED lights, the old school lights make every neighborhood they're in look super sketchy.
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  #39652  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 8:12 PM
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I've been designing LED lighting for the last two years and now know far more about it than I ever thought I would. As with all technology, there is good tech and bad tech.

Color Temperature: LEDs are not all blue-white. They range from 2000K (yellow) to 6000K (blue). I agree with the 3000K limit, they should use 2700K which is the same as a typical home bulb. Nice warm white light.
4000K is good for indoor workspaces and sports lighting, but should never be used for general street lighting.

Glare/shielding: It's the light fixture that destroys night vision, not the light source. The big unshielded globe lights hit the eye with full brightness. They create harsh shadows that the eye cannot then see into. Making streets very bright actually make streets less safe.
The wide spectrum white light also improves contrast and visibility vs mono-spectrum sodium lamps.

Flicker: Very cheap LED lights have a large 120Hz (rectified AC) flicker. 10-20% of the population is sensitive to this and it can cause migraines. You can tell if an LED has flicker by running a fan. If you see strobe effects on the blades, there's large flicker.
Good LED lamps have no more than 30% flicker below 200Hz. I believe this is now mandatory in Europe, so will be industry standard soon.

Power consumption: Properly designed lighting and glare management allows for better street lighting with fewer lumens and total wattage. But there are cases where re-lighting a street may result in more lights being installed on residential streets. Especially where that shielding can keep the light on the street and out of bedroom windows.
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  #39653  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 9:12 PM
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^Good post
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  #39654  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 12:39 AM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moorhosj View Post
I am not following this line of thinking. Can someone ELI5 how changing the lights causes consumption to increase?
My place now has just about all LEDs. And they are so efficient that I no longer hassle my wife about turning them off all the time. I did the same thing when my old AC unit broke. The new one was about 60% more efficient, so I set my thermostat lower.
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  #39655  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 1:54 AM
Bonsai Tree Bonsai Tree is offline
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Most of the lights in my town have changed to LEDs. What's funny is that I barely noticed them until we started talking about LEDs! There is a rather noticeable difference between sodium bulbs and LEDs, but I wouldn't say that its horrible (maybe just a bit too bright).
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  #39656  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 1:55 AM
VKChaz VKChaz is offline
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Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
My place now has just about all LEDs. And they are so efficient that I no longer hassle my wife about turning them off all the time. I did the same thing when my old AC unit broke. The new one was about 60% more efficient, so I set my thermostat lower.
As we become more efficient, we just need to raise the cost of consumption. That is ultimately the most direct way to drive down usage - and avoid needing to add capacity and such.
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  #39657  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 5:15 AM
marothisu marothisu is online now
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1) 3300 N Clark Street News (Clark and Aldine). In October there was word about it at 108 feet with 171 units. It's been cut down again - 9 stories (91 feet tall) with 140 units and 20 parking spaces (up from 15). Zoning application was filed for this new revision. BlitzLake is the developer:
https://chicago.legistar.com/Legisla...vanced&Search=

Currently:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/33...!4d-87.6528379
https://www.google.com/maps/place/33...!4d-87.6528379

2) St. Boniface at Chestnut & Noble, which was saved from demolition, has a zoning application to turn the main building into 17 units, and then construct a 51 foot tall building with 24 more units and another building (26 feet high) would have 4 more units - total of 45 units with 48 parking spaces.

Last edited by marothisu; Dec 20, 2017 at 5:37 AM.
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  #39658  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 1:10 PM
Stockerzzz Stockerzzz is offline
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^^ Here's the old 3300 N Clark rendering. I'm guessing the top floor got chopped off.

I'll still take it. That dilapidated community college is an eye sore.


Last edited by Stockerzzz; Dec 20, 2017 at 1:27 PM.
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  #39659  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 1:47 PM
marothisu marothisu is online now
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Originally Posted by Stockerzzz View Post
^^ Here's the old 3300 N Clark rendering. I'm guessing the top floor got chopped off.

I'll still take it. That dilapidated community college is an eye sore.

I don't think the top floor got chopped off - it's still 9 floors. I'm guessing that the average floor height reduced a little.
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  #39660  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 5:58 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VKChaz View Post
As we become more efficient, we just need to raise the cost of consumption. That is ultimately the most direct way to drive down usage - and avoid needing to add capacity and such.
Just making things smarter and more controllable will help. The system the city is putting in will be able to dim, IIRC, so they can control light output down to every fixture. That will save some power. Also no streets full of sodium vapor lights left on for several sunny days in a row because the photosensor controlling them is dirty and thinks its dark out.

When I converted my house to LEDs I put in remotely controllable dimmers so everything happens on schedule and if I forget to turn out the lights I can do it anywhere from my bed to across the planet.
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