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  #4601  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
I've taken the 7 from GCT to the Yards many times. It's way better than taking the 4/5 downtown.

I love downtown and vastly prefer it to Midtown and the HY, despite the commute. Nonetheless, the commute to the HY is way better -- especially if you just had a 50 min train ride on the LIRR, MN, or NJT.
Yes, HY is much more accessible for people coming from Penn or Grand Central, which I'm agreeing with — not disputing at all. Thankfully the WTC also has the 1,2,3,A,C,E,J/Z,R,W and PATH trains, and not just the 4/5.

Which commute is better depends entirely on where you're coming from. For me coming from Brooklyn, the commute to WTC is way better than HY. Same goes for the rest of Brooklyn and people living in Lower Manhattan. Not to mention Jersey City as well and anyone else living by the PATH train. Plus people coming from Staten Island given that the WTC is walking distance from the ferry. Staten Island to HY would be a really difficult commute. It really all depends where you're coming from.
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  #4602  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nylkoorB View Post

Which commute is better depends entirely on where you're coming from. For me coming from Brooklyn, the commute to WTC is way better than HY. Same goes for the rest of Brooklyn and people living in Lower Manhattan. Not to mention Jersey City as well and anyone else living by the PATH train. Plus people coming from Staten Island given that the WTC is walking distance from the ferry. Staten Island to HY would be a really difficult commute. It really all depends where you're coming from.
I'm not sure any of this is true. I live in Brooklyn, and have worked in Midtown and Lower Manhattan, and they are about equal commuting distance.

The trains that run express in Brooklyn (like the N and the F) run to Midtown, not Downtown. So, for example, if you live in Bay Ridge, or Park Slope, your commute to Midtown is about the same as Downtown.

The Jersey waterfront has PATH to both Midtown and Downtown, so the same. Ferries and express buses go to both locations too, but more go to Midtown.

For Staten Island, most people take express buses, which serve Midtown and Downtown. Midtown is probably a few more minutes, but overall not a huge difference. And SI doesn't have a large population.

Overall, Midtown is the center of the region, and accessible to more people. I prefer working in Lower Manhattan, BTW, but it's pretty clear that the region's transit centers on Midtown.
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  #4603  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nylkoorB View Post
Yes, HY is much more accessible for people coming from Penn or Grand Central, which I'm agreeing with — not disputing at all. Thankfully the WTC also has the 1,2,3,A,C,E,J/Z,R,W and PATH trains, and not just the 4/5.

Which commute is better depends entirely on where you're coming from. For me coming from Brooklyn, the commute to WTC is way better than HY. Same goes for the rest of Brooklyn and people living in Lower Manhattan. Not to mention Jersey City as well and anyone else living by the PATH train. Plus people coming from Staten Island given that the WTC is walking distance from the ferry. Staten Island to HY would be a really difficult commute. It really all depends where you're coming from.
My guess is that most people working at DB will live in Westchester, Connecticut, the North Shore of LI, and Manhattan. Those from Manhattan will take a car service. Commuting to the HY is way easier for people from GCT and Penn.

Many Brooklyn commuters obviously would prefer downtown. As I said, I prefer LM to Midtown and am happy to spend extra time on the subway. However, most people don't want to do that.

I just hope that DB stays downtown and anchors 2 WTC.
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  #4604  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 3:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
My guess is that most people working at DB will live in Westchester, Connecticut, the North Shore of LI, and Manhattan. Those from Manhattan will take a car service. Commuting to the HY is way easier for people from GCT and Penn.
I'm sure that plenty of Deutsche employees live in the Outer Boroughs or Jersey, but yeah, I think overall, HY (which is just a sub-district of Midtown) is a bit easier overall for more people. I think that's the biggest difference.

Traditionally, yeah, executives lived in either Manhattan or wealthy parts of Westchester, CT, LI or NJ. That's changed somewhat, though, especially for the under-40 crowd. I think a 40-yo Director at an investment bank is as likely to live in Brownstone Brooklyn as in Connecticut these days.
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  #4605  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 3:22 PM
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The WTC is pretty much the only game Downtown as far as new office space goes. There are a few things blowing in the wind, but not on the scale of the large office buildings we see going up here and in Midtown. That's why I say it's better to leave site 5 vacant for future office space rather than build residential now. Residential space can go anywhere. But once tower 2 is built, where will the new office space Downtown come? More demolition for sure, but nobody really wants that. This space is precious for Downtown, and it will be leased in time.

As far as Midtown space goes, among other things, companies often think of office space in terms of the tri-state area, not just other parts of the city. Midtown without a doubt has the advantage there. Downtown has become much better than it was prior to 9/11 though. There are more stores and restaurants. There are a lot of new residential towers going up, as well as conversions. Lots of things to make the area attractive. The surge in tourists Downtown is a testament to how much things have improved, as it is and will be on the West Side.
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  #4606  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I'm not sure any of this is true. I live in Brooklyn, and have worked in Midtown and Lower Manhattan, and they are about equal commuting distance.
But it is true though.
Brooklyn is way closer and more accessible to Downtown than Midtown. That is a fact and I didn't think it was even possible to deny that.

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The trains that run express in Brooklyn (like the N and the F) run to Midtown, not Downtown. So, for example, if you live in Bay Ridge, or Park Slope, your commute to Midtown is about the same as Downtown.
The N and the F do in fact pass through Lower Manhattan first on their way from Brooklyn to Midtown. If you mean the Financial District or WTC directly, it's true that neither of those trains go directly there, but they don't go directly to HY either. If you take the N from Brooklyn you can also take the R since they run on the same line for a good portion of BK. If you take the F you can transfer to the A/C. Since neither the F or the N go to HY anyway, transferring while still in BK is much easier than having to go all the way to 42nd and get the 7. Also if you live in Bay Ridge, you have the R. If you live in Park Slope, you also have the R along with the 2,3,4, and 5, which each go directly to the WTC.

So not only is it easier to get to the WTC from the N and F, but also they aren't the only express trains in Brooklyn (does the F express even exist anymore anyway?). There's also the 4,5, and A which run express regularly and go directly to the WTC. Also the J/Z which have an express portion which go directly to the WTC as well. Plus the D which runs on the 4th ave line with the R, and the B which provides a very easy connection to the R at Dekalb.

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The Jersey waterfront has PATH to both Midtown and Downtown, so the same. Ferries and express buses go to both locations too, but more go to Midtown.
The key difference here is that the PATH goes directly to the inside of the WTC Lobby. It really doesn't get any easier than that. True it goes to Midtown, but not to HY directly. The closest you can get is Herald Square

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
For Staten Island, most people take express buses, which serve Midtown and Downtown. Midtown is probably a few more minutes, but overall not a huge difference. And SI doesn't have a large population.
I did forget about express buses, but slight edge to WTC on that, although it's not a huge difference as you said (traffic aside). The ferry does provide a very easy commute from Staten Island to the WTC and I would imagine it would be favorable to the bus for many. Not to mention it is free. I'm not sure how many people in SI take the bus over the ferry, but having the ferry is a huge advantage for people working Downtown. If nothing else, it's an extra transportation option.

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Overall, Midtown is the center of the region, and accessible to more people. I prefer working in Lower Manhattan, BTW, but it's pretty clear that the region's transit centers on Midtown.
Yes. I never once disagreed with the fact that Midtown has the regional transit hubs, and is way more accessible for suburban commuters throughout the Tri-State region. In fact I believe I've said it about 3 or 4 times already. I'm specifically talking about subway and PATH rapid transit, and other forms of transit for urban commuters where WTC may have an edge over HY for a few million people across multiple areas (Brooklyn, Jersey City, the rest of Lower Manhattan).

Now just to be clear I'm not saying that HY is easier for everyone in NYC. For example someone living in Queens or the Upper West Side would have an easier time getting to HY. I'm just saying that WTC has more Urban and rapid transit options available in general, and is easier for urban commuters in certain areas.
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  #4607  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by nylkoorB View Post
But it is true though.
Brooklyn is way closer and more accessible to Downtown than Midtown. That is a fact and I didn't think it was even possible to deny that.
Well indeed it is possible, as I make the trip every weekday. Midtown is roughly the same commuting distance as Lower Manhattan from many parts of Brooklyn, including where I live (Park Slope).
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Originally Posted by nylkoorB View Post
The N and the F do in fact pass through Lower Manhattan first on their way from Brooklyn to Midtown.
I stopped reading right here. The N and the F absolutely do NOT run through Lower Manhattan. They serve Midtown. They are of absolutely no use to WTC-bound commuters or really anyone in the general Financial District.

If you're going to deny reality, there's no point in having a conversation. You're basically not even aware of where subway lines run, hence your confusion.
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  #4608  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 6:39 PM
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Well indeed it is possible, as I make the trip every weekday. Midtown is roughly the same commuting distance as Lower Manhattan from many parts of Brooklyn, including where I live (Park Slope).

I stopped reading right here. The N and the F absolutely do NOT run through Lower Manhattan. They serve Midtown. They are of absolutely no use to WTC-bound commuters or really anyone in the general Financial District.

If you're going to deny reality, there's no point in having a conversation. You're basically not even aware of where subway lines run, hence your confusion.
There is no need to be rude here. We are only having a discussion about subways and commutes.
I'm not denying reality. Maybe you should actually read my post before responding? Just a suggestion. I'm a Brooklyn native and know the subway like the back of my hand. I'm not going to repeat my last post, but the N and F in Brooklyn provide many easy ways to get to the WTC, plus the many other trains in Park Slope.

Also, do you not consider Chinatown, LES, or The Village to be Lower Manhattan? It seems you are using the term Downtown Manhattan to refer to the Financial District or WTC only.
Nobody said it is not possible to commute from Brooklyn to Midtown, just that Brooklyn is much closer to Lower Manhattan than it is to Midtown.
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  #4609  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Well indeed it is possible, as I make the trip every weekday. Midtown is roughly the same commuting distance as Lower Manhattan from many parts of Brooklyn, including where I live (Park Slope).

I stopped reading right here. The N and the F absolutely do NOT run through Lower Manhattan. They serve Midtown. They are of absolutely no use to WTC-bound commuters or really anyone in the general Financial District.

If you're going to deny reality, there's no point in having a conversation. You're basically not even aware of where subway lines run, hence your confusion.

Gotta say.. Us New Yorker's are a bit of a crazy bunch..

You both have valid point, but if I was at a Subway stop in Park Slope at the same time as Crawford.. I'd guarantee you with a quick transfer in Brooklyn.. I'd get to the WTC easily 15 minutes before Crawford gets to midtown.. even longer for the Hudson Yards.

Also.. I knew what he meant..East Broadway, the last stop in Manhattan for the F train and Canal St on the N line.. are both considered downtown.. not the Financial District or the WTC or the Battery, but still downtown.

anyway.. it's all good! Still want Deutsche Bank to pick Foster's 2 WTC over anything in the Hudson yards!
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  #4610  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 6:45 PM
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The WTC is pretty much the only game Downtown as far as new office space goes. There are a few things blowing in the wind, but not on the scale of the large office buildings we see going up here and in Midtown. That's why I say it's better to leave site 5 vacant for future office space rather than build residential now. Residential space can go anywhere. But once tower 2 is built, where will the new office space Downtown come? More demolition for sure, but nobody really wants that. This space is precious for Downtown, and it will be leased in time.

As far as Midtown space goes, among other things, companies often think of office space in terms of the tri-state area, not just other parts of the city. Midtown without a doubt has the advantage there. Downtown has become much better than it was prior to 9/11 though. There are more stores and restaurants. There are a lot of new residential towers going up, as well as conversions. Lots of things to make the area attractive. The surge in tourists Downtown is a testament to how much things have improved, as it is and will be on the West Side.
I wonder if One Manhattan Square in Two Bridges area could potentially extend the reach of skyscrapers in Lower Manhattan? Right now it looks very out of place, but maybe the spaces in-between could be filled? What do you guys think?
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  #4611  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 7:36 PM
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I'm not going to repeat my last post, but the N and F in Brooklyn provide many easy ways to get to the WTC, plus the many other trains in Park Slope.
Consult the subway map. You'll see, very clearly, that neither line serves the WTC.
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Also, do you not consider Chinatown, LES, or The Village to be Lower Manhattan? It seems you are using the term Downtown Manhattan to refer to the Financial District or WTC only.
These are completely different neighborhoods, and have nothing to do with the conversation. We were talking about the WTC, in Lower Manhattan, vs. Hudson Yards, in Midtown.

The neighborhoods north of Lower Manhattan (places like SoHo, Flatiron, and the like) actually have equal or higher rents than Midtown. No one is disputing that these areas are VERY competitive with Hudson Yards. But Lower Manhattan is different, and has lower rents, for the aforementioned reasons. If the WTC were in Soho, yeah, it would probably be finished years ago.
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Nobody said it is not possible to commute from Brooklyn to Midtown, just that Brooklyn is much closer to Lower Manhattan than it is to Midtown.
Again, Brooklyn is not necessarily closer for commuting purposes, as has been explained. Distance in terms of mileage isn't as important as commuting time.
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  #4612  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 8:59 PM
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Consult the subway map. You'll see, very clearly, that neither line serves the WTC.

These are completely different neighborhoods, and have nothing to do with the conversation. We were talking about the WTC, in Lower Manhattan, vs. Hudson Yards, in Midtown.

The neighborhoods north of Lower Manhattan (places like SoHo, Flatiron, and the like) actually have equal or higher rents than Midtown. No one is disputing that these areas are VERY competitive with Hudson Yards. But Lower Manhattan is different, and has lower rents, for the aforementioned reasons. If the WTC were in Soho, yeah, it would probably be finished years ago.
The claim was never made that you can take the N or the F directly to the WTC, athough technically the N does serve the WTC overnight, I know that's not what we're discussing though. And just like how not every train in Lower Manhattan serves the WTC, not every train in Midtown serves HY either.

As for the rest, I'm not going to address that again in order to avoid being too repetitive. If you want you can go back and read my previous post. You know, the one that you replied to just to say that you refused to read it, since I actually addressed all of these points there.

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Again, Brooklyn is not necessarily closer for commuting purposes, as has been explained. Distance in terms of mileage isn't as important as commuting time.
The only exceptions I can see is living by the G in Greenpoint or Williamsburg where you can do the transfer at Court Square. Maybe the L too, but I consider the L to be a Downtown train. I still consider proximity to Brooklyn a plus for 2WTC, as Silverstein himself has said.
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Last edited by nylkoorB; Sep 13, 2017 at 12:44 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #4613  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nylkoorB View Post
But it is true though.
Brooklyn is way closer and more accessible to Downtown than Midtown. That is a fact and I didn't think it was even possible to deny that.

Depends on the subway line. Some lines bypass the financial district altogether.

But we have gone way, way off course here. A decision will be made for what is the best choice and preference overall. I'm hoping the fact that Deutsche Bank is Downtown will work out in favor for Tower 2. And if it doesn't, we'll continue to wait, 3 WTC will fill up, and the inevitable spillover will take it's course.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 12:50 AM
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According to the Downtown Alliance. At the end of Q2, 1WTC is 75% leased, 4WTC is fully leased, and 3WTC is 28% leased. So also important to keep tabs on those percentages. http://www.downtownny.com/reports/lo...erview-q2-2017
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 1:07 AM
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Depends on the subway line. Some lines bypass the financial district altogether.

But we have gone way, way off course here. A decision will be made for what is the best choice and preference overall. I'm hoping the fact that Deutsche Bank is Downtown will work out in favor for Tower 2. And if it doesn't, we'll continue to wait, 3 WTC will fill up, and the inevitable spillover will take it's course.
Lower Manhattan is much more than just the Financial District. TonyNYC gets it.

The Financial District is a weird place though and I think it's safe to say that it has never been the same since 9/11 and probably never will be ever again. I feel like Fidi is trying to make a comeback and also simultaneously re-invent and rebrand itself, and it's been making great progress but it isn't fully there yet so it's kind of at an awkward time. It's been becoming increasingly residential in the last few years, so I'm hoping that will help. I think if DB returns to the WTC and finishes the complex once and for all, it will be a significant moment in the rebound of the neighborhood, and a really nice success story. But if DB becomes yet another company to flee for Midtown then that would actually be a really huge disappointment, maybe the biggest one yet in this whole saga. At least the other WTC buildings seem to be filling up nicely though. That's a good sign.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 1:13 AM
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Lower Manhattan is much more than just the Financial District. TonyNYC gets it.
As far as is relevant to this conversation, Lower Manhattan is the financial district, where this office space will be. Whatever other parts of lower Manhattan you are referencing is irrelevant here. There are subway lines from Brooklyn that bypass the financial district altogether.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 2:00 AM
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As far as is relevant to this conversation, Lower Manhattan is the financial district, where this office space will be. Whatever other parts of lower Manhattan you are referencing is irrelevant here. There are subway lines from Brooklyn that bypass the financial district altogether.
True. Same is for Hudson Yards and Midtown though. I really think the recent growth in Brooklyn can be a huge plus for the WTC though and could possibly play a factor in all this. As Crawford even said, things have changed. Bankers and other working Professionals are just as likely to be living in Brooklyn than far out suburbs in Long Island, Connecticut, or Upstate. There's no denying that Brooklyn's recent growth can be used as an advantage to Downtown.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 2:04 AM
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True. Same is for Hudson Yards and Midtown though. I really think the recent growth in Brooklyn can be a huge plus for the WTC though and could possibly play a factor in all this. As Crawford even said, things have changed. Bankers and other working Professionals are just as likely to be living in Brooklyn than far out suburbs in Long Island, Connecticut, or Upstate. There's no denying that Brooklyn's recent growth can be used as an advantage to Downtown.
Brooklyn itself has a very low vacancy rate and is seeking to expand (see various threads). The general consensus is that Downtown is much better than it was pre 9/11. But that doesn't change the fact that there will always be those companies the will prefer to remain in Midtown. But I think Downtown has the home field in this case.
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  #4619  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 4:28 PM
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The irony...


https://therealdeal.com/2017/09/19/d...lenders-in-q2/

Deutsche Bank was the top dog among NYC lenders in Q2


By Konrad Putzier
September 19, 2017


Quote:
Nine months after agreeing to a $7.2 billion settlement with U.S. regulators, Deutsche Bank is on top of the New York City real estate lending world.

The German institution topped CrediFi’s ranking of the most active lenders in the second quarter with $1.5 billion to $2 billion in loan originations ahead of Wells Fargo and Morgan Stanley. It ranked fourth in the first quarter.

Two big-ticket loans helped Deutsche Bank over the top: the $2.3 billion refinancing of Boston Properties’ GM Building and the $1.75 billion mortgage to fund HNA Group’s acquisition of 245 Park Avenue.

“Commercial real estate has always been an important part of [Deutsche Bank’s] DNA going all the way back to its Bankers Trust days, and will continue to be so in the future,” Matt Borstein, the bank’s global head of CRE, told The Real Deal
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  #4620  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2017, 1:19 PM
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Will the WTC be Amazon’s new home?
The 6.8M sf site hope to lure the tech giant
September 29, 2017

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The World Trade Center is among several sites competing for Amazon’s second headquarters.

The city’s received more than two dozen proposals to vie for the company, which is looking for at least 500,000 square feet by 2019 and as much as 8 million square feet by over the next 10 years, Politico reported. Larry Silverstein, the Downtown Alliance and the Durst Organization submitted the plan for the city.

The World Trade Center has roughly 6.8 million square feet of office space available.
Silverstein is still searching for an anchor tenant for the Bjarke Ingels-designed 2 World Trade Center, which would span 2.8 million square feet. There’s 700,000 to 800,000 square feet available at One World Trade Center, 1.8 million at 3 World Trade Center and another 1.5 million square feet at the former Deutsche Bank site, which hasn’t been built yet.
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