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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2012, 12:56 AM
RobertWalpole RobertWalpole is offline
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These apartments will be very expensive, so something nice should rise here.
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2012, 2:39 AM
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^ It has sweeping unblocked views of Central Park, (at 500+ feet). So they have a right to be expensive. I trust Pelli to give us a (WFC/Petronas) quality design.
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2012, 2:40 AM
RobertWalpole RobertWalpole is offline
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I agree.
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  #44  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 4:09 AM
babybackribs2314 babybackribs2314 is offline
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Steven Roth had this to say about 220 CPS:

http://dcrealestate.citybizlist.com/...SlsEoY.twitter

"We hear that the 1,000 foot tall, direct park-view apartment tower under construction on 57th Street is pricing at $6,500 per square foot. Our 220 Central Park South site, just down the block, is better."

If this one is super skinny--which would make sense if Roth & Barnett make some kind of compromise re: blocking future views from 225 W57th--it could rise much taller than 550'. This building had 240k SF of FAR back in '06 (some have mentioned the lot has come to include more properties/FAR?), and 105 West 57th is tentatively 670' at 105K square feet.

Barnett also controls 225 West 58th, where Extell proposed an 18-story 66K SF residential building a few years ago. Some kind of deal would do well to benefit both partners, especially if Barnett can ensure his views stay maximized (and Vornado's tower gained air rights to 300k total feet). If that occurred, something in the 700' range could happen I think. The Central Park panorama may be better than that of the WTC come 2020, with this, One57, 105 W57th, 432 Park, and possibly Torre Verre & 225 W57th all complete by then.

Last edited by babybackribs2314; Apr 17, 2012 at 4:28 AM.
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  #45  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 7:13 AM
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^^ Haha, the war on "who's got the better view" has just begun. You better build tall nowadays or you're screwed. I like that.
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  #46  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2012, 1:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 View Post
Steven Roth had this to say about 220 CPS:

http://dcrealestate.citybizlist.com/...SlsEoY.twitter

"We hear that the 1,000 foot tall, direct park-view apartment tower under construction on 57th Street is pricing at $6,500 per square foot. Our 220 Central Park South site, just down the block, is better."

The buyers will decide that, Mr. Roth. But we hope you give us something nice to look at, and get 15 Penn built while you're at it!
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  #47  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 10:43 AM
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ESecondStories

NY REAL ESTATE COMMERCIALApril 29, 2012, 10:52 p.m. ET.Standoff at Central Park .
Article Comments more in NewYork-Real Estate | Find New $LINKTEXTFIND$ ».
Email Print Save ↓ More .
.smaller Larger By ELIOT BROWN


Quote:
The exterior of 220 Central Park South, which is slated for demolition so a new tower can be built in its place.

Mr. Barnett's Extell Development Co., which is developing the soaring 1,004-foot One57 condominium tower one block to the east, bought into the lease of the underground parking garage in Vornado's building a few years ago, according to people familiar with the matter. It runs about five more years, the people said.

Thus far Mr. Barnett has resisted Vornado's attempts to rid him from the building through a buyout or settlement. But now Vornado is stepping up the pressure as it moves forward with demolition preparations, which call for tearing down the building above the garage, stopping at the second floor.

Talks between the two sides also are continuing. "We're trying to take down the building and then we'll come up with a first-class building," Vornado's chief executive, Michael Fascitelli, said in a brief interview last week.

As to Mr. Barnett, he said, "We have a little issue there, but we're trying to resolve it."

Extell, however, believes tearing down the building atop the garage could be dangerous.

"We think it would show very poor judgment to attempt to demolish an occupied building, especially when there is no possibility of construction for a number of years. God forbid something bad happens for no purpose," a spokesman said in a statement. "We have the greatest respect for the leadership of Vornado and would be surprised if they actually moved to demolish."

Vornado, one of the city's largest office and retail landlords, filed with the city for demolition permits last month. Scaffolding is going up on the edges of the white-brick building, which was cleared of residential tenants in 2010.

Should the two sides fail to strike a deal, Vornado could still proceed with demolition. But demolition would likely be more complex and expensive if the garage isn't vacated.

Write to Eliot Brown at eliot.brown@wsj.com

Last edited by NYguy; Apr 30, 2012 at 10:36 PM.
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  #48  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 4:42 PM
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Hopefully, with all the additional air rights Vornado has since purchased, and with small footprint (necessitated by agreement with Extell), we'll be getting another very tall tower.

I imagine a 1,000 ft+ tower on this site would smash sales records.
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  #49  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 5:20 PM
babybackribs2314 babybackribs2314 is offline
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Do you have details on the additional air rights acquired? I know they had 240k SF in '06. Possibly 300-400k now?

That still isn't all that much for a supertall, considering One57 has 1M SF, but if a tower was extremely slender/1-2 floors per unit, it could certainly be possible (just look at the height/width ratio on 432 Park...).
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  #50  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 View Post
Do you have details on the additional air rights acquired? I know they had 240k SF in '06. Possibly 300-400k now?
No, I have no insider details, but I know that Vornado reported the purchase of additional air rights in some of their past quarterly filings.

I'm just hoping that the small footprint would yield a tall tower, because you know Extell isn't going to allow blocked views from their 58th street development site.
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  #51  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 6:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
No, I have no insider details, but I know that Vornado reported the purchase of additional air rights in some of their past quarterly filings.

I'm just hoping that the small footprint would yield a tall tower, because you know Extell isn't going to allow blocked views from their 58th street development site.
Agreed. I don't think this will top 1k feet, but 700'+ is likely given the additional FAR, which will still make a big impact given this is on the park.

Funny how the neighborhood is such a mish-mash of properties between various developers. You would think they would work together & swap lots etc for mutual benefit, but everything in this city is cut-throat.
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  #52  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 6:34 PM
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Petty.
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  #53  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 View Post
Funny how the neighborhood is such a mish-mash of properties between various developers. You would think they would work together & swap lots etc for mutual benefit, but everything in this city is cut-throat.
That's some prime real estate as far as residential goes. Everyone wants their own slice of the pie.
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  #54  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
The buyers will decide that, Mr. Roth. But we hope you give us something nice to look at, and get 15 Penn built while you're at it!
I assume he is attributing this to the fact that it is on a more prestigious street with safe unobstructed park views for a lifetime. I think I know what building I'd chose between them. This one. The location is obviously better despite design or height factors. Location is King, and this one has an amazing one. Central Park South is a beautiful street, more pleasant than 57th street in most people's minds I'm sure. Just the fact that you could cross the street into the Park is a major plus. I'm pretty confident that Roth is right, and that this building will turn out to be the more sought after building.
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  #55  
Old Posted May 1, 2012, 12:59 PM
RobertWalpole RobertWalpole is offline
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Maybe that's why Barnett is trying to block this project for five years. By that time, One 57 and 225 W 57th should be sold out and won't have to compete with 220 CPS.
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  #56  
Old Posted May 10, 2012, 7:59 PM
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Just trying to illustrate some of the scenarios being bandied about.



Green is Vornado properties, red is Extell properties. The yellow part is the western half of the site, which wouldn't block the 225 tower as much. The yellow portion is the same size as 432 Park's footprint; 100'x100'.

I'm not sure who owns 231 w58, as its listed as owned by 231 w58th street PLC, which I don't know who own it, undoubtedly either by Extell or Vornado.

Still, it would be a very tough sell for Extell to convince Vornado to not build directly on CPS.
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  #57  
Old Posted May 11, 2012, 2:30 AM
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^ It all depends on just how high Vornado gets. The higher they get, the more slender the tower. But Extell if flirting with going higher as well, and could potentially go higher than 432 Park. It will be an issue, but it may or may not be as much of an issue. In my mind, they're both on Central Park.
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  #58  
Old Posted May 11, 2012, 7:12 AM
babybackribs2314 babybackribs2314 is offline
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
^ It all depends on just how high Vornado gets. The higher they get, the more slender the tower. But Extell if flirting with going higher as well, and could potentially go higher than 432 Park. It will be an issue, but it may or may not be as much of an issue. In my mind, they're both on Central Park.
Semantics matter more to oil sheikhs and oligarchs, which is why 220 CPS will command higher rents than both 225 W57th and One57. These things are marginally significant but even though they barely matter to us, the difference in per square foot cost for very expensive apartments can be quite large. There's a reason 15 CPW is the most expensive in the city, and it's the CPW address.
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  #59  
Old Posted May 14, 2012, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 View Post
Semantics matter more to oil sheikhs and oligarchs, which is why 220 CPS will command higher rents than both 225 W57th and One57. These things are marginally significant but even though they barely matter to us, the difference in per square foot cost for very expensive apartments can be quite large. There's a reason 15 CPW is the most expensive in the city, and it's the CPW address.
Anything with CP in the address is considered gold.
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  #60  
Old Posted May 14, 2012, 8:55 PM
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Robert A.M. Stern Designing Finally-in-Progress 220 CPS?

Monday, May 14, 2012, by Sara Polsky



"The long developer face-off at 220 Central Park South may finally be coming to an end. Keen real estate observer Michael Gross notices that the building's rear facade is thoroughly scaffolded and that it was covered with workers this morning, "likely signaling its imminent demolition." That seems in line with site owner Vornado's most recent plan for the building, to demolish everything above the second floor even though Gary Barnett, owner of 220 Central Park South's underground parking garage, has refused to make way. Will Barnett change his mind now that Vornado's making some serious moves?

And we mean starchitect-level serious. Gross hears from a few sources that Robert A.M. Stern has been asked to design the future 220 Central Park South (which Vornado chair Steven Roth promised would be better than Extell's One57). No permits have been filed, so we don't know whether Stern is on board—but if Vornado is looking for a One57-killer, that's certainly one way to do it."
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