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  #641  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2017, 12:22 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Oh I certainly blame him, but I place more blame on the city of NY for letting the whole mess start in the first place and allowing Penn to be demolished and MSG put there. Dolan is not the whole story here. After all, he's just another business owner looking to make as much profit as possible. The city has a responsibility of good stewardship and they made a choice.

I also think this is the end for Penn Station's possible redevelopment. Sad, but there doesn't seem to be other sites that Dolan would find appealing available in the area unless something massively changes. No doubt, the annex is now off the table unless something crazy happened down the line and the developers were willing to do another deal - unlikely if the mall and office space is successful.

What Penn really needed was fundamental track changes, not just pretty head houses. The current project is a nice improvement over the old place for Amtrak and some LIRR pax, but it doesn't serve enough people, doesn't fix the transport and capacity issues with Penn Station, and doesn't help fix the old Penn's ugly appearance.
Moynihan Station has nothing to do with the MSG site and its future prospects. They're completely unrelated.

MSG has about seven years left before they will be forced to leave, BTW.

There are actually three unrelated projects going on that will eventually connect to the existing Penn: 1. Moynihan Station (which is basically just a train hall for the existing platforms), 2. MSG (which will either be demolished or repurposed as a train hall/mixed use redevelopment) and 3. Gateway (which will be a new train terminal/platforms, built underground, to the south, connected to the existing Penn).

Moynihan is an LIRR and Amtrak project (though Metro North will probably replace Amtrak once Gateway is built), Gateway is an Amtrak project (and possibly NJ Transit) and MSG is unclear at this point.
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  #642  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2017, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
I would agree with the optimism over the retail, especially in this location.

Regarding Moynihan Station, while not the perfect solution we're getting a lot better than we have now. It's definitely something welcome even if for the foreseeable future Dolan's presence with MSG limits what can be done with Penn Station itself.
Cuomo still has plans for the "MSG" portion of Penn Station, including opening some parts up to daylight....

https://www.designboom.com/architect...rk-01-08-2016/
























Remembering an earlier plan...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/ny...n.html?mcubz=0
New Grandeur for Penn Station in Latest Plan

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
JULY 4, 2007

Quote:
In the next three weeks, two of the city’s largest developers will unveil new plans for rebuilding the station, moving Madison Square Garden, replacing the Hotel Pennsylvania, and erecting a pair of skyscrapers, one of which would be taller than the Empire State Building, over the site of the existing station.

Though the new plan is broadly similar to a proposal offered a year ago, it is different in several important ways, starting with the cost: $14 billion, double that of the original plan, a real estate executive who has seen the plan said. It is also bigger than anticipated: the entire plan, involving buildings on six adjacent blocks, would create 10 million square feet of new office space off West 33rd Street, as much as in the old World Trade Center.

...The new plan would try to recapture the imposing aura of the original station inside the James A. Farley Post Office across the street, with a vast, street-level waiting room under a glass canopy that would spill sunlight onto the concourse two levels below.

...The developers also have yet to hammer out a final deal with the owners of Madison Square Garden, Cablevision and the Dolan family, to move the Garden to the western part of the Farley building, which would be the arena’s fifth home in 132 years. The two sides have a nonbinding agreement.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...-before-moving

MSG wants Farley alterations before moving
The most striking change to the James A. Farley Post Office would be the installation of a huge glass wall between the train hall and the Garden.


By Anne Michaud
October 16, 2007

Quote:
The Dolan family, which owns Madison Square Garden, is requesting significant alterations to the James A. Farley Post Office interior as part of an agreement to move MSG into the building’s western annex, say two people who participated in a state-sponsored tour last week.

The most striking change would be the installation of a huge glass wall between the proposed train hall and MSG, which the Garden wants in order to better advertise events. Garden officials also want to expand two large arches that lead from the post office area into the train hall, and create four arches instead.

Peg Breen, president of the New York Landmarks Conservancy, says the changes skew the project too far from the public interest.

“Neither one of these things is necessary for the Garden to have a successful move,” she says. “This started out as a project to provide a great gateway to New York, and it is turning into a lobby for the Garden.”



The window for putting a new MSG into the Farley has passed, but it would have went something like this...















A few more looks...



http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showth...=3579&page=166












I don't know if anyone here remembers the original plans to put office towers into the back side of the Farley Building. There was a design contest with about 5 or so firms submitting plans.
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  #643  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2017, 5:26 PM
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“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.

Last edited by NYguy; Aug 25, 2017 at 5:38 PM.
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  #644  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2017, 7:10 PM
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NYguy,

Admittedly I haven't read through the thread, so entertain me. But I was wondering about some of the logistics of this project in particular.

- Will this be considered a new station, or do we think it's numbers will be reported with Penn Station's when it's operational?

- In that same vein, are trains/platforms being moved to Moynihan, or is this project simply creating a new access to particular platforms. Regardless, what in particular is Moynihan taking from Penn Station in terms of service/access/platforms?

Thanks. Love this project.
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  #645  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2017, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LMich View Post
NYguy,

- Will this be considered a new station, or do we think it's numbers will be reported with Penn Station's when it's operational?

- In that same vein, are trains/platforms being moved to Moynihan, or is this project simply creating a new access to particular platforms. Regardless, what in particular is Moynihan taking from Penn Station in terms of service/access/platforms?

Thanks. Love this project.

You could consider it an expanded Penn Station, because that's what it will be more or less. But it will be the focal point of Penn Station. The platforms are being extended. The Amtrak and LIRR trains will terminate there, LIRR will also utilize the existing platforms as well as NJ Transit (though Cuomo claims no LIRR passenger will ever have to enter the old Penn Station again).

It's similar in a way to the new LIRR terminal at Grand Central, though that one will have new patforms built underneath existing ones. It will all flow together as one station.

Eventually, when the Hotel Pennsylvania is demolished, we will have a direct connection to the PATH terminal, as well as more subway lines. That will be very similar to the current Fulton Terminal - WTC PATH Station - Brookfield Place continuous pedestrian concourse. It will stretch from 6th Ave & Broadway all the way to 9th Avenue and the Hudson Yards.
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  #646  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2017, 9:10 PM
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When the new Gateway tunnels are completed, we could get an expanded station to the south that would look something like this...


http://www.realtransit.org/nec17.php






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  #647  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2017, 11:15 PM
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So, essentially, Moynihan Station replaces the operations of the LIRR and Amtrak at Penn Station? Does this mean NJ Transit operations stay in Penn Station proper? Just trying to figure out of the three services which ones will be mainly accessed through which "station" as it sounds like Penn Station proper is basically going to lose it's "main" status and become the "back" of the house. Thanks!
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  #648  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2017, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by LMich View Post
So, essentially, Moynihan Station replaces the operations of the LIRR and Amtrak at Penn Station? Does this mean NJ Transit operations stay in Penn Station proper? Just trying to figure out of the three services which ones will be mainly accessed through which "station" as it sounds like Penn Station proper is basically going to lose it's "main" status and become the "back" of the house. Thanks!
NJ Transit has a concourse of it's own on the 7th Ave (eastern) end of Penn Station. I don't use it, preferring to stay on the west end and exiting through the LIRR portion of the east end when I do. Or I can exit through the Amtrak wing, which is also on the upper level of the station. But it really depends on which part of the train you are on when you arrive. For example, if I'm closer to the back of the train, and I'm going to the west side, I will exit through the Farley Building, which currently has the west end concourse open.


At the end of this clip, you can see the concourse connections currently under Farley...


Video Link




This clip also explains it a little better...



Video Link
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  #649  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2017, 5:02 PM
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When the new Gateway tunnels are completed, we could get an expanded station to the south that would look something like this...
Feels more like it's a question of IF they are ever completed (at least in our lifetimes).

I mean seriously, nothing is getting done and even ESA which is under construction has seen 15 years of delays. I'm 32 years old, but if this is built at the same rate of speed of ESA I'll be retired before it's ready to ferry me to work.
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  #650  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2017, 1:43 AM
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Feels more like it's a question of IF they are ever completed (at least in our lifetime.

I mean seriously, nothing is getting done and even ESA which is under construction has seen 15 years of delays. I'm 32 years old, but if this is built at the same rate of speed of ESA I'll be retired before it's ready to ferry me to work.
It'll get done if only because they have no choice. The current tunnel WILL have to be shut down.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKBN1AQ2J8

New York train tunnel project hires expert in public-private finance

Hilary Russ
August 10, 2017

Quote:
The Gateway Program, which includes building a new tunnel underneath New York’s Hudson River, has hired a private financing expert from French bank Societe Generale as interim chief financial officer, the program said on Thursday.

Gateway Program Development Corporation trustees said at a board meeting that Francis Sacr, who headed Societe’s (SOGN.PA) infrastructure finance team for the Americas, will oversee financing for the $24 billion joint effort between national rail company Amtrak, New Jersey and New York to improve a critical train traffic chokepoint on Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor.


http://newjersey.news12.com/story/36...tunnel-project

Quote:
The Federal Railroad Association and New Jersey Transit held a series of public meetings Thursday to provide updates on the Gateway Tunnel Project.

The tunnel, which will connect New Jersey to Manhattan, is still in the early stages, with a groundbreaking not set until 2019.

Thursday’s meetings come as environmental impact studies for the tunnel are being completed.

Officials say that the tunnel could take seven years to complete once construction begins. Work will then begin on repairing the current Hudson River rail tunnel, which carries about 450 trains per day.

Rail officials say that there is urgency to get both projects complete because the current tunnel is 106 years old and was damaged during Superstorm Sandy.

Lawmakers have said that if the current tunnel were to be put out of commission before a new one is in place it would paralyze travel between the two states.

Several environmental groups attended Thursday’s meeting. They say that the new tunnel will allow more people to travel to and from New York by rail, decreasing the amount of cars on the road.

“The Gateway Project is the most important infrastructure project in the country,” says Somerset County Freeholder Peter Palmer. “This is the first step. Let’s get on with it.”

The new tunnel will cost about $10 billion to construct and another $2 billion to repair the current tunnel.
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  #651  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2017, 1:27 AM
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  #652  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 2:06 AM
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Massive crane was on site today. Things are starting to get interesting here.
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  #653  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 2:56 PM
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I can't be the only one who honestly thought that this would never happen.

In somewhat related news, Gateway might actually happen too...
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  #654  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 4:39 PM
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supposedly trump is on board with gateway:

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/...icle-1.3477367
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  #655  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 12:26 AM
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All of the pieces are coming together.


The crane is up. Looks like there may be another going up.


SEPTEMBER 10, 2017






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  #656  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 12:58 AM
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SEPTEMBER 16, 2017


















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  #657  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 3:47 AM
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Would make sense to have one crane on either side of the courtyard ...
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  #658  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 2:44 PM
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let's be on the lookout for construction twitter/instagram pics inside --

i would like to see what it looks like while they are working with the big cranes up in there.
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  #659  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2017, 1:38 AM
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Let me just say that that crane now looks extra ominous when it's hanging over 31st Street. Very long.
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  #660  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2017, 4:18 AM
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When and if they do the Penn South concourses they should make space for the L and 7 trains to be connected to the station as well. Linking those two lines would be a smart idea.
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