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  #21  
Old Posted May 19, 2015, 2:26 PM
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Finally, a Look at LICH's Hated Residential Conversion

Tuesday, May 19, 2015
Emily Nonko

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Cobble Hill residents fought hard to save Long Island College Hospital, but the long battle over ownership will ultimately end with the complex in the hands of Fortis Property Group. And last night, the developer gave the first look at the hospital's next life as a megaproject with four towers, 820 apartments, new retail, and a medical center. Fortis presented its redevelopment plan to a crowd of very angry Cobble Hill residents, many of whom fought tirelessly to save the hospital before it ultimately sold to Fortis for $240 million. Upon loss of the hospital, the Cobble Hill Association, which organized last night's meeting, came up with a list of development guidelines for the 20-building hospital campus. It included, among other things, contextual design to the neighborhood's brownstones, no glass facades, and a height limit of 50 feet. What they got instead was over 1 million square feet of development that includes 30-story and 40-story towers.



Dan Kaplan of the architecture firm FXFOWLE presented the plans on behalf of Fortis. He first presented the plan that can be built as-of-right on the site, which the developers do not want to move ahead with. As-of-right development allows for a 14-story building, 19-story building, and 44-story building with parks, retail, and community space. (While the majority of Cobble Hill is landmarked with a 50-foot height limit, this particular site is not.)



Instead, the developers want to go through the Uniform Land Use Review Procedure to roughly double the amount of allowable square footage for residential development with a 16-story tower, 20-story tower, 30-story, and 40-story tower. The proposal includes building seven new townhouses along the south side of Amity Street, renovating the landmarked Polhemus Building for residential use, and adding a six-story addition to a former H-shaped hospital building, plus building new residential towers. It would also create new parks and retail. The height of the towers will grow denser toward the west end of the site, with the 40-story tower located on the corner of Atlantic Avenue and Hicks Street. Kaplan said the developers are considering building out a school on the ground floor.

In total, there will be 892,000 square feet of market-rate housing (roughly 600 units), and 223,000 square feet of affordable housing (220 units). There will also be 450 parking spaces, 27,850 square feet of park space, and a new health care center run by NYU Langone. There is no timeline yet for ULURP, but Fortis is expected to close on the property in the near future. Kaplan promised that the development team would work with the community through their concerns.

The community took many issues with the proposal, with one resident calling it "kind of disturbing." Another resident told Fortis, "This is going to break the community." And others seemed ready for a development fight: "This is going to be a war," said one man. "Eighty percent of the people in this room are attorneys and they will be all up in your ass."

Residents did not like the 55-foot height of the Amity Street townhouses (↓), feeling that those properties should adhere to the rest of the neighborhood's 50-foot limit. They also felt like the retail build-out on Pacific Street between Hicks and Henry Streets (↑), a block that's currently closed off to the public, did not fit the neighborhood. Many others were worried about the impact such a large-scale development would have on the neighborhood, especially in regards to parking, schools and infrastructure.

Others asked Council Member Brad Lander if they had any power to keep this development from happening at all. As he pointed out, the as-of-right development already allows for a significant amount of density. But Council Member Lander, who also fought hard to save the hospital, told the crowd, "You'd be fools not to be very angry about what's happened to Cobble Hill."
Check the link for more images:http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/0...conversion.php
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  #22  
Old Posted May 19, 2015, 3:28 PM
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Oh, the NIMBYs will just love this! I can hear the gnashing of teeth already.

Given that DeBlasio seems to care about little besides subsidized housing and "equality", here's hoping that this will sail through pretty easily. Crazy NIMBY brownstoners aren't likely to have a receptive ear.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 19, 2015, 4:15 PM
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"This is going to be a war," said one man. "Eighty percent of the people in this room are attorneys and they will be all up in your ass."
What a class act. Is there a way to lock them up in that room and let them eat each other?
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  #24  
Old Posted May 19, 2015, 5:27 PM
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LOL, you gotta love those NIMBYs.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 21, 2015, 10:12 AM
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The problem is, this location just isn't well equipped for high-density development- it's at least a 15 minute walk to the nearest subway.

While I'm 100% for the development at the Atlantic Yards (build much bigger there, I say), I'd prefer if this remained one of the city's quiet corners.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 21, 2015, 1:10 PM
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It's not going to stop being quiet just because 600 apartments are added.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 21, 2015, 4:57 PM
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The problem is, this location just isn't well equipped for high-density development- it's at least a 15 minute walk to the nearest subway.

While I'm 100% for the development at the Atlantic Yards (build much bigger there, I say), I'd prefer if this remained one of the city's quiet corners.
It's five or six blocks from Borough Hall. It'll be a quicker walk than what most people currently do on the Upper East Side.
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  #28  
Old Posted May 21, 2015, 9:03 PM
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Yeah on the walking time, it doesn't stop units from being sold. If we look at property maps of sales for this cycle, many units deviate from being close to the subway. People will walk if they can get a good deal. These, like most projects, will sell out relatively quickly.
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  #29  
Old Posted May 21, 2015, 10:33 PM
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It's not going to stop being quiet just because 600 apartments are added.
This is true. There's a misconception by people that an area gets crowded and noisy when there are new buildings but from observations that is not true. Look at the towers along the waterfront JC, LIC, Riverside South and even Battery Park City and walk around the streets there. They are some of the most quiet and have little pedestrian activity than many lowrise neighborhoods.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 22, 2015, 1:51 AM
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Close to my neighborhood! Maybe I can attend one of these meetings and speak out in support of the project. Our, protest its unseemingly scale, next to ye Olde Quaint Rowhouse district...

btw its a 10 minute walk to the 12345 trains, which are the fastest and most reliable subways in the city.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 4:06 PM
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I'd say it's like one of those movies where the crazy and deranged person says, "I have to kill you because I love you", or "In order to save you, I have to kill you". Same thing.


http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...k-or-saving-it

They're either killing New York or saving it
Behold the masters of derailing projects in the city—and the playbook they use to drive developers crazy.



By Andrew J. Hawkins
July 27, 2015


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The owners of the New York Mets planned to build a shopping mall in a parking area next to Citi Field. They expected resistance—there always is in New York—but not from the son of the architect who helped invent the shopping mall.

Unlike his father, Michael Gruen doesn't create shopping malls. He stops them.

In early July, a state judge sided with Mr. Gruen and ruled that the mall, Willets West, could not proceed because the parking lot it would replace was technically parkland.

"Parks are parks," said Mr. Gruen.

Ever since Jane Jacobs held a ceremony to celebrate killing Robert Moses' Lower Manhattan

Expressway in 1958, residents of varying stripes have gummed up the works for developers across the city. Depending on one's point of view, they are either saviors of old New York or NIMBY ("not in my backyard") cranks.

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"Because they're noisy, communicate with one another and the press, vote in primaries and show up to poorly attended community-board meetings, they can bend the ears of local politicians and affect project outcomes," one developer said. "This should not be confused with healthy community dialogue or genuine community-based planning."

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Real estate cheerleaders like Nikolai Fedek, founder and editor of YIMBY, argue that younger city dwellers do not share the vehemence held by older residents toward development. To him, NIMBYists are on the wane.

"They still have an impact on neighborhoods in Manhattan, like the West Village," Mr. Fedek said. "But as you look out in Brooklyn, you don't have as much reactionary NIMBYism as you do in Manhattan, and I think that's mostly because they're not so rich and they're not so white and they're not so useless.”

Quote:
Roy Sloane's reputation as a fighter was cemented with a bottle of water. The president of the Cobble Hill Association in Brooklyn once proposed bottling Gowanus Canal water for government officials who wanted housing built along the polluted waterway.

"If you don't think it needs to be cleaned up, here's water from the Gowanus—go for it," said Mr. Sloane. "I try to use humor to deal with things." His allies talked him out of that one.

Mr. Sloane's organization is fighting Fortis Property Group's plan to build luxury residential towers, one of which would be 44 stories, on the site of the shuttered Long Island College Hospital. (Memorably, then-candidate Bill de Blasio got himself arrested in 2013 to protest the institution's closure and boost his mayoral campaign.)

The towers would loom over the neat, low-rise brownstones of the neighborhood, which decades ago was cleaved in two by a trench for the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway—another project of Robert Moses—and has nonetheless become one of the borough's most desirable communities. The developer also proposed to build a school, create open space and add other amenities to satisfy residents' concerns. Still, the plan would be the "kiss of death" for the neighborhood, Mr. Sloane said.

Mr. Sloane's love for his community burns hot. He has lived in Cobble Hill for more than 40 years, but says he would decamp to his peach farm upstate if his favorite Middle Eastern grocery on Atlantic Avenue were to get priced out.

"If Sahadi's goes, I go," he said.

He uses an argument common among development foes: He doesn't consider himself “anti-development,” but he opposes the added density. He has no plans, however, to send bottles of toxic water to Fortis. Sources close to the developer say he has been more reasonable to deal with than they expected.

Still, the project is not likely to win over opponents. Just last week, a new legal challenge was initiated.

"This is going to be a decade-long battle—this is war!" one man shouted during a May presentation by Fortis, according to The Brooklyn Paper.

"Eighty percent of the people in this room are attorneys, and they will be up your ass every step of the way."



Ray Sloane, president of the Cobble Hill Association in Brooklyn, opposes the planned luxury residential development at the old Long Island City College site.




http://www.brooklyneagle.com/article...llege-hospital

Brooklyn judge finalizes sale of Long Island College Hospital


By Mary Frost
July 24, 2015


Quote:
On Thursday, a Brooklyn judge signed an order finalizing the State University of New York’s (SUNY) sale of Long Island College Hospital (LICH) to developer Fortis Property Group.

The approval, after years of litigation and community opposition, clears the way for the development of the former hospital site in Cobble Hill, Brooklyn. The site includes roughly 20 properties bounded by the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Atlantic Avenue, Clinton Street and Congress Street.





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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2015, 4:59 PM
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fuck that guy--what an asshole. If I see this decaying boomer in the area, I'll tell him a piece of my mind. We need more supply - enough with the "English basements" renting for $5000/month.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2015, 3:53 AM
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Those silly mother****ers. Get a life.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2015, 5:31 AM
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Well, I for one am glad that they are fighting over these legitimate quality of life concerns. Parking and traffic will get worse with more units added, plus 50 story towers will look at of place here.

Let these developers build somewhere else but not here.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2015, 7:16 AM
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For once im with the Nimbys...
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2015, 3:01 PM
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^ I'm not. This is one site in the neighborhood where development is going to happen, whether they like it or not. Simply being against something for the sake of keeping everything the way it is is just a kneejerk reaction. People have to face the inevitable reality that they are living in the greatest city on earth. And with that comes more people. If they can't accept that, then maybe it's time to do like that guy, and move to some "peach farm" upstate.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2015, 4:37 PM
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^ I'm not. This is one site in the neighborhood where development is going to happen, whether they like it or not. Simply being against something for the sake of keeping everything the way it is is just a kneejerk reaction. People have to face the inevitable reality that they are living in the greatest city on earth. And with that comes more people. If they can't accept that, then maybe it's time to do like that guy, and move to some "peach farm" upstate.
Im sorry i have to disagree with you, i know we love skyscrapers on this site but that doesnt mean that there always a good idea, especially in such a historic neighborhood with a unique urban fabric such as Brooklyn Heights. This was Americas first suburb and while im not anti development to improve the neighborhood i am against the height in this case. Its completely out of context and doesnt relate well to the fabric that the Brownstones create.

Something a bit more classical with a reduced height would work well here. This tower is just as out of place as Tour Montparnasse in Paris. Wiliamsburg and greenpoints new towers are more appropriate for its waterfront properties because there displaced from the industrial-residential nature of those neighborhoods. Manhattan is different from Brooklyn and both have different needs and urban planning techniques.

Lets remember that just because you can build tall doesnt mean you always should. As skyscraper enthusiast its imporant to realize where skyscrapers have been failures and fail the community they inhabit. All places need their La Defense and Issy-les-Moulineaux, its insturmental in maintaining the cultural integrity of any city.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2015, 5:36 PM
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Im sorry i have to disagree with you, i know we love skyscrapers on this site but that doesnt mean that there always a good idea, especially in such a historic neighborhood with a unique urban fabric such as Brooklyn Heights. This was Americas first suburb and while im not anti development to improve the neighborhood i am against the height in this case. Its completely out of context and doesnt relate well to the fabric that the Brownstones create.
Out of context? We're not talking about towers placed in the center of a Brownstone neighborhood. That's clearly not what this is. It's on the waterfront. In that first rendering, you can see the towers of Downtown Brooklyn. These towers will no more destroy the neighborhood than those Downtown towers equally (if not more) imosing, and bordering on the neighborhood as well.


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Lets remember that just because you can build tall doesnt mean you always should.
It's all about the economics. If it made more sense for them to build smaller, economically, then I'm sure they would go with that option. That's something these NIMBYs rarely grab. It's not always about the height.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2015, 5:52 PM
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Out of context? We're not talking about towers placed in the center of a Brownstone neighborhood. That's clearly not what this is. It's on the waterfront. In that first rendering, you can see the towers of Downtown Brooklyn. These towers will no more destroy the neighborhood than those Downtown towers equally (if not more) imosing, and bordering on the neighborhood as well.




It's all about the economics. If it made more sense for them to build smaller, economically, then I'm sure they would go with that option. That's something these NIMBYs rarely grab. It's not always about the height.
Yes i wholistically agree that economics drives the buisness but im talking about good urban planning. You'd never put a skyscraper near the mall in DC, correct? While this is on the waterfront, the streets surrounding the site are packed with lowrises that are mostly brownstones and prewar buisnesses.

This site sits right in Cobble Hill which is different from the Downtown Brooklyn towers that are seperated from the suburban style fabric of the promenade and its domain by the Flatbush Ave. Extension that leads into the Manhattan bridge. That street diffinitively breaks up the two different urban areas,which allows them too be distinctive, its just good planning to keep these high rises away from such an established neighborhoods like the Heights and Cobble Hill.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2015, 6:19 PM
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Yes i wholistically agree that economics drives the buisness but im talking about good urban planning. You'd never put a skyscraper near the mall in DC, correct?
I don't see the relation.


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This site sits right in Cobble Hill which is different from the Downtown Brooklyn towers that are seperated from the suburban style fabric of the promenade and its domain by the Flatbush Ave. Extension that leads into the Manhattan bridge. .
Huh? Those Downtown towers directly border the brownstone neighborhoods of Brooklyn. These towers are no different. And will be no different from the further expansion of taller towers in Brooklyn bordering these neighborhoods.

I remember a similar argument about Atlantic Yards and it's towers a few years back. Same thing.

Now, if we want to discuss a tower that truly doesn' fit it's surroundings, look no further than 1 Manhattan Plaza.



cityrealty_nyc


Residents in the area say - rightly - that the tower doesn't fit in with its surroundings, that's it's too tall for the area. My response to that is the same.
Unless, of course, their opinions are invalid because they don't live in nice brownstones.
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