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  #61  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Anyone know what tower the massing is for in the upper left?
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=227690




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Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post
There is a grotesque level of apathy by most toward the loss of some on the most classic new York skyline views that are being lost. Most of these towers completely ablate the public's view (of millions of people) of these majestic buildings so that a handful of millionaires can have exclusive close-up view.

Watching the classic skyline being walled off it makes me sick as a native New Yorker.
As a New Yorker, you shouldn't be. There was a New York before the Chrysler and Empire State buildings, for example. But the energy of New York is always about "moving" and change - like it or not. It's that energy that makes it the place it is, and the place so many people want to be. If it weren't for that, you wouldn't see so many new buildings going up. It wouldn't be the city so many people want to visit. I may not like a lot of the new buildings going up, I"m not particularly pleased with this one, but I know they have a right to build it. It's a city of skyscrapers, our favorites aren't always going to win the day (or view). There's a particular view of the Empire State from Broadway and 32nd that I've always loved, and now that's blocked by some random new apartment building on 32nd Street. Oh well. That's New York. It's constantly shifting and changing. You have to adapt. Time moves on, and what could be considered the skyline of the New York we know will not be considered the skyline of the New York of the future. I always say we haven't seen the best New York, and New York isn't done.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 2:30 AM
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I feel like that's a poor excuse in this case. Obviously, not everything can be preserved but a protected line of sight for one of the word's most iconic monuments isn't much to ask for. Other great world cities have them, London, Paris, etc. New York itself has protected neighborhoods so it's not exactly a new concept, some parts of the city are finished and should be preserved.

If those buildings get constructed it will be a significant downgrade in terms of the skyline.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterQM View Post

FFS. If you are building near the ESB, you don't put up 1000ft blank walls. Back to the drawing board.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=227690
There's a particular view of the Empire State from Broadway and 32nd that I've always loved, and now that's blocked by some random new apartment building on 32nd Street. Oh well. That's New York. It's constantly shifting and changing. You have to adapt. Time moves on, and what could be considered the skyline of the New York we know will not be considered the skyline of the New York of the future. I always say we haven't seen the best New York, and New York isn't done.
I have to agree with this sentiment. NYC is never going to be "done" and any of these view corridors will just stifle the dynamism of the city. I think in 30 years time, the ESB will just be one tower among many, much like the Chrysler building is today. There will be many more towers coming to the area stretching from 23rd to 42nd in the years to come and the role of the ESB will change from being the overlord that anchors the midtown skyline, as it has already done for the last 86 years, to one that has more dialogue with it's surroundings.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 2:49 PM
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^ The Woolworth is another building I like to use as an example.


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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
I feel like that's a poor excuse in this case. Obviously, not everything can be preserved but a protected line of sight for one of the word's most iconic monuments isn't much to ask for. Other great world cities have them, London, Paris, etc. New York itself has protected neighborhoods so it's not exactly a new concept, some parts of the city are finished and should be preserved.
Not a poor excuse at all, and in fact, that argument was brought up in the case of 15 Penn Plaza. The view of the Empire State Building can be blocked by anything (the much smaller tower I mentioned earlier). One Vanderbilt will block the view of Chrysler from some angles, but does that mean the City should freeze development to preserve that view? Of course not. London isn't New York, a city defined by it's skyscrapers. And New York shouldn't stop building because a view of one in particular could be "blocked". What if that argument was used in the time of Woolworth. We would never have gotten the Empire State Building in the first place. It's not a practical argument to be had in New York. You can argue about the quality of what's getting built, as Amanda Burden did when she chopped 200 ft off the height of the Tower Verre (something that had no bearing on views of the ESB). But whether or not something can be built is decided by other factors.

And by the way, it can be argued that those blocks around the ESB should have been developed years ago with larger buildings, but that's just not where the business district was. But imagine if the planned Met Life tower had gotten built to its planned height, and not cut short as it was.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 3:38 PM
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But imagine if the planned Met Life tower had gotten built to its planned height, and not cut short as it was.[/QUOTE]


Talking about the Met Life Tower and it's original planned height, with all the towers going up now and the prime real estate around Madison Sq Park, do you see a time not in this building cycle, but down the road, that the Met Life tower finally rises to it's intended height.

The building's foundation, lobby, etc was built with height in mind.. original plan revisited or a totally new modern architectural plan going forward, say like the Hearst Building.

I see that building every single day.. that deserves to rise and take it's rightful place in NYC's skyline!!
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  #67  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 4:07 PM
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I'm talking about this specific view, the obviously famous one where you can clearly see the ESB all the way from downtown because of the lower buildings. I never said all views of the building should be protected. Woolworth is nowhere near the ESB, how is that even remotely relevant? You're conflating arguments and ignoring nuances on purpose.

Whatever, if New York wants to destroy any sort of beauty it has left for the sake of change and New Yorkers are fine with it then I'm not gonna argue, there are much more beautiful cities to preserve instead. The city can end up looking like São Paulo for all I care.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post

Whatever, if New York wants to destroy any sort of beauty it has left for the sake of change and New Yorkers are fine with it then I'm not gonna argue, there are much more beautiful cities to preserve instead. The city can end up looking like São Paulo for all I care.
You make it sound like NY is having a Shanghai style boom where blocks and blocks of neighborhoods are demolished. One tower will not break the city. NY is not Sao Paulo. Architecturally, its top in the world. There are 1000's of pre-war structures everywhere. Still 1000's of structures all over the city that span 3 centuries. The city will be fine. Views will change, but the ESB will always remain a landmark and a symbol of the city. Hudson Yards, depending on the angle, will do more to mask the ESB from a larger POV than this tower will.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2017, 12:42 PM
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I think the blank walls are ludicrous especially in such a prominent sight line. This is one time where the NIMBYS need to be screaming. Tower Verre gets cut because it is subject to that woman(will not mention her full name but initials A.B.) and is not worthy of space near the Empire State Building...but now a building with sheer blank walls can go up close by?

They can do better than this...blank walls? And I also agree with whomever said diagrid bracing would look better than weirdly shaped ovals and circles on the other wall(the one we have not seen good renders of).
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  #70  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2017, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by toddguy View Post
I think the blank walls are ludicrous especially in such a prominent sight line. This is one time where the NIMBYS need to be screaming. Tower Verre gets cut because it is subject to that woman(will not mention her full name but initials A.B.) and is not worthy of space near the Empire State Building...but now a building with sheer blank walls can go up close by?

They can do better than this...blank walls? And I also agree with whomever said diagrid bracing would look better than weirdly shaped ovals and circles on the other wall(the one we have not seen good renders of).
There's a huge surface parking lot directly to west of this, literally less than 50 feet, on the blank wall side. The rate at which this stretch of 5th is sprouting towers, I would expect a serious proposal for that lot before this building is finished.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2017, 1:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyNYC View Post
Talking about the Met Life Tower and it's original planned height, with all the towers going up now and the prime real estate around Madison Sq Park, do you see a time not in this building cycle, but down the road, that the Met Life tower finally rises to it's intended height.

The building's foundation, lobby, etc was built with height in mind.. original plan revisited or a totally new modern architectural plan going forward, say like the Hearst Building.

I see that building every single day.. that deserves to rise and take it's rightful place in NYC's skyline!!
It's always a fantasy of mine to see that built to it's original planned height, with maybe a modern twist to make it attractive to today's market.




Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post
I'm talking about this specific view, the obviously famous one where you can clearly see the ESB all the way from downtown because of the lower buildings. I never said all views of the building should be protected. Woolworth is nowhere near the ESB, how is that even remotely relevant? You're conflating arguments and ignoring nuances on purpose.
If that's your whole argument then you're wasting your time. This tower won't block the Empire State. And the Manhattan skyline, the ESB particularly, is seen from a variety of angle, even from Downtown.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2017, 4:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
^ The Woolworth is another building I like to use as an example.




Not a poor excuse at all, and in fact, that argument was brought up in the case of 15 Penn Plaza. The view of the Empire State Building can be blocked by anything (the much smaller tower I mentioned earlier). One Vanderbilt will block the view of Chrysler from some angles, but does that mean the City should freeze development to preserve that view? Of course not. London isn't New York, a city defined by it's skyscrapers. And New York shouldn't stop building because a view of one in particular could be "blocked". What if that argument was used in the time of Woolworth. We would never have gotten the Empire State Building in the first place. It's not a practical argument to be had in New York. You can argue about the quality of what's getting built, as Amanda Burden did when she chopped 200 ft off the height of the Tower Verre (something that had no bearing on views of the ESB). But whether or not something can be built is decided by other factors.

And by the way, it can be argued that those blocks around the ESB should have been developed years ago with larger buildings, but that's just not where the business district was. But imagine if the planned Met Life tower had gotten built to its planned height, and not cut short as it was.
I think you're reducing the arguments against you and therefore missing the point. No one's arguing that everything should be preserved and height shouldn't be built. Building skyscrapers is great, and it's tremendous for the city. But there's something to be said for protecting certain views of the most iconic skyscrapers in the history of skyscrapers. The ESB is a New York City and world icon. NYC's not gonna have many skyscrapers like that in the future. Let's be honest, what new building going up in NYC now (or within the next two decades) will compete with the Burj Khalifa, or even the Ping An building in China? The ESB is a large part of NYC's global appeal, and the city will lose a heck of a lot by not preserving that as much as possible. I'm not saying it has to stand out over all of midtown. But it definitely would be a tragedy if it was lost in a cluster of towers.

Last edited by Yesh222; Jun 9, 2017 at 2:05 PM.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2017, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Yesh222 View Post
I think your reducing the arguments against you and therefore missing the point. No one's arguing that everything should be preserved and height shouldn't be built. Building skyscrapers is great, and it's tremendous for the city. But there's something to be said for protecting certain views of the most iconic skyscrapers in the history of skyscrapers. The ESB is a New York City and world icon. NYC's not gonna have many skyscrapers like that in the future. Let's be honest, what new building going up in NYC now (or within the next two decades) will compete with the Burj Khalifa, or even the Ping An building in China? The ESB is a large part of NYC's global appeal, and the city will lose a heck of a lot by not preserving that as much as possible. I'm not saying it has to stand out over all of midtown. But it definitely would be a tragedy if it was lost in a cluster of towers.
Right but now you've opened pandora's box by granting even one sight line, if you grant one, everyone is going to propose one. How many hours after granting that first sight line would pass before a NIMBY group uses an ESB sight line to try and block a new building from going up? Who/what organization is going to determine the significance of sight lines, and approve them or reject them? Is it just the ESB that's getting sight lines? If so, why? If not, what metrics are going to be used to determine if other sight lines are worthy of being granted?

The bolded part though, I hear this argument a lot regarding this topic and the ESB, but what's more a symbol of New York than constantly moving forward, and progressing? And a large part of how those two things are manifested in New York, is skyscraper construction, to me, the ESB loosing it's dominance of south Midtown, is a perfect example of what makes NY so great.
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  #74  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2017, 11:55 PM
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Eran Elhanani is suing the Israeli developer, who he says neglected to pay commission on air rights sales then fired him


From left: Boris Kuzinez, Eran Elhanani and a rendering of 262 Fifth Avenue

Quote:
Moscow’s “Golden Mile” developer Boris Kuzinez finally received his official welcome to New York City real estate: his Manhattan broker just sued him in New York State Supreme Court.

Elhanani Group’s Eran Elhanani claims he brokered Kuzinez’s purchase of two Fifth Avenue development sites and two air rights deals but was never paid for the two air rights transactions. For all of the deals, Elhanani agreed to a modest 1 percent commission rate instead of 3 percent, according to the suit. In exchange for the low cut, Elhanani says Kuzinez promised to make him the exclusive broker for the supertall luxury condominium the developer has planned for 262 Fifth Avenue. Elhanani was made director of residential sales in marketing, the suit claims.

Kuzinez, however, fired Elhanani in June 2016, but did so without paying him the remaining commission on the air rights purchases, according to court papers. Elhanani is demanding undiscounted commissions on the more than $55 million in deals he said he negotiated for Kuzinez and seeks additional damages from the court based on other unpaid work.

The suit mentions a few additional services for which Elhanani says he was never paid. Those include consulting services, such as arranging meetings with new development marketing firms and meeting with potential finance partner Goldman Sachs.

It also includes a bit about how 262 Fifth Avenue was Elhanani’s idea to begin with, a suggestion made to Kuzinez when he complained he was having a hard time finding a penthouse worth living in.
======================
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  #75  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2017, 3:26 PM
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TBH, anything that contributes to putting the kibosh on this project in its present constitution is okay by me.

Even now, the brain trust behind the renderings refuses to offer a facade view from the Hudson side.

It just looks amateurish overall, especially with the "illuminated arch"on top...which looks like a junior high school industrial arts project with a three-watt light bulb socket attachment.

The paucity of the port-hole fenestration--alliteration intended--bespeaks a lazy approach to a potentially interesting look.

I *do*appreciate the dual-elemented body with an apparent view to usable space maximization (i.e. the white one being a dedicated elevator/stairwell core).

Maybe this personality dustup--or whatever it can be called--will turn out to be a good reasonfor everyone involvef to go back to the proverbial drawing board.
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  #76  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2017, 10:55 PM
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I think the blank wall kills it, but other than that, it's a high quality design. If they could thin the blank wall, I think it could work. Somewhat complements it, but I think it's too wide IMO.
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  #77  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 6:03 AM
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This tower really sucks. The front is like a cheese grater and the back is a grey wall that rises 1000 feet.

As regards the ESB, I do hope that it remains above the surroundings and is never totally hemmed in by taller towers. NY needs to have a global icon that is timeless.

Last edited by aquablue; Aug 17, 2017 at 8:43 AM.
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  #78  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 1:31 AM
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
This tower really sucks. The front is like a cheese grater and the back is a grey wall that rises 1000 feet.

As regards the ESB, I do hope that it remains above the surroundings and is never totally hemmed in by taller towers. NY needs to have a global icon that is timeless.

The ESB will always be timeless, like the Chrysler and Woolworth. It will always be there and stand unique on the skyline, no matter how tall other towers around it may rise. But yes, this tower sucks, lol.



https://therealdeal.com/2017/08/22/b...or-plans-show/

Boris Kuzinez might be planning a $75M penthouse at 262 Fifth Ave. Here’s what the floor plans show
The Real Deal obtained a "test the market" application that also includes potential unit pricing for the upcoming luxury tower





By Will Parker
August 22, 2017


Quote:
Israeli developer Boris Kuzinez could list a triplex apartment at 262 Fifth Avenue for as much as $75 million, according to filings with the New York State Attorney General office obtained by The Real Deal.

The documents, included in a “test the market” application that does not constitute an offering of sale to the public, show floor plans for 39 apartments Kuzinez hopes to bring to a 1,001-foot tower planned in NoMad.

Almost all of them are massive, especially by New York standards.

The largest unit cited in the application is the 9,901-square-foot triplex penthouse. Tagged “Villa 3,” the three-bedroom mansion would cover the entire 51st through the 53rd floors. The potential pricing for such an apartment is given as a range: $59 million to $75 million, or $5,958 to $7,574 per foot.

“Villa 2,” down on the eighth and ninth floors, is 5,297-square foot apartment with a spiral staircase and what looks like 2,000 square-feet of outdoor space. That unit would be priced somewhere between $20 million and $45 million, according to the filings.

The potential lowest price at the tower is $2.7 million for a one-bedroom unit.

Yuri Grigoryan, an acclaimed Russian architect who worked with Kuzinez on developments in Moscow, is designing 262 Fifth Avenue. The project is the first American project for Grigoryan’s studio, Meganom.

A “test the market” application, or CPS-1, allows a developer to do basic advertising for a future project, in order to gauge buyer interest before embarking on the complicated and expensive process of putting together an offering plan. Kuzinez and his company Five Points Development are yet to file such plan with the AG.

The most expensive listing currently available in the Flatiron/Midtown South area is the 7,028-square-foot penthouse at Ian Bruce Eichner’s Madison Square Park Tower, which is currently listed on StreetEasy for $48 million.

Kuzinez, who has not yet scored a construction loan, appears to be planing the ultra-luxury project during a difficult moment for the top end of the condo market. If he receives a loan, he’ll also face competition from product in the pipeline on Billionaires’ Row, where developers Vornado Realty Trust and Extell Development are planning dozens of units priced over $50 million.

Earlier this month, Kuzinez’s ex-broker sued him alleging he was cheated out of commissions in air rights deals he negotiated for Kuzinez. The broker also said that Kuzinez decided to build the tower after scanning Manhattan for a luxury residence of his own and finding the pickings slim.

https://therealdeal.com/wp-content/u...lla-2-full.jpg

https://therealdeal.com/wp-content/u...h-fl-large.jpg

https://therealdeal.com/wp-content/u...la-3-large.jpg
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  #79  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 11:53 AM
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Wow, these will be HUGE units. A bit above my price range.
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  #80  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2017, 4:03 AM
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http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=05

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08/21/2017

PROVIDE SUPPORT OF EXCAVATION (SOE) AS PER PLANS FILED.
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