Western Expresso

[buzzg]

^FWIW, because of the new tariff "war" – Harley Davidson has announced it's shifting at least 25% of its production out of the US to overseas. Many expert accounts say in some industries, such as manufacturing, these tariffs are going to have the opposite effect, and do exactly what HD is doing.

New Flyer could benefit, as EU/Asian/African countries could rule out some US-made busses due to taxes.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by buzzg

^FWIW, because of the new tariff "war" – Harley Davidson has announced it's shifting at least 25% of its production out of the US to overseas. Many expert accounts say in some industries, such as manufacturing, these tariffs are going to have the opposite effect, and do exactly what HD is doing.

New Flyer could benefit, as EU/Asian/African countries could rule out some US-made busses due to taxes.

yeah hopefully. Bus market have been pretty continental traditionally, but that could change as the products become higher value (due to more technology inputs) and, of course, the trade policy shifts you mention.

[bomberjet]

http://www.winnipeg.ca/corp/document...disclosure.pdf

Link to the City of Winnipeg compensation statement for 2017. You can see why police and fire are so expensive. They completely dominate the top earners for the City. Not even close to anything else.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

http://www.winnipeg.ca/corp/document...disclosure.pdf

Link to the City of Winnipeg compensation statement for 2017. You can see why police and fire are so expensive. They completely dominate the top earners for the City. Not even close to anything else.

Wow.

[esquire]

It's staggering. Fire and police service eats up 45% of Winnipeg's operating budget. Contrast with Edmonton, which is not dissimilar to Winnipeg... there the emergency services are 23%. Hamilton is 24.5%. Regina is 31%. (Source: the most recent operating budgets of those cities.) Why is Winnipeg such an outlier? It's funny, if it were librarians or tax assessors soaking up the budget like that there would be protests in the streets, but fire/police get a free pass.

Screw Portage and Main referendums, this should be the number one civic election issue right here.

[bomberjet]

I really wish somebody would present the unions with facts and comparisons of Winnipeg police and fire versus those other cities.

Is crime per capita that much higher in Winnipeg than Regina, Edmonton, or other? I don't think it is.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Actually depending on which statistic you look at, Regina's crime is worse.

[headhorse]

^ police could have been manipulating crime numbers for years to create false demand, not really sure we should trust crime statistics

[esquire]

Originally Posted by headhorse

^ police could have been manipulating crime numbers for years to create false demand, not really sure we should trust crime statistics

There's no question IMO that Winnipeg, like nearly all prairie cities big and small, has higher crime rates than the national average. I can accept that Winnipeg will therefore have higher than normal policing or fire costs. But we are so far out of line it isn't funny.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

http://www.winnipeg.ca/corp/document...disclosure.pdf

Link to the City of Winnipeg compensation statement for 2017. You can see why police and fire are so expensive. They completely dominate the top earners for the City. Not even close to anything else.

How in the hell are there constables making $200K ? We have rank-and-file cops making more than the mayor. That's completely insane.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by windypeg

How in the hell are there constables making $200K ? We have rank-and-file cops making more than the mayor. That's completely insane.

$200K is pushing into the level of what some family doctors earn once you factor in overhead costs, benefits and pensions, which doctors deal with but police constables don't spend a dime on out of their own pockets.

I'm all for the fair treatment of public servants, but what's happening with emergency services in this city is veering into the unsustainable. You think it's tough paying for Constable Jones' $200K earnings now, wait until he retires at 55 and the pension for that amount kicks in for the next 30 years beyond that.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

$200K is pushing into the level of what some family doctors earn once you factor in overhead costs, benefits and pensions, which doctors deal with but police constables don't spend a dime on out of their own pockets.

I'm all for the fair treatment of public servants, but what's happening with emergency services in this city is veering into the unsustainable. You think it's tough paying for Constable Jones' $200K earnings now, wait until he retires at 55 and the pension for that amount kicks in for the next 30 years beyond that.

The problem is that the unions for fire and police have become way too powerful.

[DancingDuck]

I have a friend who was recently accepted into the Cadet program, told me that the pension is the average wage of the 5 highest earning years, including overtime and bonuses. He also mentioned that cadets in the program get payed for full 8 hour days, regardless of if they work the full 8 hours... The icing on the cake was when he said there was a family barbecue for everyone in the program, and was told by the people in charge to "make sure you count this as overtime"

As a friend I'm happy for him to have made it to his dream job, but knowing how much of an impact the police/fire department have hearing him saying that was incredibly frustrating

[esquire]

A combination of partly justified crime paranoia and automatic political deference has led us to this situation.

It is interesting that the worse crime has become, the tougher it is for politicians to say no to police demands. Cops and firefighters in some sleepy New Brunswick town don't have anything resembling the kind of leverage that ours do.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by esquire

A combination of partly justified crime paranoia and automatic political deference has led us to this situation.

It is interesting that the worse crime has become, the tougher it is for politicians to say no to police demands. Cops and firefighters in some sleepy New Brunswick town don't have anything resembling the kind of leverage that ours do.

The risky and dangerous nature of police work is so often cited by the unions as well and it's very over-stated. I once read that it's statistically more dangerous to work on a garbage truck (heavy machinery, broken glass, needles, etc) than to be a police officer.

Also if we put anywhere near the same amount of resources into stuff like addictions treatment & mental health we wouldn't have a large chunk of the crime in the first place.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by windypeg

The risky and dangerous nature of police work is so often cited by the unions as well and it's very over-stated. I once read that it's statistically more dangerous to work on a garbage truck (heavy machinery, broken glass, needles, etc) than to be a police officer.

Also if we put anywhere near the same amount of resources into stuff like addictions treatment & mental health we wouldn't have a large chunk of the crime in the first place.

Very good point. The province recently trumpeted a new kind of addictions clinic in a few locations that would cost something like $1.2 million to implement. It was a long time in the making and it's not enough on its own, but at least it'll make a small dent in the problem... it's a start.

Meanwhile, cops instantly get $800K in pensionable overtime for the Whiteout parties, no questions asked.

[Gm0ney]

Edmonton seems to generate a lot more revenue than Winnipeg, even accounting for the difference in population. Winnipeg's around $1.1B, Edmonton is $2.6B?

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Gm0ney

Edmonton seems to generate a lot more revenue than Winnipeg, even accounting for the difference in population. Winnipeg's around $1.1B, Edmonton is $2.6B?

Well... oil, you know?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Gm0ney

Edmonton seems to generate a lot more revenue than Winnipeg, even accounting for the difference in population. Winnipeg's around $1.1B, Edmonton is $2.6B?

Still shouldn't mean that we spend s way higher proportion on the budget on public safety

[Bdog]

It would be interesting to see how those emergency services are being deployed geographically in Winnipeg. It's often speculated on this board that the inner city is subsidizing new suburban growth. Would that really be the case when you compare emergency service usage in, for example, Centennial versus Linden Woods?