Canadian ethnicity, immigration, housing etc.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec is for example the only place in Canada-U.S.A. where, for better or for worse, a huge chunk of the population thinks that being opposed to religiously-inspired/imposed face veils makes them "leftist", "liberal" and "progressive", and a paragon of women's rights to boot!

Even the most conservative parts of the US, let alone of Anglo-Canada, don't seem to have religious head covering (turbans etc.), or veils debates in the limelight as much as France and Quebec (though that might be also due to lower numbers of the demographics who would wear such head coverings or veils).

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Even the most conservative parts of the US, let alone of Anglo-Canada, don't seem to have religious head covering (turbans etc.), or veils debates in the limelight as much as France and Quebec (though that might be also due to lower numbers of the demographics who would wear such head coverings or veils).

Though looking it up, the US has these debates too. It just seems like they're not in the limelight as much. It seems like in terms of being at the focus of public attention, France/Quebec and maybe other European countries put the most focus on it, Anglo-Canada a bit less of it but it's still in the public eye, and the US (despite being most conservative) the least.

Not sure about the UK or Australia/NZ, but presumably the Anglophone countries might be similar or alike in this regard.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/n...an-policy.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7423441.html

[Docere]

Dearborn got falsely accused of "implementing sharia law" by the right in the US.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I can't help but note a contrast between Ontario and Quebec on two political stories that emerged this week.

In Quebec, a Muslim woman who wears a hijab--not a niqab or burka, just a headscarf--is running for office and she's been condemned by much of the media and political sphere for doing so and few have come to her defense.

In Ontario, a woman is running for office (seeking the PC Party nomination in a GTA riding) who five years ago posted a statement on her blog advocating for banning niqabs/burkas in public; while defending the use of hijabs and turbans, saying she supports the right of people to cover their hair whenever they want, just not face.

For this, this woman is being eviscerated. The other parties and virtually of the media have massively condemned her and are resolutely saying she has no place in politics and there's been immense pressure on the PC Party to disqualify her candidacy, and while Doug Ford refused to do so, he did issue a statement condemning her opinions.

In Ontario, even the most nationalist-populist party, led by one of the most populist leaders its ever had, is condemning the very suggestion that niqabs should be banned in public, even if that suggestion is heavily qualified with support for hijabs and other less dramatic forms of religious wear. In Quebec, such bans are heavily supported by pretty much everyone and merely wearing a hijab gets you near universal condemnation.

Who/where is this? I've not seen any media coverage.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Docere

Dearborn got falsely accused of "implementing sharia law" by the right in the US.

Which is ridiculous because most Arab-Americans who live in Dearborn aren't even Muslims. They're Middle Eastern Christians. (Though this is slowly changing apparently.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Who/where is this? I've not seen any media coverage.

I named her and her riding in my post on the previous page.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I named her and her riding in my post on the previous page.

Ahh. I had seen reference to Gracic's comparison to bank robbers and ninjas, but it didn't twig.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Even the most conservative parts of the US, let alone of Anglo-Canada, don't seem to have religious head covering (turbans etc.), or veils debates in the limelight as much as France and Quebec (though that might be also due to lower numbers of the demographics who would wear such head coverings or veils).

I get the impression that Quebec is taking its cue from France on this one where the Muslim presence is much larger and the issue far more pressing than it is here.

It's sort of like how BLM suddenly became an issue in just about every English-speaking Canadian city, not coincidentally right at the same time the issue was flaring up big time in the US.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Even the most conservative parts of the US, let alone of Anglo-Canada, don't seem to have religious head covering (turbans etc.), or veils debates in the limelight as much as France and Quebec (though that might be also due to lower numbers of the demographics who would wear such head coverings or veils).

I don't think the number of people wearing face veils in Quebec is higher than in Ontario, for example. Or London UK.

Hijab head scarves are of course all over the place in the cities. Here in Gatineau I see them more often than not if I go out and about. Basically every day or perhaps even several times a day.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

I get the impression that Quebec is taking its cue from France on this one where the Muslim presence is much larger and the issue far more pressing than it is here.

It's sort of like how BLM suddenly became an issue in just about every English-speaking Canadian city, not coincidentally right at the same time the issue was flaring up big time in the US.

One also can't discount the extremely strong influence of feminists and feminism on Quebec society and politics.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't think the number of people wearing face veils in Quebec is higher than in Ontario, for example. Or London UK.

Hijab head scarves are of course all over the place in the cities. Here in Gatineau I see them more often than not if I go out and about. Basically every day or perhaps even several times a day.

Hijab head scarves are common in most North American cities these days.

More extensive veils like the niqab or burka, are not though. I have seen the niqab in the GTA occasionally, and the occasional time stateside in places like the bigger cities, eg. near NYC, Chicago etc. I don't think they're that common in Quebec now that I think of it.

[CountryMike]

deleted

[Acajack]

The number of headscarves and face veils you see in our cities isn't going anywhere but up. At least in the immediate future.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The number of headscarves and face veils you see in our cities isn't going anywhere but up. At least in the immediate future.

In the areas of Ottawa that I pass through most frequently, headcoverings are so common that it's not particularly noteworthy anymore. Face coverings are less common, perhaps something one sees every couple of months (although whether that is one woman seen repeatedly or several women would be difficult to say ).

[north 42]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In the areas of Ottawa that I pass through most frequently, headcoverings are so common that it's not particularly noteworthy anymore. Face coverings are less common, perhaps something one sees every couple of months (although whether that is one woman seen repeatedly or several women would be difficult to say ).

It’s the same here regarding head coverings, they’re pretty much everywhere now. The burkas and niqab are much less visible, but you will see them occasionally, sometimes DT and especially along the Arab nabe along Wyandotte St. E.
I have absolutely no problem with woman wearing any kind of head scarfs, but I really don’t like the burka where you can’t see who is behind it, it’s a bit unsettling honestly!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The number of headscarves and face veils you see in our cities isn't going anywhere but up. At least in the immediate future.

One little anecdote I have to contribute here is that I rarely used to see them in Halifax, but on recent trips have been seeing them more.

On the surface there might not seem to be anything interesting about this, because there is more immigration now. But Arabic has been the third most spoken language in the city for a long time. It was maybe 1% Arabic speakers two decades ago, and I knew many from that group then (mostly Lebanese through school). You would occasionally see a hijab or often they would wear nothing to cover their hair. Burkas were unheard of and at the time thought of as something from, say, rural Afghanistan.

I am not sure if this change happened because the source groups have changed or if some people are simply inclined to wear headscarves more (maybe because of a change in culture here or somewhere else). I suspect the biggest change is that there are newcomers from other countries. I don't know what the countries of origin of burka-wearers I have seen are. Maybe they are from places like Afghanistan, Yemen, or Saudi Arabia.

Headscarves were not a polarized political issue in North America until recently. Or at least it wasn't an issue average people knew much about. In the old naive North American culture of the 90's and earlier a headscarf seemed outdated while burkas seemed bizarre and exotic.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

With all due respect I think you are missing the big picture here.

The views of what's "conservative" vs. "liberal" inside and outside of Quebec tend to be quite different when it comes to certain matters, which often leads to a lot of judgemental misunderstandings.

Quebec is for example the only place in Canada-U.S.A. where, for better or for worse, a huge chunk of the population thinks that being opposed to religiously-inspired/imposed face veils makes them "leftist", "liberal" and "progressive", and a paragon of women's rights to boot!

(Stuff such as this is likely due to the influence of France/Europe on our political and societal discourse.)

Most of the people in the media/public sphere who reacted less than enthusiastically to the candidacy of Ève Torres (the lady with the hijab) in Montreal happen to be feminists who support gay rights, abortion rights, and a host of other social justice causes to the hilt. Precisely the type of people I referred to in my third paragraph.

Tanya Granic Allen (Mississauga Centre?) OTOH is a right wing social conservative clean across the board: no Muslim face veils, but no sex ed in public schools either, and not too keen on gay rights or free access to abortion either.

See the difference?

It's funny that the similarity between the observable widespread 'resistance' of the majority to 'extreme' social conservatives like Ève Torres and Tanya Granic Allen gets lost on people like 1overcosc. I find it amusing, to a degree. (Worrying, somewhat, too.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

One little anecdote I have to contribute here is that I rarely used to see them in Halifax, but on recent trips have been seeing them more.

On the surface there might not seem to be anything interesting about this, because there is more immigration now. But Arabic has been the third most spoken language in the city for a long time. It was maybe 1% Arabic speakers two decades ago, and I knew many from that group then (mostly Lebanese through school). You would occasionally see a hijab or often they would wear nothing to cover their hair. Burkas were unheard of and at the time thought of as something from, say, rural Afghanistan.

I am not sure if this change happened because the source groups have changed or if some people are simply inclined to wear headscarves more (maybe because of a change in culture here or somewhere else). I suspect the biggest change is that there are newcomers from other countries. I don't know what the countries of origin of burka-wearers I have seen are. Maybe they are from places like Afghanistan, Yemen, or Saudi Arabia.

Headscarves were not a polarized political issue in North America until recently. Or at least it wasn't an issue average people knew much about. In the old naive North American culture of the 90's and earlier a headscarf seemed outdated while burkas seemed bizarre and exotic.

I don't think it has anything to do with Canada specifically. It's a worldwide trend in Islam that is seieng more orthodox elements in the religion gaining more and more power. In part due to money funding mosques, madrasas and other activities coming from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states that have Salafist-Wahhabite leanings.

Most of the women you see walking around with hijabs and burkas today are the daughters and granddaughters of women who did not dress that way.

For example the mother of Ève Torres (the candidate in Montreal) never wore any Muslim headwear apparently.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's sort of like how BLM suddenly became an issue in just about every English-speaking Canadian city, not coincidentally right at the same time the issue was flaring up big time in the US.

Unfortunately when it comes to political views, English Canada lately has imported a lot of American "culture wars" stuff even when it makes little sense. A lot of debates south of the border (and everywhere) are manufactured wedge issues leveraged for political gain rather than real debates about meaningful policies. They are bad to begin with and make even less sense when removed from their original context.

Face coverings have been turned into one such issue. Inclusive bathrooms are another one. These are real issues affecting real people but they don't merit the level of heat and attention that has been generated (e.g. they are not a bigger issue than the US federal government's enormous deficit).

In a better world Canada would have a more international and nuanced perspective based on thoughtfulness and commonalities in views across multiple countries, not the cultural quirk of a single neighbour country with particularly bad politics.

But instead in Canada you can be worse than Hitler because you didn't adopt some shibboleth that was useful to the US Democratic party in the last election cycle, and a lot of people are obsessed over elected officials in another country they have no control over.

[Pinion]

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