HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2017, 8:12 PM
ChargerCarl ChargerCarl is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Los Angeles/San Francisco
Posts: 2,026
Self-driving cars really won't be that transformative:

http://orfe.princeton.edu/~alaink/Pa...aper012414.pdf

They're a useful excuse to avoid doing the hard work of actually fixing our cities and improving transportation options, which is why NIMBYs love to trot them out as reasons to avoid adding more density.
__________________
This Machine Kills NIMBYs
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2017, 9:29 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 13,865
I disagree. There will still be tons of cars on the road, but ownership models will change and parking requirements will be reduced.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2017, 9:31 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 13,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Self-driving and sharing are separate concepts, but let's say the two concepts combine.

They still need to live somewhere. And if the peak time user rate is 500 in a half hour outside the same building, they'll have to be piled up nearby.

Obviously office buildings should have good transit service and cars of any kind should serve a fraction of the occupant count. But they're not going to be a panacea for workplace parking (even while more efficient) or anything else.
They're not really separate concepts though. If your car can drive itself, it can park itself. It doesn't need to be physically at your home anymore, and it doesn't need to be idle 95% or the time.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2017, 11:48 PM
The North One's Avatar
The North One The North One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,016
The only significant thing that will come from self-driving cars is that cities will need much less parking. Self-driving cars are in no way and won't ever be a substitute for public transit.
__________________
Spawn of questionable parentage!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2017, 7:46 AM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 13,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post
The only significant thing that will come from self-driving cars is that cities will need much less parking. Self-driving cars are in no way and won't ever be a substitute for public transit.
Of course not.

They will however be cheaper and probably produce a new ownership model. If it doesn't need to sit at home, then you don't need to own it. You can pay a monthly subscription to have a car on demand. Something like Uber, minus the driver, but you get to pick exactly which model of car you want.

The benefit to traffic will have more to do with the fact that, apparently, a significant portion of urban vehicle miles travelled are spent looking for parking. Self-driving cars would know exactly where available spaces are (if they even need one, and aren't just enroute to pick up their next passenger).
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2017, 9:41 AM
Minato Ku's Avatar
Minato Ku Minato Ku is online now
Tokyo and Paris fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 3,736
Anyway in Paris, you can't say that surface parking is a problem.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2017, 11:00 AM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 13,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
Anyway in Paris, you can't say that surface parking is a problem.
But people driving around looking for a place to park is a problem. I know, I've done it.

The other (perhaps longer term) thing that might come out of self-driving vehicles is that we'll finally get flying cars. This biggest obstacle to that has never really been technology, but the fact that it takes hundreds of hours of training to fly light aircraft and a bunch of people flying around town would be extremely dangerous. But if they're all drones controlled by a central air traffic system, it could happen.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2017, 1:46 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Montréal, évidemment!
Posts: 1,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Of course not.

They will however be cheaper and probably produce a new ownership model. If it doesn't need to sit at home, then you don't need to own it. You can pay a monthly subscription to have a car on demand. Something like Uber, minus the driver, but you get to pick exactly which model of car you want.

The benefit to traffic will have more to do with the fact that, apparently, a significant portion of urban vehicle miles travelled are spent looking for parking. Self-driving cars would know exactly where available spaces are (if they even need one, and aren't just enroute to pick up their next passenger).
Not to disparage, but isn't it weird to think that a bunch of driverless cars will come home to daddy or mommy when the onus is on carpooling? I also think that because the tech exists doesn't mean all potential avenues will pan out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2017, 3:09 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 41,707
That's where driverless pods come into play.
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2017, 5:58 PM
emathias's Avatar
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Of course not.

They will however be cheaper and probably produce a new ownership model. If it doesn't need to sit at home, then you don't need to own it. You can pay a monthly subscription to have a car on demand. Something like Uber, minus the driver, but you get to pick exactly which model of car you want.

The benefit to traffic will have more to do with the fact that, apparently, a significant portion of urban vehicle miles travelled are spent looking for parking. Self-driving cars would know exactly where available spaces are (if they even need one, and aren't just enroute to pick up their next passenger).
The model already exists in the form of ZipCar, which exists in larger American cities and a few European ones (London and Paris, at the least). I've used a ZipCar in Paris to drive up to Azincourt. It's not self-driving, but the only difference in the model is that I have to go get it and drive it myself. The pricing model would be quite similar if it were self-driving. With ZipCar, you can either pay a small annual fee and no monthly fee plus a per-hour rate, or you can sign up for a guaranteed monthly usage rate and then a lower per-hour rate the more you guarantee to use it. I think in some markets they've even experimented with an unlimited plan.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 13,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias View Post
The model already exists in the form of ZipCar, which exists in larger American cities and a few European ones (London and Paris, at the least). I've used a ZipCar in Paris to drive up to Azincourt. It's not self-driving, but the only difference in the model is that I have to go get it and drive it myself. The pricing model would be quite similar if it were self-driving. With ZipCar, you can either pay a small annual fee and no monthly fee plus a per-hour rate, or you can sign up for a guaranteed monthly usage rate and then a lower per-hour rate the more you guarantee to use it. I think in some markets they've even experimented with an unlimited plan.
Agincourt, presumably.

I have been a ZipCar member for about 10 years and have continued to use it in London. There are a few located within a couple streets of my flat. But I think this becomes even more easy with self-driving cars, and as I've said, I think it's more like a driverless Uber than a ZipCar. ZipCar does usually require some advanced planning if you don't want all the cars to be taken (on a Saturday, especially).
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:06 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.