HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #3581  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 4:20 AM
Eventually...Chicago Eventually...Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 450
this just shows what is wrong with the public transit process, they have to dance through hoops to get even the most logical projects done. They shouldn't even have to ask for community support, if qualified people say that a stop there makes sense then just do it. Heck, they should have a stop at 16th and cermak.

You have to wonder if any new lines will ever be constructed after the decades it will take to do feasibility studies, alternatives analysis, impact studies, just freakin' grab the land and build the damn thing. If there is one area other than education where you can generally throw indiscriminate amounts of money and expect a return on investment, it's in infrastructure. Due process blows.

also, you have to remember that its not just the condo commandos that make up nimbies. the ghetto communities have some of the worst nimbies out there.

The "i want to pretend i still live in bloomingdale" nimby doesn't want the new stop because it will encourage new development thus bring more people, life, action to the area (things most of us consider good in an urban environment)

The "i do nothing to help my neighborhood because we're disenfranchised" nimby doesn't want the new stop because it means new people will be heading into their area and they'll lose the power they have in the community. They don't care if their community stagnates just so long as they control what happens (i.e. pretty much the entire south side, especially chatham)

And if people in the area are worried about crime, they shouldn't be. All the gang bangers already hang out at the roosevelt station when they either come over from douglas park on the #12 bus (like the 3 guys who murdered another by pushing a kid onto the tracks) or from the green or red line.
__________________
"Eventually, I think Chicago will be the most beautiful great city left in the world"- Frank Lloyd Wright

"A Chicago man knows he has a mission to accomplish in the world."- Pierre De Coubertin
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3582  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 4:37 AM
VivaLFuego's Avatar
VivaLFuego VivaLFuego is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dupont
Posts: 6,383
The Orange Line meeting was well-attended - I'd guess around 75-100 attendees total - and seemed to generally have very positive support from the wide mix of community members, business owners, and the handful of elected officials in attendance. They all seemed to be excited about the investment, aside from a couple isolated comments re: crime (as if Ford City is an idyllic paradise right now....sorry, guys...) and only wish the Federal funding process didn't take so long.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3583  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 5:52 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
atomic
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 12,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
Because everyone knows the CTA makes the best getaway vehicle.
Hey - you have to realize that many of the people living in the South Loop probably think this way. They're totally misguided, of course, but what do you expect from a bunch of aging suburban-expat baby boomers who think they need to lock their doors to drive through Lincoln Park?
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3584  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 2:39 PM
UChicagoDomer UChicagoDomer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 42
is Chicago's west loop transit station dead?

Union Station may become Denver's gateway again -- if it stays on track

link

saw this report on Denver's grand plans for a intermodal transit center. it seems like there is a plethora of car-dependent western and southern cities, whose beefed-up transit systems are beginning to make Chicago look bad (charlotte, denver, dallas, etc.) is the west loop transportation center just another one of those long forgotten much talked-about pipe dreams that we'll read about and yearn for, for the next 20 years with chagrined hearts and teary eyes on chicago-l.org??
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3585  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 2:41 PM
emathias's Avatar
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Hey - you have to realize that many of the people living in the South Loop probably think this way. They're totally misguided, of course, but what do you expect from a bunch of aging suburban-expat baby boomers who think they need to lock their doors to drive through Lincoln Park?
I lock my doors driving through Lincoln Park - frat boys are SCARY!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3586  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 2:42 PM
VivaLFuego's Avatar
VivaLFuego VivaLFuego is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dupont
Posts: 6,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by UChicagoDomer View Post
[SIZE="5"] it seems like there is a plethora of car-dependent western and southern cities, whose beefed-up transit systems are beginning to make Chicago look bad (charlotte, denver, dallas, etc.)
Seriously? I mean, those cities are doing praiseworthy extensions (largely because of the federal funding guidelines that are biased against dense cities with established transit and towards cities with little/no transit), but come on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Hey - you have to realize that many of the people living in the South Loop probably think this way. They're totally misguided, of course, but what do you expect from a bunch of aging suburban-expat baby boomers who think they need to lock their doors to drive through Lincoln Park?
Oh I know, I wasn't snarking at you, rather just at the notion that public transit = crime in my neighborhood.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3587  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 3:58 PM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,495
I love how people who didn't even attend the meeting have made up mythical comments from nonexistent residents so they can complain about the NIMBYs.

I'm not aware of anything but feverish support for the idea of a South Loop Green Line station. The question to be resolved is whether it should be at 18th or at Cermak.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3588  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 4:19 PM
Chicago Shawn's Avatar
Chicago Shawn Chicago Shawn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
I love how people who didn't even attend the meeting have made up mythical comments from nonexistent residents so they can complain about the NIMBYs.

I'm not aware of anything but feverish support for the idea of a South Loop Green Line station. The question to be resolved is whether it should be at 18th or at Cermak.
I didn't make up anything. I am justing stating that I would expect NIMByism to show up based on my experiance with some people living in the South Loop in various community meetings and then durring the municipal campaign season, and my own NIMBY cousin who lives over on 16th Street. PDNA is filled with idiots who should not have moved next door to the largest convention center in North America, and have pushed for things like Cul-de-sacing Calumet Avenue. This station should bring in new density, bring in more pedestrains (and more "crime") and this is what they fear. They want sterile suburbia at 18th and Prairie. Now if there wern't any objections, then that is great, and a step forward in the right direction.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3589  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 4:32 PM
VivaLFuego's Avatar
VivaLFuego VivaLFuego is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dupont
Posts: 6,383
... did anyone actually attend the South Loop meeting, and if so, what was the tenor?




Also, I thought I'd share this interesting Reader article from 1997 (originally linked from the Hyde Park Progress blog) about the demolition of the Jackson Park leg of the Green Line.

https://securesite.chireader.com/cgi...r%20brazier%22
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3590  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 7:26 PM
Chicago Shawn's Avatar
Chicago Shawn Chicago Shawn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
... did anyone actually attend the South Loop meeting, and if so, what was the tenor?




Also, I thought I'd share this interesting Reader article from 1997 (originally linked from the Hyde Park Progress blog) about the demolition of the Jackson Park leg of the Green Line.

https://securesite.chireader.com/cgi...r%20brazier%22
Wow, great article. I have already read through the archives and related articles over at Chicago-L.org; but this one really angers me. I really hate Arthur Brazier, he just orchistarted his power to make people belive the El was the cause of all the problems in woodlawn. Now that the scapegoat is gone, and his vison of turning Woodlawn's 63rd Street into a auto-centric suburban community has never materialized, we still have a blighted strecth of vacant lots. Hmmm, guess the el wasn't the reason for 63rd's blight, in fact there are even fewer businesses now. I'm glad it stayed vacant, and I hope this Columbia Pointe garbage now proposed for the land is a victom of the sour housing market. If you think Lowenburg high-rises are bad, then you don't want to see his single family homes planned for 63rd Street.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3591  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2008, 3:00 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 12,837
Why is it that all of the stupid crap always happens on the south side of Chicago?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3592  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2008, 5:42 AM
Eventually...Chicago Eventually...Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 450
as i south looper myself, my impression of people's sentiment is not so much that the transit "creates" crime (which it most certainly does not) but that the south loop's actual location lends it self to co-mingling of the gentry and the ghetto. The roosevelt and wabash intersection serves as a point of entry to the downtown area for a lot of surrounding areas that are not what you would call "safe" communities (douglas park to the west and whatever you call the area between the south loop/Chinatown & Bridgeport/IIT). It is kind of similar to the weird element that congregates around clark and division or at least when cabrini was still there.

I do think that you can say in some instances the transit station attracts crime. Would the thugs be there if there was no station? No, they'd go someplace else. But again, the crime is indicative of the community and not any inherent characteristic of transit. When a person blames transit for crime in the area its like a hitter blaming the fence for being too far away as the reason for not hitting a home run.


^^^ TUP, i really do think the "gang" mentality permeates even the good south side communities. They are so intent on protecting their turf that they turn away any potential connection with something outside their dominion. For example, most of the north side communities have made very little noise regarding potential venues and housing for the olympic games, yet most of the south side communities see this as an opportunity to leverage their power. I've worked on a few south side building projects and the only ones that make it with aldermanic approval are the ones that have a particular street organization or block group's blessing. They end up exerting their control so absolutely that any real dollars that could come in and revamp an area look elsewhere for the "low hanging fruit".
__________________
"Eventually, I think Chicago will be the most beautiful great city left in the world"- Frank Lloyd Wright

"A Chicago man knows he has a mission to accomplish in the world."- Pierre De Coubertin
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3593  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2008, 9:31 PM
emathias's Avatar
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
I love how people who didn't even attend the meeting have made up mythical comments from nonexistent residents so they can complain about the NIMBYs.

I'm not aware of anything but feverish support for the idea of a South Loop Green Line station. The question to be resolved is whether it should be at 18th or at Cermak.
With the potential for density in that area, I'd be okay with one at each.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3594  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 1:16 PM
emathias's Avatar
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,106
Did anyone go to the August CTA Board meeting? Were there really no presentations, as reported on transitchicago.com?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3595  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2008, 3:05 AM
jjk1103 jjk1103 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 878
.......I rode the Blue Line in from O'Hare ......there didn't appear to be any slow zones ?! .......or was I just lucky that time ?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3596  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2008, 6:40 AM
VivaLFuego's Avatar
VivaLFuego VivaLFuego is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dupont
Posts: 6,383
^There are still a few slow zones between Addison and Jefferson Park, and I think the speed is still limited to 35mph around some of the special trackwork (e.g. crossovers). But the overall travel time from O'Hare to Clark/Lake is finally down to a respectable 41-44 minutes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3597  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2008, 6:45 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
atomic
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 12,420
What's the ideal travel time, if the tracks and signals are all in good condition and there are no accidents or bad weather? Will the new Blue Line railcars be able to reduce this time with better acceleration or possibly a higher speed?
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3598  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2008, 1:36 PM
jjk1103 jjk1103 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 878
.........once again the Red Line is being re-routed to elevated for the weekend ? .....what are they doing in the subway......and when will it all be finished ?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3599  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2008, 2:40 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjk1103 View Post
.........once again the Red Line is being re-routed to elevated for the weekend ? .....what are they doing in the subway......and when will it all be finished ?
The same thing they have already done in the subway from Clark/Division to Roosevelt, replacing the wooden half ties with concrete and installing dampened tie plates. They're scheduled to be done in the next month and a half IIRC.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3600  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2008, 2:52 PM
aaron38's Avatar
aaron38 aaron38 is offline
312
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Palatine
Posts: 3,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjk1103 View Post
.......I rode the Blue Line in from O'Hare ......there didn't appear to be any slow zones ?! .......or was I just lucky that time ?
Well they're working like crazy. I was on the Kennedy at 2am last night, and it was an army out on the tracks, at about Montrose.
__________________
All we ever see of stars are their old photographs
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:47 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.