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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 6:51 AM
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LoneStarMike LoneStarMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM View Post
Hobby had ~8.1M as of Nov

http://www.fly2houston.com/0/654773/0/1906D1937/

Hobby and Austin have been running about the same number of passengers over the last few years. Got me wondering what Love field count was, but number seems harder to find.
Thanks for those Houston links. Here's the link to Love Field's Statistics page.

http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/love...tatistics.html

Scroll down to passenger statistics. For November, adding up the CYTD enplanements and deplanements, Love Field's seen 7,309,711 passengers this year.

Here's the link to DFW's statistics:

http://www.dfwairport.com/stats/

Here's the link to San Antonio's statistics:

http://www.sanantonio.gov/aviation/statistics.asp

Here's the link to Austin's monthly activity reports. There's a lot more detail in them than what's in the airport's monthly press release summarizing the reports.

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/austinairport/activity.htm
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 2:12 PM
misterno misterno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbeiter View Post
This is no way to start out as a new member of a forum. First of all, Austin's metro area is well over 1 million, and second, it's not our fault that Houston was unable to take advantage of this - I guess it can't be the business leader in everything. The bottom line is that landing fees and operating costs are what really makes the difference, and obviously they shopped Houston first.

For example, Ryanair only flies to Charleroi Airport in Belgium and won't fly into Brussels' main airport. The reason budget airlines go to smaller cities and smaller airports is because of cost.
I have to admit, I was really mad when I read OP's posting. I am sorry for being rude in the beginning.

But when you say landing costs, please read the paragraph where I was talking about Ellington Field. Officials in Ellington Field which is 15 minute drive from downtown Houston, told me there is no landing fee but whoever wants to use the airport needs to build a terminal.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by texboy View Post
I still have a hard time believing that this will work out. Just bc a low cost airline (that btw is brand new) comes to town doesn't mean business will follow. And if they are banking on people driving from Houston and San Antonio....I think they might be mistaken. The people that are flying out of those cities are usually people of means. Loading they're own luggage on to a plane and Standing out in the elements to board the plane just isn't their cup of tea. And the fact that the guy specifically states that Austin has had a hard time attracting flights to Mexico should be a big ol' red flag to the city AND the airline, that this may be too huge of a risk. (Maybe more of a risk to the airline than the city though) What this sounds like to me imho, is the city of Austin trying to further justify the I in ABIA. As it stands I believe Austin has maybe a few seasonal flights to Mexico, and a couple of daily's to Mexico? Look, I'm not trying to insult Austin as some on here would take it that I was....Im looking at this from a business stand point, and something about this just doesn't smell right. I feel that the city and the Airline are going to be very disappointed with the results of this....now if it happens to work out...more power to Austin and I will stand corrected!
People will never drive 3 hours to catch a flight just because it is $200 cheaper. Personally, I will never do it.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 2:16 PM
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Yeah seriously, I wouldn't do it either. I doubt it would be that much cheaper anyway.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 2:18 PM
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I will be emailing the guys in Ellington Field so that they can join the conversation here. I am hoping they will.

I have never seen that much information about Texas airline industry in a forum before. This forum is great.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 4:36 PM
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ABIA as of end of October... from the airport itself.

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/austinair...ctov_oct07.htm

Passenger Activity: Total passenger traffic for January – October YTD was 7,412,852

Low estimate of 775K/month will put it plus or minus 9mil. With holiday traffic I expect 9.2mil.

They key is added flights... as austin has added about 3 per quarter. With 4 new flights starting early next year as well. We will hit 10mil within 2 years.

I'm not sure if Hobby's capacity or flight routes are increasing?

Fun figures but not really relevent to why Vivo is coming to Austin over some other place. - for the real reasons see my last post.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 6:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Trae View Post
Yeah seriously, I wouldn't do it either. I doubt it would be that much cheaper anyway.

Seriously, $10 per flight that they are claiming is impossible. If you add the "international flight" tax it will be very close to $100.

It is still at least $200-300 cheaper than Continental though.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by misterno View Post
People will never drive 3 hours to catch a flight just because it is $200 cheaper. Personally, I will never do it.
We would, that would be $400 in savings. I think a lot of people would. A family of 4 could save $800. My reservations are the low budget issues. Do I really want to get on some old plane pulled out of the bone yard maintained by a low budget airline?
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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 6:44 PM
DrewDizzle DrewDizzle is offline
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People will never drive 3 hours to catch a flight just because it is $200 cheaper.
I do it all the time. It costs me $40-50 to get there and I save $200? That's a no-brainer but, then again, I'm a poor, college student.

...but, instead of driving three hours you fly to Austin and still end up saving $100, would you?
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  #70  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 7:49 PM
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The US Mexican bilateral air agreement only allows 2 airlines from each country to fly between most cities in each country so Viva could only choose San Antonio or Austin as Dallas and Houston are full.

I wouldn't piss and moan on Continental to much, they offer more service to Mexico than any none Mexican airline and Houston has the largest INternational service in Texas (DFW is higher for domestic service)

Ellington field has a small terminal, CO Express used it for years with hop flights to IAH. IN Fact Houston was the only US city with intra city limit flights on fixed wing aircraft, for nearly Two decades.

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Last edited by Major AWACS; Jan 3, 2008 at 9:13 PM.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 9:03 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
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Those are some cool tidbits of knowledge AWACs! ...thanks!

I have driven to Houston just to get a direct international flight... and the flight wasn't any cheaper... driving does happen - particularly for the right market.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 2:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterno View Post
People will never drive 3 hours to catch a flight just because it is $200 cheaper. Personally, I will never do it.
I've done it many times - when paying for 3 or 4 tickets. Drove to Dallas twice to save just about that much per ticket.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 4:04 PM
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[QUOTE=Capt AWACS;3258078]The US Mexican bilateral air agreement only allows 2 airlines from each country to fly between most cities in each country so Viva could only choose San Antonio or Austin as Dallas and Houston are full.

What do you mean Houston is full? We have Ellington... And why is this aggrement enacted? We need more airlines between Mexico and USA, this is so clear and obvious.


Ellington field has a small terminal, CO Express used it for years with hop flights to IAH. IN Fact Houston was the only US city with intra city limit flights on fixed wing aircraft, for nearly Two decades.

Guys in Ellington told me that if any company approaches them with a promise of terminal they will not charge a dime per customer. They also said Viva did not approach them.

----------------------------------------------

Here is what I do not understand. The airline industry in Mexico is exploding. There are almost 15 airline companies in Mexico at this moment. Once they got familiar with the business and make profits, they will start looking new destinations to expand business and make more money. US is the first destination that comes into mind and Houston and LA are the 2 cities that they will want to fly first for obvious reasons.

First being the huge Latin American population who would use this service to get to Mexico or use Mexican airports to hop to other southern home countries.

Secondly, population of cities in Texas, California, Arizona and Nevada are literally exploding, this is just a small airline company should be looking for. Not a city like Detorit, losing population.

Third, you can fly from numerous tiny cities in the north and west to Mexico for dirt cheap whenever there is sale. Just an example is Sipirit Air and another one is Airtran and many others. They have sales as low as $5-$10 and even you add the tax, the round trip cost less than 100 bucks. There are no such airlines in the southern cities.

Fourth, caribbean countries are so close to both mexico and US, this will be an opportunity for airlines flying between US and mexico because it is so close to the route.

----------------------------------------
One day this vacuum will be filled. I still can not believe that there is an aggreement that restricts number of airlines flying between US and Mexico. It takes only 2 hrs and 15 minutes to fly from Houston to Cancun and yet there is only one or two airlines flying and cheapest is $500. This is crazy. This should not happen in a country praising itself all the time with free enterprise and competition. Something is definitely wrong in here.

Take a look at any vacation package deals from Dallas and Houston to Mexico and you will notice that Dallas is by far cheaper than Houston. I wonder why. Something is really wrong with airline services from Houston. What makes Dallas cheaper than us to a destination which Houston is closer.
Gotta hate continental
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 4:14 PM
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misterno - would you mind explaining your relationship with guys at Ellington? What level of people are we talking about here? I would think that most of airport operations are related to non-civilian and NASA related management, so again, I'm curious who runs the airport?

I'm not even sure if they have ground control for private aircraft at Ellington. Is ground control for private aircraft coming from a regional control center or is Ellington handling it?

Are they actively looking to expand Ellington into public commercial operations or is it more if someone approaches them they would consider it?

What are the noise issues concerning the nearby subdivisions?

Found the answer to most of the above questions:

http://www.fly2houston.com/EllingtonMasterPlan

Last edited by JAM; Jan 4, 2008 at 4:25 PM. Reason: master plan
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  #75  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 7:04 PM
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ABIA to Expand...

And this does not include the budget terminal and the future, 21-gate south terminal. Way, way down the road, plans could call for two mid-field concourses. Each capable of being expanded to 20+ gates.


THE NEAL SPELCE AUSTIN LETTER
Volume 29, Number 38
Friday, January 4, 2008


For the first time since the new Austin-Bergstrom International Airport (ABIA) opened for passengers 5/23/99, a major terminal expansion will begin in 2008.

Coming off a year when a record number of passengers crammed into ABIA, look for airport officials to seek permission from the Austin City Council in February to add from 6 to 9 gates to the existing 25 gates at the Barbara Jordan Terminal…
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Austin (City): 947,890 +19.93% - '10-'16 | Austin MSA (5 counties): 2,056,405 +19.82% - '10-'16
San Antonio (City): 1,492,510 +12.44% - '10-'16 | San Antonio MSA (8 counties): 2,429,609 +13.40% - '10-'16
AUS-SAT "CSA" (13 counties): 4,486,014 +16.25% - '10-'16 | *SRC: US Census*
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  #76  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 7:25 PM
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That is great news, I knew it wouldn't be too long before we saw an expansion.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 7:33 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
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Great news! According to the expansion plan - 9MM/yr passengers was the magic number for this expansion. 6-9 gates is more that what was in plan [I believe originally 5]. I wonder if this all will be on the east side of Barbara Jordan still? seems a little tight on that east runway... or maybe it means the end of go-cart operation?

I believe the next exansion - construction of the south terminal happens around 12 or 13MM... with some intermediary steps like more parking-adding height to the parking garage, apron improvements, etc. South Terminal design is probably 8 or so years away... 10 or so years from existing.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 8:59 PM
misterno misterno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM View Post
misterno - would you mind explaining your relationship with guys at Ellington? What level of people are we talking about here? I would think that most of airport operations are related to non-civilian and NASA related management, so again, I'm curious who runs the airport?

I'm not even sure if they have ground control for private aircraft at Ellington. Is ground control for private aircraft coming from a regional control center or is Ellington handling it?

Are they actively looking to expand Ellington into public commercial operations or is it more if someone approaches them they would consider it?

What are the noise issues concerning the nearby subdivisions?

Found the answer to most of the above questions:

http://www.fly2houston.com/EllingtonMasterPlan

JAM

Thanks for the link. I found the website for Ellington Field and emailed them my question as to if Viva ever approached them. That is how I got to know them. This correspondence happened last week.

His title is Airport Operations Supervisor and his email extension is cityofhouston.net. If you need more info about him I can PM you.

it is more like if someone approaches them they would consider it. This is what I understood from their emails. But what is surprising was, Viva never approached them. Also, they did not want to comment on my remarks about Continental's influence on Houston area airports.

Here is an excerpt from his email

"Any company that would like to build a facility at Ellington has to
lease the land and build a facility of a certain dollar value based upon the
type of aviation operation they are licensed to conduct. A Passenger
Facility Charge (PFC) is not charged at EFD at this time and I know of no plans to do so.

Not all US passenger airports charge a PFC. For example, Hobby charges
and IAH does not. A PFC is one option an airport can use to generate money
for capital projects. The PFC program is managed by the FAA and involves a
comprehensive application process and oversight by the FAA. A complete
description of the PFC program can be found on the FAA web site
(www.faa.gov).

Hope that answers your questions."




Here is an earlier email he sent to me

" I received your inquiry from xxxxxxx and
> would be happy to help. I
> have not heard from Vivaaerobus or any other
> commercial airline about
> starting scheduled service to/from Ellington Field.
> We are certificated by
> the FAA to be used by commercial airlines, however
> we are not negotiating
> with any air carriers at this time but we are
> certainly open for
> discussions.
>
> As far as the cost structure, Ellington has the
> lowest rates of the three
> airports. However, we do not have the
> infrastructure required for extensive
> airline service such as terminal buildings, security
> screening and baggage
> services. These issues would need to be addressed
> prior to starting any
> airline service.
>
>
>
> I hope I have answered your questions. Please let
> me know if I can do
> anything else to help"
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  #79  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2008, 12:12 AM
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Can anyone explain to me why a shuttle from Ellington Field to IAH was ever successful? Traffic has never been bad enough that an hour or 2 hour drive (at the very, very worst) would not be better than a flight.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2008, 3:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbeiter View Post
Can anyone explain to me why a shuttle from Ellington Field to IAH was ever successful? Traffic has never been bad enough that an hour or 2 hour drive (at the very, very worst) would not be better than a flight.
While they had service, I lived next to Ellington. Lots of people live down that way. Saves a 50 mile drive to IAH each way, parking was free, and it was easy to check-in. I loved it. Many people I knew that lived /worked down that way used the facility. Imagine being able to jump on a plane w/o struggling thru traffic, and there was no extra charge for the service, plus CO gave you 500 miles for using it. AND, you got a nice ariel tour of Houston. Handling bags was a breeze, other wise, once you're up at IAH, you jump on a shuttle 5 miles from your gate, and drag luggage the whole way. Get to Ellington, drop and forget your luggage.
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