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  #81  
Old Posted May 11, 2007, 3:21 AM
honte honte is offline
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^ Wow, I didn't know there was such a "compaction" from up there. Iteresting how small the whole place looks.
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  #82  
Old Posted May 11, 2007, 3:24 AM
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^ that "compaction" effect is mostly from the 10x optical zoom on my camera. with the naked eye, evanston looks a great deal further away.


here's an unzoomed pic from my roof deck:

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  #83  
Old Posted May 11, 2007, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by trvlr70 View Post
This is true. I've actually heard locals describe Clayton as St. Louis' "white downtown" as terrible as that is. It directly competes with downtown St. Louis and as far as corporate presence is concerned, well, it's winning.
I don't want to hijack this thread, but I've never in my life heard Clayton referred to as St. Louis' "white downtown". St. Louis' "Second Downtown", yes, but "white downtown" - no. I think you are making that up. On any given day Clayton is just as "colorful" as downtown St. Louis - in an elite sort of way. I have many pictures to prove it, so please don't spread garbage like that.

Also, downtown Clayton is not winning as far as large corporate presence either. Large corporate offices are spread almost evenly in the largest local office markets. Overall, in total corporate offices, downtown St. Louis trounces Clayton.

For the record, downtown St. Louis has three of the region's F500 corporations, while Clayton only has one. Downtown St. Louis and Clayton each has four F1000 firms.

On the other hand, the Chesterfield Valley/West County submarket has four F500 firms and three F1000.

Clayton has grown into a major financial center in the region, but most of the large accounting, law, architectural, food, energy, banking, and PR firms - amongst others - are still downtown.
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Last edited by Arch City; May 11, 2007 at 5:18 PM.
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  #84  
Old Posted May 15, 2007, 3:23 PM
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thanks for those clarifications arch city.

there are similarities between clayton and evanston, but there are also differences, the largest being that clayton is a major office market within its metropolitan region whereas evanston is not. i think that was the only thing people were trying to say by bringing up clayton so let's please have this be the last post about clayton in this thread.

back to fountain square tower.
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  #85  
Old Posted May 17, 2007, 2:20 PM
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now things are just getting silly. a second development team is now proposing a 35 story mixed-use tower for the south end of the fountain square block overlooking the square itself, and there is talk that they may be talking with focus/klutznick about coordination of the two projects. this will be interesting to watch.

read all about it at evanstonnow.com: http://www.evanstonnow.com/node/2348
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 17, 2007 at 2:27 PM.
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  #86  
Old Posted May 17, 2007, 2:49 PM
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^^^^Wow that is unbelievable......a major concern of mine is that could be construed as "too much too soon" and actually act to catalyse resistance

The article mentioned a 100 mill $ short fall in pension for police & fire...did not realize this

This should be played up by the developers as I am sure it will
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  #87  
Old Posted May 17, 2007, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by forumly_chgoman View Post
a major concern of mine is that could be construed as "too much too soon" and actually act to catalyse resistance
absolutely. i can already hear the NIMBY cries of "overkill". and they may be right, a 49 story tower and a 35 story tower all on this relatively small triangular block may be too much denisty. more specifics are needed before i can begin to form an opinion. my biggest concern is the hahn building. the evanstonnow article said that it would be preserved, but i'm not understanding exactly how that will work. it sounds suspiciously like a facedectomy.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 17, 2007 at 5:11 PM.
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  #88  
Old Posted May 18, 2007, 4:03 PM
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One thing that irked me, the results of a survey posted at Evanstonnow.com......less than 5% of residents of the new condo developments in downtown Evanston are car-free. Over 20% of households of these new 'urban', high-density developments with great transit access have 2 cars or more.

I mean obviously it's their choice, but it means we shouldn't kid ourselves about Evanston's newfound urbanity and rennaisance of pedestrian and transit culture...
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  #89  
Old Posted May 18, 2007, 4:19 PM
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^ you have to remember that car ownership is a mental neccessity for so many people in this country, even if they only use it once a month. car-culture has been so ingrained into our larger culture that being without a car is a frightening prospect for many americans.

as for the top 20% with two or more cars, well, a lot of these people buying condos in evanston are wealthy north shore empty nesters, and if they buy a unit that comes with two deeded spots down in the garage, well, they got fill 'em up with something. i wouldn't be surprised if 20% of the condo purchasers in new downtown chicago highrises didn't own two or more cars as well. rich people love to accumulate shit, even when that shit doesn't make any practical sense.

as for the second part of your assesment, downtown evasnton is becoming more urban and is seeing more ped activity whether or not you choose to believe it because of some car ownership stats. i've worked in downtown e-town everyday for the past 11 years, and i grew up in neighboring wilmette so downtown evanston has always been a place i've been very familair with. and during my days i've seen the place transformed from a sick dog limping on its last leg to a healthy, vibrant suburban downtown, quite possibly the best in all of chicagoland.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 18, 2007 at 4:31 PM.
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  #90  
Old Posted May 18, 2007, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
One thing that irked me, the results of a survey posted at Evanstonnow.com......less than 5% of residents of the new condo developments in downtown Evanston are car-free. Over 20% of households of these new 'urban', high-density developments with great transit access have 2 cars or more.

I mean obviously it's their choice, but it means we shouldn't kid ourselves about Evanston's newfound urbanity and rennaisance of pedestrian and transit culture...
Unfortunately, the options to get out from Evanston to the other areas of the metro are limited and its just a fact that most people that live in these buildings are going to snub their noses at the bus. But the EL or Metra are not options to travel to the NW suburbs. Heck driving to O'Hare is probably better than having to hope on the Red/Purple line and transfer. Chicagoland really needs to improve the rail connections between certain regions of the metro if there is any hope of reducing car traffic. Even then, as Steely suggests there still needs to be a drastic change in mindset.
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  #91  
Old Posted May 18, 2007, 5:40 PM
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as for the second part of your assesment, downtown evasnton is becoming more urban and is seeing more ped activity whether or not you choose to believe it because of some car ownership stats.
True, and fair enough: I think the same is true of many downtowns throughout the country; there is more activity, more vibrancy; hard to quantify, but its definitely there, and its definitely true in Evanston with some of the new retail and entertainment developments like the downtown theatre. More people seem to be spending more of their money at downtown stores nationwide. This is good, and its a necessary first step.

But I guess my broader point is, in terms of actual sustainaible development, if people are still driving/parking through all of this, the actual benefit is minor (perhaps a few less strip malls on greenfields, but no significant reduction in oil consumption or relative improvement in air quality); that is, the progress is illusory. So we probably don't really disagree; I definitely agree that alot of peope have this mental block wherein they take for granted that they need to own a car even if it would be much more economic for them to simply joing carsharing or rent when they need one. Let's hope that more downtown living and more downtown shopping will glean people to the notion that hey, you can actually survive for weeks/months/years at a time without needing to own a car.
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  #92  
Old Posted May 18, 2007, 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
But I guess my broader point is, in terms of actual sustainaible development, if people are still driving/parking through all of this, the actual benefit is minor (perhaps a few less strip malls on greenfields, but no significant reduction in oil consumption or relative improvement in air quality); that is, the progress is illusory. So we probably don't really disagree;
actually, we really do disagree. the progress may not be total, but it is hardly illusory. convincing people to live in a dense urban fashion does not have the elimination of all automobile use as its lone goal. the fact is that people buying condos in downtown evanston may indeed own cars, but they are most certainly not using them to access things within downtown evanston. they might use their car to get to their job up on lake cook road. they might use their car to visit their friends up in highland park. they might use their car to visit their relatives in bloomingdale and geneva. they might use their car to make a run out to ikea. etc. what they are not doing though is using their car on an everday basis within downtown evanston itself, so the benefits to a more vibrant, more urban, more pedestrian-oriented town center are very tangible and real.

BUT, we're way off topic of fountain square tower. if there is anything further to discuss about this topic, let's start a new thread.
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  #93  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 12:22 AM
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here's are first look at the proposed 2nd tower on the fountian square block. it would stand 36 stories tall.

read the evanstonnow.com story for details: http://www.evanstonnow.com/node/2377

would someone from emporis please add this one to the database so that i can add it to page 1 of the rundown?

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  #94  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
here's are first look at the proposed 2nd tower on the fountian square block. it would stand 36 stories tall.

read the evanstonnow.com story for details: http://www.evanstonnow.com/node/2377

would someone from emporis please add this one to the database so that i can add it to page 1 of the rundown?

So is the first proposal going right behind that? I'm a bit confused.
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  #95  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 1:03 AM
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I'm a bit confused.
you're not the only one. as of right now, i guess we could consider this second proposal as a competing proposal, as in, if this get approved, the other one won't. BUT, the developers of this 2nd tower have stated that they've talked with focus/klutznik about a collaboration. this is all very up in the air kinda stuff right now, we'll have to wait and see how everything pans out.

but to answer your question, yes, this 2nd tower is south of, or in front of, the focus/klutznik 49 story proposal on the same fountain sqaure block.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 24, 2007 at 1:08 AM.
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  #96  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 1:04 AM
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Oh wow, now that is a solid proposal! I really like the design! Its like a Flatiron building for the 21st century. The pillars at the bottom and the crown are both just phenominal. I hope these both get built, but I would rather have this second one than the first proposal.

I dunno Steely, the Evanston skyline might actually catch up with Milwaukee at this rate.
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  #97  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 6:03 AM
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* moderator edit *

do not copy and paste anything from the evanstonnow.com website. you can link to items there, but we've been asked by the site owner not to post their content on this forum.

- steely
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________





Yeah it weird.....I wonder if this is competing or complimentart

also I wonder what the height would be......I am guessing somewhee around 380 -- 400 ft

Last edited by Steely Dan; May 24, 2007 at 2:04 PM.
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  #98  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 1:07 PM
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My guess is the first proposal is a red herring and this is what they really want to build on that property.
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  #99  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 2:03 PM
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My guess is the first proposal is a red herring and this is what they really want to build on that property.
who is "they"? the two proposals come from competing development interests with different ownership options for different parcels of land on the block in question.
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  #100  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 2:18 PM
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Regarding the second proposal, if you look at the elevation drawing in the evanstonnow.com article, the support columns for the tower go right through the Hahn building.
Which would mean the Hahn building would be completely 'facademized', right?
Whereas in the first proposal it's left intact?
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